Increase AH in this battery or bad idea?

E-driver_

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So I am pretty new to understanding batteries.

The battery below is 48Volt11,6AH, which I think is a bit low. Is it possible to to increase the AH on this battery by increasing the amount of cells and make it longer?

Would this be difficult to do for a noob? Or perhaps not as hard as making a battery from scratch? Would I have to change the bms or could I use the same BMS?

Pictures look like below:
 

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Also could someone tell me if it is correct that this is the BMS below? And what are those other two green cards?
 

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E-driver_ said:
The battery below is 48Volt11,6AH, which I think is a bit low.
Depends on the range you need. Seems about average or slightly towards low end of average for commodity ebikes.


E-driver_ said:
Is it possible to to increase the AH on this battery by increasing the amount of cells and make it longer?

Would this be difficult to do for a noob? Or perhaps not as hard as making a battery from scratch? Would I have to change the bms or could I use the same BMS?
Easiest and likely safest for a noob would be to parallel connect a similar battery to effectively double the Ah.
 
99t4 said:
Easiest and likely safest for a noob would be to parallel connect a similar battery to effectively double the Ah.

When connecting 'two 48 volt batteries. Is it possible to then up the voltage to 96 volt? Or is it only possible to increase the Amper Hours?

And does anyone know a good video or manual for doing this?
 
E-driver_ said:
99t4 said:
Easiest and likely safest for a noob would be to parallel connect a similar battery to effectively double the Ah.

When connecting 'two 48 volt batteries. Is it possible to then up the voltage to 96 volt? Or is it only possible to increase the Amper Hours?
Depends how you connect them. Connect them serially for 96v. Connect them in parallel for 48v, with the sum of their Ah.

Examples. Let's say you had two of your previously described 48Volt11,6AH battery:

Wired in serial results in 98v 11,6Ah battery.

Wired in parallel results in 48V 23,2Ah battery.
 
99t4 said:
E-driver_ said:
99t4 said:
Easiest and likely safest for a noob would be to parallel connect a similar battery to effectively double the Ah.

When connecting 'two 48 volt batteries. Is it possible to then up the voltage to 96 volt? Or is it only possible to increase the Amper Hours?
Depends how you connect them. Connect them serially for 96v. Connect them in parallel for 48v, with the sum of their Ah.

Examples. Let's say you had two of your previously described 48Volt11,6AH battery:

Wired in serial results in 98v 11,6Ah battery.

Wired in parallel results in 48V 23,2Ah battery.

Hmm ok. Why does only the amp hours increase but not the voltage and the other way around? It is not possible to up them both? So for example 96volt 23AH, not possible?

The videos I've seen describing using two batteries often seem to connect them both to an adapter that ups the Amp Hours but not the voltage.

Also, if anyone could link a video of this connecting of two batteries on youtube it would be very helpful.
 
E-driver_ said:
Why does only the amp hours increase but not the voltage and the other way around?
Current (A) and capacity (Ah) add in parallel.
Voltage (V) adds in series.

You can't series *and* parallel the same connections at the same time (shorts everything out if you do), so you can't add both A/Ah *and* V together; you have to pick one.


It is not possible to up them both? So for example 96volt 23AH, not possible?
Yes, using four batteries of the original size, instead of two.

Parallel the first pair to double the A/Ah of that pair.

Parallel the second pair (only to each other, not the first pair) to double the A/Ah of that pair.

Series the two paralleled pairs to then double the voltage of the whole battery.
 
E-driver_ said:
Hmm ok. Why does only the amp hours increase but not the voltage and the other way around? It is not possible to up them both? So for example 96volt 23AH, not possible?

4P x 2.9Ah = 11.6Ah
13S x 3.7V = 48.1V

13 cells in series - 4 cells in parallel = 52 cells
(48.1V - 11.6Ah)

26 cells in series - 8 cells in parallel = 208 cells
(96.2V - 23.2Ah)

You would need four of those 52 cell batteries with two in series and two in parallel to achieve: 96.2V - 23.2Ah
 
Just use the battery and when battery is used up get the battery you want. You can't double your voltage and double your ah. You would need four- 48v 11.4ah batteries for that reread and see Emake got it first.
 
amberwolf said:
E-driver_ said:
Why does only the amp hours increase but not the voltage and the other way around?
Current (A) and capacity (Ah) add in parallel.

Aa great. How do I add two of these in parallell to up the amp? I think I will try that option first.

Is there an easy way to do this and a guide/video somewhere specifically for these types of li-ion-48 volt-batteries with xt60-connectors?

Often it seems people use an adapter for when they do this ? Is that necessary?

I've heard it can be fire otherwise :) . And that the adapter takes care of this somehow.
 
I'm sorry my friend but if you don't know how well the two batteries get along. This is where you make fire. By mixing a strong and a weak battery together. As they need to be equal.
To be safe just use that battery till it dies. And then get the battery you want with all new name brand matching cell that will easily balance.
What brand is the battery you got ? Link ?
 
999zip999 said:
I'm sorry my friend but if you don't know how well the two batteries get along. This is where you make fire. By mixing a strong and a weak battery together. As they need to be equal.
To be safe just use that battery till it dies. And then get the battery you want with all new name brand matching cell that will easily balance.
What brand is the battery you got ? Link ?

This is not what I am asking. My question was about putting batteries in series and in parallell. Please let the other people in the thread answer if you cannot submit an answer to this question.

This question was directed at Amberwolf or the other person that seems to be knowledgeable on the subject.
 
E-driver_ said:
How do I add two of these in parallell to up the amp? I think I will try that option first.

Is there an easy way to do this and a guide/video somewhere specifically for these types of li-ion-48 volt-batteries with xt60-connectors?

Often it seems people use an adapter for when they do this ? Is that necessary?

I've heard it can be fire otherwise :) . And that the adapter takes care of this somehow.
IMO , 999zip999 (like others) are basically saying it's a "bad idea". It would take a lengthy post to explain all the things that could go wrong as far as it not being a good marriage that you think will workout. Yes, it's possible, but the odds don't favor the outcome (bad idea).

Others, including Aw could tell you how to go about doing it, but would not want to be held responsible for encouraging you to go ahead with your intent. The odds are just as great or greater that it's a "bad idea". That's why you won't find a youtube and doubt that any exists or will ever exist explaining how to go about doing what you are so intent on doing.

Well, you probably think, "Geese what good is this battery forum when not one person thinks it's a good idea or is willing to take the time to tell me what i need to know to accomplish the task."
 
ebuilder said:
Agree with Mark and the others. Wouldn't do it OP. Bad idea as stated.

I think when we work with Li-Ion batteries, there has to be a great deal of care to prevent the unthinkable which has ruined people's lives. Too many stories. Want to stay as far away from that scenario as possible. None of this is worth anything without our personal safety and safety of loved ones.

Aha I see. I thought perhaps my question was not understood. But now I realise it was just good intent from forum members so I not hurt myself.

Now.. :) I am going to build an ebike battery going forward though. But perhaps this is not as risky as doing what I want to do in this thread? :)

So since I am going to build a battery this autumn I am just gathering information on how to do it. So if people want to tell me worst case scenarios and so on that is very much appreciated. Since I now have a lot of cells lying around that I have ordered from China.

What would you advise me to do to make my battery buildup as safe as possible? Just read the battery dummy here on the forum so I know it inside and out? And then proceed with caution?

I have nickel strips, bms, fuses, solder station for battery building and so on. Any other thread here on the forum that is good to read where someone builds a safe and very good battery?
 
E-driver_ said:
Since I now have a lot of cells lying around that I have ordered from China.

What would you advise me to do to make my battery buildup as safe as possible?
My first advice would probably be to not use those cells, but you'd need to post details of those cells, including a link to the place they were bought from (the actual sales page you used if possible) to know if they are any good or not (I'd venture that most of them are not, and the less they cost the less likely they are to be any good, since a lot of literal recycled garbage cells are resold either as new or as "good used"...and you literally cannot know if the cells you got are even what you ordered in many cases).
 
amberwolf said:
E-driver_ said:
Since I now have a lot of cells lying around that I have ordered from China.

What would you advise me to do to make my battery buildup as safe as possible?
My first advice would probably be to not use those cells, but you'd need to post details of those cells, including a link to the place they were bought from (the actual sales page you used if possible) to know if they are any good or not (I'd venture that most of them are not, and the less they cost the less likely they are to be any good, since a lot of literal recycled garbage cells are resold either as new or as "good used"...and you literally cannot know if the cells you got are even what you ordered in many cases).

Aa ok.

I am thinking about getting some of these below. Please let me know if they are any good. I think the seller has a good reputation.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000189097525.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004225066024.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004500185555.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32835679557.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt

I am leaning toward the one in the last link but don't know if that is smart.

Please give me some advice ya'all gringos and battery friends.
 
Nobody knows? Is this forum not about battery technology?

Well don't give me advice then. Just tell me which cells YOU would have bought out of these.
 
DIY lithium battery build by Micah Toll
I don't know how to spell his name. But buy this book.
And buy name brand cells and not that no name JUNK. Or Fire cells
Do you have a spot welder ? Yes answer this question.
 
999zip999 said:
DIY lithium battery build by Micah Toll
I don't know how to spell his name. But buy this book.
And buy name brand cells and not that no name JUNK. Or Fire cells
Do you have a spot welder ? Yes answer this question.

Yes I have a spot welder. Could you show me a link to some good cells? I will not see it as advice. Just let me know which cells you would have bought for yourself. I will not take it as advice.
 
"CHEAP NEW ORIGINAL 18650 21700 BATTERY CELLS, POUCHES AND PACKS - Endless Sphere" https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608
This guy is in your neck of the woods
Don't buy cells ripped out of a pack with small pin holes in the top don't buy cells that have cut tabs don't buy pouch cells that have re-welded laser welds on tabs.
Buy new cells from same batch
Buy a high amp cell less resistance for discharge band charging and at higher rate of charge.
I can charge my 72v 20ah battery in one hour.
 
999zip999 said:
It depends on the motor and controller. They I can give you options. And what space.
My brother lives in Norway above the Arctic circle

I am close to that region as well.
 
999zip999 said:
Buy a high amp cell less resistance for discharge band charging and at higher rate of charge.
I can charge my 72v 20ah battery in one hour.

Aa cool. What cells are in that battery?
 
amberwolf said:
E-driver_ said:
Why does only the amp hours increase but not the voltage and the other way around?
Current (A) and capacity (Ah) add in parallel.
Voltage (V) adds in series.

You can't series *and* parallel the same connections at the same time (shorts everything out if you do), so you can't add both A/Ah *and* V together; you have to pick one.


It is not possible to up them both? So for example 96volt 23AH, not possible?
Yes, using four batteries of the original size, instead of two.

Parallel the first pair to double the A/Ah of that pair.

Parallel the second pair (only to each other, not the first pair) to double the A/Ah of that pair.

Series the two paralleled pairs to then double the voltage of the whole battery.

So connected in series would give for example two 36volt batteries*2. So therefore 72 volt correct?

Is this type of wiring more safe to do than doing a parallell-connection without an adapter in the middle?

I saw this guy on youtube that connected two drill batteries in series like the picture below shows. Can this be safely done without an adapter like he does it in the picture? I mean in series then and not in parallell.

It is the parallell-connection that can be dangerous without a amper-adapter in the middle, correct?

Or can the series-connection be dangerous/explosive as well?
 

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