AliExpress 90ah pouch cells legit?

A few red flags...
#1: in the item description, "there is no QR code on the battery's surface." Unmarked, unlabeled battery?
#2: says its an SK87.5 battery. Google it, I found a bluetooth keyboard.
#3: internal resistance of 0.8 milliohm. Nope. Either that's a typo, and they meant 0.8ohms which is still quite high. Or the battery has an internal resistance comparable to a solid piece of copper, lol.

Probably shouldn't buy batteries that don't have a spec sheet available.
 
I’m still learning, but what stands out to me is the brand name is “NoEnName_Null”. That and that store has been up since 2016 and they only have under 1000 followers.
 
999zip999 said:
Why can't you find something in USA. Mayy like battery hookup or other. See if they can help you. Why 90ah for what ?

I've been checking battery hookup, battery clearing house and jag35 ( anymore websites ri check out?) looking for some, I need cells for a motorcycle build, that's why I need a high capacity and current
 
Hillhater said:
TysonScott said:
. …..What do you guys think about these? should I expect claimed specs or is it a scam? price seems good but still reasonable.
If you are at all tempted,…
Ask for a sample (or buyone) and test it yourself !
Mabye i should ask them if I can buy one, I think that was a pack of 20
 
TysonScott said:
I found these cells and they claim 3.6v 90ah 6c continuous and 12c peak, at a affordable price with free shipping. What do you guys think about these? should I expect claimed specs or is it a scam? price seems good but still reasonable.
This image
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S92f55700a3524fc4af2489c2ae731edfl.jpg
S92f55700a3524fc4af2489c2ae731edfl[1].jpg
shows a cell that appears to have a similar volume to the 20Ah EIG C020 NMC cells I'm using. Despite my cells being perhaps a 15-year-old design, I cannot imagine they've improved capacity capabilities enough to get 90Ah out of that same space. So I must be misjudging the size; perhaps they are a lot thicker.

They give a weight of 1.16kg, while the EIG cell is only 428g, so it's three times the weight, which implies at least three times the capacity.

I don't see any dimensions, though, so can't compare those for more confirmation, and there is nothing in any of the images that can be used as a reliable scale.

The C-ratings sound perfectly plausible for a cell this size and low resistance....

The resistance itself...dunno. The EIG cells are rated at <3milliohm, but have very similar C-rates, I would expect higher C-rates for a cell with less than 1/3 the resistance.



The big problem most of the cells people buy from typical sellers is the cells have a wide spread of characteristics, so the resulting pack built from them has significant variation between each seriesed cell (or cell group), and that means they don't perform the same as each other, so they don't stay balanced over time without a device (BMS, etc) to do that at least periodically. They also don't sag in voltage under discharge equally, so the lowest-capability ones will cause the system to cutout or underperform sooner than the rest.

Buying a single cell (or even a couple) won't tell you anything about that part, even if the individual cell(s) test great, and within their specified limits. You'd have to have at least enough of them to build your pack from, and test them all for behavior and characteristics under sufficient load to be similar to your conditions, to know for sure that they'd behave as required.
 
amberwolf said:
TysonScott said:
I found these cells and they claim 3.6v 90ah 6c continuous and 12c peak, at a affordable price with free shipping. What do you guys think about these? should I expect claimed specs or is it a scam? price seems good but still reasonable.
This image
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S92f55700a3524fc4af2489c2ae731edfl.jpg
S92f55700a3524fc4af2489c2ae731edfl[1].jpg
shows a cell that appears to have a similar volume to the 20Ah EIG C020 NMC cells I'm using. Despite my cells being perhaps a 15-year-old design, I cannot imagine they've improved capacity capabilities enough to get 90Ah out of that same space. So I must be misjudging the size; perhaps they are a lot thicker.

They give a weight of 1.16kg, while the EIG cell is only 428g, so it's three times the weight, which implies at least three times the capacity.

I don't see any dimensions, though, so can't compare those for more confirmation, and there is nothing in any of the images that can be used as a reliable scale.

The C-ratings sound perfectly plausible for a cell this size and low resistance....

The resistance itself...dunno. The EIG cells are rated at <3milliohm, but have very similar C-rates, I would expect higher C-rates for a cell with less than 1/3 the resistance.



The big problem most of the cells people buy from typical sellers is the cells have a wide spread of characteristics, so the resulting pack built from them has significant variation between each seriesed cell (or cell group), and that means they don't perform the same as each other, so they don't stay balanced over time without a device (BMS, etc) to do that at least periodically. They also don't sag in voltage under discharge equally, so the lowest-capability ones will cause the system to cutout or underperform sooner than the rest.

Buying a single cell (or even a couple) won't tell you anything about that part, even if the individual cell(s) test great, and within their specified limits. You'd have to have at least enough of them to build your pack from, and test them all for behavior and characteristics under sufficient load to be similar to your conditions, to know for sure that they'd behave as required.

thank you for such a great answer, in the first image they give the dimensions of 12.5x128x365mm so pretty big
 
TysonScott said:
thank you for such a great answer, in the first image they give the dimensions of 12.5x128x365mm so pretty big
I missed that. :oops:

The EIG is 196x127x7, whcih is a volume of 174244mm cubed.

12.5x128x365 is a volume of 584000, which is about 3.3x the volume, so it's possible these things could actually meet the ratings they give. I wouldn't really expect it, but it's at least within reason.

Another question is, how old are these cells? How long have they been sitting (and at what voltage, since they could come to you at a different voltage if they are recharged before shipping, or discharged before shipping, etc)?

That will determine their remaining lifespan (and will affect their actual performance), since just by existing they degrade over time, and the higher the charge on them over that time, the faster that happens.

Or if they were ever allowed to drop below their safe limit, etc.

But those are questions you will probable never be able to get a trustworthy answer to (if you can get one at all), and you cannot verify any answer you do get.
 
Hi,
just wondered if you bought them, and if so do they live up to the description...?
I'm looking to upgrading from NCM prism to pouch cells to save space and get higher C.
 
TysonScott said:
999zip999 said:
Why can't you find something in USA. Mayy like battery hookup or other. See if they can help you. Why 90ah for what ?

I've been checking battery hookup, battery clearing house and jag35 ( anymore websites ri check out?) looking for some, I need cells for a motorcycle build, that's why I need a high capacity and current

You want pouch cells? Buy from Art at GreenTecHybrid. tell him JP sent you. He sells 1 bad cell modules for super cheap, of cells that destroy most all others.

I know this post is a little old, but I promise you he still has them... He will always have them. Tell mih JP reccomended Greetech.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=114167&p=1688256&hilit=chevy+volt+modules+bad+cell#p1688256


JAG35 is a total rippoff and a scourge on the community, DO NO buy from Jehu, too many been ripped off before. junk. BHU is good. BCH is good. JAG is a ripoff and a trash seller who doesnt care if the buyer is burned.
 
harrisonpatm said:
A few red flags...
#1: in the item description, "there is no QR code on the battery's surface." Unmarked, unlabeled battery?
#2: says its an SK87.5 battery. Google it, I found a bluetooth keyboard.
#3: internal resistance of 0.8 milliohm. Nope. Either that's a typo, and they meant 0.8ohms which is still quite high. Or the battery has an internal resistance comparable to a solid piece of copper, lol.

Probably shouldn't buy batteries that don't have a spec sheet available.

It is. It is 0.0008 ohm... also known as 0.8 mOh ( milliohm, or point eight milliohm.. ). Lower even. I measured 0.7 milliohm on a cycle. I got the spec sheet somewhere, saved in my PM.


Yes, you can see in the pic these cells are over a foot long.

NO, a solid piece of short copper is much lower... a fuse is higher R ( resistance) even ( bottle necked copper)... like 0.0002Ohm for a 400A ANL. 200A ANL is like 0.0003 Ohm... This cell is much higher than that... Even when I parallel my 1mOh cells, for 0.0005mOh series ESR... a fuse is lower and a piece of copper is lower than that.

0.0005mOh is 2x, 1mOh cells in parallel . Does 120kW puuurty easy in this config for hundereds of thousand of miles. Chevy.

3mOh for that EIG 20Ah is trash IMO, weak and hot. Amberwolf.. you know my cells that I use are all 1/3 of that at 1mOh.

You are comparing 2012 cells to 2022 cells with the EIG 20 aH cell.

I have two here to test . I am running the logs at ~0.5C cause 40A is all my data logger can log. I got a few huge SK cells in to test. A 75aH, a 55aH, and a 60aH. All from similar looking sellers. All SK, with SK bar codes and +/- notation. Test takes 2 1/2 hrs per 1/2 cycle.. so like 4-5 hrs for a full cycle .


Funny thing is.. they all read right round there... whether its a 60Ah, 55aH, ( that I have one of) or 75ah ( that I have one of)... Even though I know my dataloggers Wheatstone bridge Kelvin measurement is 16 bit resolution and can handle another decimal place.

All my cells came labeled.... these all have an " SK" in the number somewhere. This is what they looked like when they arrived. I will let yall know bout the test result.
 

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Hillhater said:
If you are at all tempted,…
Ask for a sample (or buyone) and test it yourself !

Hell Yeah Brutha frm another motha!!! You gotz them ideaz!

Now if you could just be less of an effin Hater all the ti... Oh nevermind.


Anyway, yeah this cell is huge. lol. Rule and a 200A BMS in the pic for scale.
317842397_1629781307478563_5217300219256200639_n.jpg318365004_860963455087705_6455382762427225292_n.jpg

On another note.. yall ever have United States Customs and Border Control try to open one of the pouch cells you have been sent to test? Completely destroy, cut open, and gut, the box, the mailer, the cell, and then wrap it up in Borders Security green tape, pack her back on up, and ship her on her way?

... I s this normal, Mr. Hillhater? Anybody? happen often? Should I have expected this? Lol... For a one off shipment expressively for testing purposes? >>> Lol.

Well goddamn. i bet this was a fun day at the office. Lol( x2).
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Godamnin imingarants and Georga fake erectors. ... Govt git in all that businesss. If Ah had mah way, i would have a 400 acre lithium farm and all the platinmvs for myha converters I need.. rhodium too. Windfarmin liek a TurkeyHillfarms. Gobbless tha BoarderPatrol an tham.. Now iz the time to test! Whoopie! RED Flaggin Laws r here to stay, but tat dont meen Imma gona stop racin any tim son.
 

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