Battery upgrade

Scootermad

1 mW
Joined
Feb 7, 2023
Messages
14
Hi ive just bought a chaos scooter used been on it a few times and love it but the charger is now flashing red and green simultaneously I think the batteries are done what would be a good upgrade lithium or lipo and where could I get them from also how do I know if its a 1000w or 1600w
Any information is greatly appreciated
 
Could also be the charger. I’d try a new charger first.

I recently got a 36v 20ah battery here

H HAILONG Ebike Battery Pack 36V... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LQFLDW8?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

It charges and holds a charge just fine. My controller runs at 36v 22a. The battery doesn’t get hot. I did do some research before buying this pack, as it is a lot of money. They either use Panasonics or LG.
 
6d244a7e-4c39-48b7-a6a3-19befedb7f47.__CR0,0,1000,1000_PT0_SX300_V1___.jpg

UberScoot similar w/1600w 48v brushless chain drive motor with same size SLA Battery pack as in your Chaos (top speed is 30mph with 1600w).

1000w ÷ 48v = 20.8amps (1000w brushed motor 25amps maximum ...
Top speed is 42km/h or 26mph (26mph vs 30mph). Is it worth the upgrade to 1600w for only an increase of 4mph?

Current battery pack ...
images

https://www.funbikes.co.uk/p8041_chaos-1000-watt-48-volt-powerboard-scooter-battery-pack

A 1600w SLA battery replacement for your Chaos can cost $225 ...https://www.ebay.com/itm/165898682388?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=165898682388&targetid=1263094003386&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9019693&poi=&campaignid=14859008593&mkgroupid=130497710760&rlsatarget=pla-1263094003386&abcId=9300678&merchantid=136055419&gclid=CjwKCAiAioifBhAXEiwApzCztrAKtq0fAFEPo5mD4IHHIIgVA__4fs79h7Lue3IoxtDGJ2ncEONrOxoCH2cQAvD_BwE

The cost of a reliable 48V 1600W Lithium will cost $300 to $400
(that's assuming you can find one that is a good replacement fit)

Chaos Sport 48v 1000w Troubleshooting ... https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105875
 
slaphappygamer said:
Could also be the charger. I’d try a new charger first.

I recently got a 36v 20ah battery here

H HAILONG Ebike Battery Pack 36V... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LQFLDW8?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

It charges and holds a charge just fine. My controller runs at 36v 22a. The battery doesn’t get hot. I did do some research before buying this pack, as it is a lot of money. They either use Panasonics or LG.

That's a cheap battery. With a high probability of generic cells. That's half of what a confirmed 50E 21700 36V 20Ah priced at.
 
slaphappygamer said:
Could also be the charger. I’d try a new charger first.

I recently got a 36v 20ah battery here

H HAILONG Ebike Battery Pack 36V... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LQFLDW8?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

It charges and holds a charge just fine. My controller runs at 36v 22a. The battery doesn’t get hot. I did do some research before buying this pack, as it is a lot of money. They either use Panasonics or LG.

tomjasz said:
That's a cheap battery. With a high probability of generic cells. That's half of what a confirmed 50E 21700 36V 20Ah priced at.
Not as cheap as this 48V 20Ah lithium battery rated up to 2000W. It's advertised as a Unit Pack Power, but there is no UPP name or logo printed on the shrink wrap - BUYER BEWARE ...

04028a2145618e1657534c7de959eb895f9fbf7c_105-480x570.jpg

https://www.yozven.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=9
https://www.yozven.com/index.php?route=checkout/checkout

Logic would say it cost at least $52 to manufacturer. However it's list price is only $51.69 (comes with charger and BMS protection board). At that price it's more likely the 48V 15Ah 1000W (not the 20Ah 2000W) lithium battery ...
Fast Delivery We have warehouses and after-sales service centers in Texas and California, it can be delivered quickly, it will take 3-6 days.
For a mere $52 you could buy four of these [knock-off?] UPPs for the cost of one 1600W replacement SLA battery pack costing £208.13. If you contact Yozven ask what the actual price is as you assumed the $51.69 was a 'comeon'' (mistake). Also why isn't there the UPP name and logo printed on the shrink wrap?

Maybe still further ahead getting that 1000W SLA battery pack (£208.13 / $250) ... https://www.funbikes.co.uk/p8041_chaos-1000-watt-48-volt-powerboard-scooter-battery-pack OR that 1600W SLA battery pack ($225) ...
s-l500.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165898698640?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D446ff6aada6743c4ad2f05c2a456fe9e%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D165898682388%26itm%3D165898698640%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWeb%26brand%3DBattery&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1
 
This $257 UPP would fit with room to spare for surround cushioning ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254891797802?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D245876%26meid%3D468a98676ba148ee84549088e61e6044%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D372742163245%26itm%3D254891797802%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithRevOptLambda85KnnRecallV1%26brand%3DPower&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A254891797802468a98676ba148ee84549088e61e6044%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAABEPZqctS1aW2Gn1fMafrLrPa7%252BqLD2Pgo5GTgCDTJgIpBMBHaBHcFvdVGNBWeIytK8f1wzF%252BzxLGmD%252BVjC1jJCjisvw5vx2WNp86WBy7tqVfm%252BOPOqjVejYAdNRnYsz1%252BQylhdJMxY%252Btlh4i0Em3%252BqmCwO0ghn7Fo9IyQkEdNW%252FyfWtoQZAvPJbT2Uox0qFNqUaJIbKtw%252FYF6TV8ETNn8apqqjIKYlkwj3PsGpoDdzdGcnPbHSmANUviCgB4kdrbFV908KNN04nImWDQtNnccr7oYZ8Dw5laLxBdB%252BiYVCnpHZ7RJuCL4nr4%252Ff32Su0STzgRcsEZtAmucJEoTxhTXToGgvk2Mr98Rdq4X9TOKiBaL%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675

s-l500.jpg


This 48V 20Ah UPP is $299 ...
s-l500.jpg


If you need 1600 watts a reliable lithium battery will cost close to $400.
(that's assuming it will fit with room for surround foam cushioning)
 
UPP a leader in pack failures, fires, obfuscating failures, ducking responsibility and saddling resellers with financial responsibility. Rechie sucks.
 
999zip999
Hi is a picture of my scooter
 

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When I'm on the scooter it starts moving fast as it should the battery level on the screen goes down but then if I turn it off and let it stand a minute or two the level goes back up that why I think the batteries are no good am I right in thinking that will any 12v 12ah batteries work
 
Voltage sag is normal in batteries. The condition is exactly how you explain. My scooter also had SLA batteries also. I learned that SLA amp hour rating is based off a 20 hour period. So, 12v 12ah SLA battery. That is 12 amps over a 20 hour period. 20/12=1.6ah. A 12ah lithium battery will have about 7.5 times the capacity of an SLA battery. You will still experience voltage sag.
 
:bigthumb: does it seem all fine then to its just the charger flashed red and green simultaneously but still charges the battery how many miles should I get off a full charge
 
Would you mind sharing a picture of your charger? The info on the back.

Regarding miles per charge. This will be different for everyone. Depends on combined weight of rider and scooter, elevation changes, tire conditions and wind resistance. All these factors effect your range. With SLA batteries, I wouldn’t expect too much. Just guessing, 3-6 miles.
 
I've tested the batteries and there all just about 12.1 volts after a 12 hour charge do I need tk replace them 3 to 6 miles isn't alot really I thought I'd get more then that
 
For SLA batteries, 12.1 is 40-50 percent charge. When fully charged, they should be around 12.8. Im pretty certain your current batteries are no good. Going to lithium will be much better. Depending on the capacity, your range should increase. Maybe double? You will have to get a 12v lithium charger for that. 12v sla chargers won’t supply enough voltage for a fully charged 12v lithium pack. Seems you have a 48v battery setup, as stated above. From the above picture, I can see 4 12v SLA in series.

Now that you confirmed your full battery voltage, I’m pretty sure your charger is telling you that those SLAs are gone.

If it were me, I’d get a 48v lithium battery.

Wait. Looks like this is your scooter.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/MotoTec-Chaos-2000-W-60-V-Lithium-Electric-Scooter-Black/366207023

You’ll need a 60v battery.

After reading the description, it comes with a 60v lithium battery. At 12.1 volts, that battery needs to go. Unless you are using a 12v charger. Please post a picture of your charger. It’ll have the output voltage on it.
 
Scootermad said:
What about if I upgraded to to lithium would the range change alot
Depends on what your budget can afford (12Ah or 24Ah). Is that chain drive motor rated at 1000w or 1600w? What about your Controller (e.g. 20amp or 30amp rating)? Is it rated for a 1000w motor or 1600w motor?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374121616097?chn=ps&var=643034288482&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=643034288482_374121616097&targetid=1263094003346&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9019693&poi=&campaignid=14859008593&mkgroupid=130497710760&rlsatarget=pla-1263094003346&abcId=9300678&merchantid=420526629&gclid=CjwKCAiA85efBhBbEiwAD7oLQFm4y9yhuqaV-8nrYRIXK16Ul6wxE4N85c856XjzixZBITNAFTLNLxoChrAQAvD_BwE
Generic ebay lithium 48V 12Ah - $162
Generic ebay lithium 48V 24Ah - $282

Previously listed those UnitPackPower (UPP) batteries and now the above [off-brand] ebay choices because most newbs converting a used SLA scooter to lithium can only afford to buy a less expensive [overrated?] battery with Chinese generic [2600mAh?] cells of questionable quality (i.e.actual continuous cell amp rating not provided). The actual 2600mAh cell max amp rating may be a low as 5amps. Likewise the BMS and charger of questionable quality ... you get what you pay.

BtrPower Li-ion Pack 25Ah - $386 ... (quality 48v 20Ah pack is over $300) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B82L34MX?tag=track-ect-usa-1306918-20&linkCode=osi&th=1
Doubt it's good sense to put that BtrPower Li-ion battery or other top quality Li-ion in that used scooter? You probably didn't pay more than $386 for your used Chaos 48V scooter (24Ah ebay Li-ion $282 / 25Ah BtrPower Li-ion $386). If range is a top priority than at least a 20Ah battery.

10 Best 48v 20ah Ebike Battery In The US (February 2023) ...
https://www.bestproductsreviews.com/48v-20ah-ebike-battery?targetid=dsa-19959388920&matchtype=&device=c&campaignid=14938899091&creative=552785546059&adgroupid=131352087307&feeditemid=&loc_physical_ms=9019693&loc_interest_ms=&network=g&devicemodel=&placement=&keyword=$&target=&aceid=&adposition=&trackid=us_all_top_1_1&mId=407-132-4411&trackOld=true&gclid=CjwKCAiA85efBhBbEiwAD7oLQCYV0ipd4A8GmFK4DAey3142qFlKezvvFu-38dopDP4JmjMRKuAPFRoCCxIQAvD_BwE
Three of the Ten are UnitPackPower (UPP) batteries from $332 to $395. However, if limited budget would actually prefer buying an off-brand via ebay, AliExpress or another off-brand costing no more than $250 ... hopefully saving money over the short haul, but not over the long haul (???).
 
I've replaced the batteries for some 12v 14ah lucas batteries brand new ive fitted them. And the charger is still flashing red and green simultaneously. The previous owner has fitted a different connector to the charger and the scooter
 
eMark said:
10 Best 48v 20ah Ebike Battery In The US (February 2023) ...
https://www.bestproductsreviews.com/48v-20ah-ebike-battery?targetid=dsa-19959388920&matchtype=&device=c&campaignid=14938899091&creative=552785546059&adgroupid=131352087307&feeditemid=&loc_physical_ms=9019693&loc_interest_ms=&network=g&devicemodel=&placement=&keyword=$&target=&aceid=&adposition=&trackid=us_all_top_1_1&mId=407-132-4411&trackOld=true&gclid=CjwKCAiA85efBhBbEiwAD7oLQCYV0ipd4A8GmFK4DAey3142qFlKezvvFu-38dopDP4JmjMRKuAPFRoCCxIQAvD_BwE
Three of the Ten are UnitPackPower (UPP) batteries from $332 to $395. However, if limited budget would actually prefer buying an off-brand via ebay, AliExpress or another off-brand costing no more than $250 ... hopefully saving money over the long haul (???).

Um, "cleverly generated"? No thanks.

Here's their blurb on how they rated the batteries.
 

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To some respect they ALL play the same Marketing game. Reminds me of Biden's "State Of The Union" ... IOW you can mislead/fool people for only so long. By that i mean without equivocation that some of your posts are just so much opinionated verbage and i suppose you could say the same about me :thumb: ... but IMO yours moreso :wink:

It all started way back when with Marshall McCluhan - The Medium is the Message (1964). Now too much intercourse borders on exxxaggeration (going overboard IMO) and even disinformation as if it's now the new discourse. For all we know your UPP opinion could border on tongue-in-cheek or maybe(?) as true as true can be (what is truth). If Ron (sm) had posted a similar opinion about UPP as did you then we all would take it to heart, but doubt that is going to transpire.

I doubt the OP wants to spend more than $250 (if possible) for his conversion from SLA to Li-ion for his used Chaos scooter. FWIW, i've got 2 UPP Li-ion batteries and am very satisfied with the performance. The problem with too many newbs as well as those that should know better is they just can't resist abusing a battery that probably wasn't a suitable match in the 1st Place for the task.

So, would you care to recommend a 1st rate quality 48V Lion (name brand popular cells) with good range (20Ah) costing no more than $300. You can knock me for my UPP suggestion and yet i doubt you will ever suggest what you consider a 1st rate quality 48V 15Ah Li-ion battery for no more than $250.
 
eMark said:
i doubt you will ever suggest what you consider a 1st rate quality 48V 15Ah Li-ion battery for no more than $250.

A $250 48V 15AH battery for $250 will be a poor build. $5 BMS, nickel coated steel ribbon and marginal hand welded connections. I too have UPP batteries that have served me well . BUT, I specified the connection be pure nickel and the BMS be and upgrade to a balance capable BMS. While with California e-bikes we sold hundreds of UPP batteries. With a higher failure rate than acceptable. 2 to three times the warranty claims with EM3ev batteries. I’m not sure why you find this controversial. Just the facts.

I’ve no problem if buyers understand the pitfalls. IME I save a few bucks until I can afford $400-$500 for a battery that will outlast my UPP 2 to 1. A BT BMS and a good app make EM3ev a FAR superior buy. But my narrow view is limited to 7 years of battery sales and support for 5 different builders.

We met with Rechie and tried hard to sell a reliable pack, but $250 won’t get me there.
 
tomjasz said:
A $250 48V 15AH battery for $250 will be a poor build. $5 BMS, nickel coated steel ribbon and marginal hand welded connections. I too have UPP batteries that have served me well.

I save a few bucks until I can afford $400-$500 for a battery that will outlast my UPP 2 to 1. A BT BMS and a good app make EM3ev a FAR superior buy. But my narrow view is limited to 7 years of battery sales and support for 5 different builders.

We met with Rechie and tried hard to sell a reliable pack, but $250 won’t get me there.
Your missing the point why so many on a tight budget buy a UPP battery assuming it meets and even exceeds the task required. In other words choosing the right UPP battery so it won't be abused.

The OP has a used Choas with chain drive powered by 4-12V (48V) SLA batteries. Do you actually think you can persuade him to pay $400-$500 for a EM3ev battery. Lots Of Luck with that scenario.

tomjasz said:
While with California e-bikes we sold hundreds of UPP batteries. With a higher failure rate than acceptable. Two to three times the warranty claims with EM3ev batteries. I’m not sure why you find this controversial. Just the facts.
So, WHY didn't California e-bikes buy EM3ev batteries instead of skimping with underpowered UPP batteries? Same reason why the OP probably won't buy an expensive EM3ev Li-ion ... just the facts :wink:

Hopefully, if he does buy a UPP he won't skimp, but instead buy one that is up to the task and treat it with care ... so it won't be abused.
 
eMark said:
[]So, WHY didn't California e-bikes buy EM3ev batteries instead of skimping with underpowered UPP batteries? Same reason why the OP probably won't buy an expensive EM3ev Li-ion ... just the facts :wink:

Hopefully, if he does buy a UPP he won't skimp, but instead buy one that is up to the task and treat it with care ... so it won't be abused.

Actually Doug sold EM3ev batteries and in an attempt to provide better pricing and faster shipping to end customers. He met with Rechie and stocked UPP batteries for just over a year. When UPP failed to support any warranty coverage and the shop ate close to 5% failure rates, and was sued for a UPP fire Doug went back to Paul and EM3ev.

This latest availability of cheap batteries is pretty new. Just a few years ago a $300 pack was unheard of. Did the cost of materials go down or did the market us3 cheaper materials.

China is essentially held harmless for any disasters. Standards are coming. But UL ratings are an expensive undertaking. Expect to pay more.
 
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