Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hardergamer » Jan 11 2022 11:29am

This looks interesting but at what cost? And why is it only going to work on next gen... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 095611.htm


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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Jan 14 2022 6:53am

Hardergamer wrote:
Jan 11 2022 11:29am
This looks interesting but at what cost? And why is it only going to work on next gen... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 095611.htm
From the article..
.The idea for the study was born when Cui speculated that applying a voltage to a battery's cathode and anode could make an isolated island of lithium physically move between the electrodes -- a process his team has now confirmed with their experiments.
Which sounds a lot like charging a cell ?.?
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Ianhill » Jan 14 2022 7:25am

Ions as in lithuim ions
Traits
They form crystals.
They have high melting and high boiling points.
They are hard and brittle.
They have higher enthalpies of fusion and vapourisation than molecular compounds.
They conduct electricity when dissolved in water.
Ionic solids do not conduct electricity so they are good insulators also.

The crystal formation is dentrites they form a bridge between anode and cathode causing a slow draining short that grows with the crystal formation.

Its not easy to just blast them away with a high discharge/charge setting as they have higher melting points than the surrounding material.

The crystal formation itself is harmless as its not conductive without the aid of a wet electrolyte thats why solid cells get all this hype the dentrites can still form but they wint be conductive in a soild electrolyte meaning theres massive improvement in shelf life up for grabs solving this riddle.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Jan 19 2022 8:56pm

:roll: ..Here we go again.
Remember Kilowattlabs Sirius “Supercap battery” that caused so much debate a few years ago ?...
....well they are still spruking those and are now proposing this....
.Kilowatt Labs announced successful development of its solid-state supercap cell prototype. The prototype has an energy density of 450Wh/kg, and can be formed into any shape and operate as supercap storage.

This is the next generation approach towards energy storage – structural storage in which there are no embedded batteries, rather the material itself is the energy storage device. For example, in a car, its body is the energy storage with the electrical storage is provided by the layers of supercap and composite materials. The concept of structural storage was first developed by the US military in the mid-2000s using carbon fiber for the cell’s electrodes, but is now gaining increasing attention in research and industry as the shift to electrification in every aspect of life gathers pace and the size and weight of batteries becomes an impediment to this progress.

Our idea is to develop the solid state supercap as a sheet, similar to a carbon fibre sheet. The supercap sheet can then be cut into different forms – for example the body of a vehicle or the body of a phone, all made entirely of the supercap, which would significantly enhance storage capacity. The design is now being tested, with the Company targeting completion and launch of a product within the next 6 months. The Company is confident that this development will be a defining moment in energy storage.
Read their news releases,....they make impressive reading ! :roll:
https://kilowattlabs.com/news/
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Ianhill » Jan 20 2022 9:13am

Ive been skeptical on the break through scene for years take everything with a pinch of salt till something is proven all known faults highlighted.

The lithuim cap is beyond testing its available to purchase from most well known component stockist, its not the end all and be all its pointless most applications other than very small.

For example a mobility scooter thats run lead acid could swap out to 21700-5000 mah with a total of 12 cells and 6 caps giving 6s 10ah and 20amp burst the caps would add 0.3wh to each string but take the load from the cell and allow it to cycle more.

When i had my stand up scooter id get stopped by the old guys on they mobility scooters and they say hiw you been to town and back at 40mph yet they can make it half that and id tell them lead acid aint meant to go below 50% and even if it says 20ah available on the tin 10ah is all its got to give long term discharge below 50% on lead acid like 80% on lithuim so in that area it could be possible to make it perform the same at less than a 1/4 weight.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by speedmd » Jan 20 2022 4:54pm

Used Kevlar fibers work to keep sulfur components from degrading in lithium sulfur cells. https://www.futurity.org/electric-vehic ... r-2683002/

some more on how it works
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27861-w

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by speedmd » Jan 23 2022 4:41pm

Claim is that tesla secured a big high performance LFP buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K_aBoxtSnk

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by neptronix » Jan 24 2022 3:31pm

Ianhill wrote:
Jan 20 2022 9:13am
Ive been skeptical on the break through scene for years take everything with a pinch of salt till something is proven all known faults highlighted.
I know most people have, but i think some of those '5 year promises' are about to actually become true. I knew battery technology would advance a generation - it has to - a lot of things are waiting for a better battery, and an insane amount of money is being spent to ensure we get one.

Whenever there is a lot of will, there will eventually be a way.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by JackFlorey » Jan 24 2022 3:36pm

neptronix wrote:
Jan 24 2022 3:31pm
I know most people have, but i think some of those '5 year promises' are about to actually become true.
That would be awesome. I've just heard that far too many times before.

Like I've said before, the future looks bright. But most of that "light" comes from better versions of existing technology. I am convinced that better LFP's will be the next big breakthrough in EV's, as their performance improves. It will mean cheaper cars with longer-lived batteries. And as chargers proliferate, the ~250 mile range you can get with them will be less and less of an issue.

(And of course we get them after they are finished with EV service.)

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by neptronix » Jan 24 2022 4:56pm

I can certainly envision a world powered by LFP ( cheap when it becomes dense? ) along with solid state, plus at least one other technology that seems currently like vaporware.

I can also see enthusiasm for DIY builds rise from the dead :pancake:
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Jan 24 2022 5:00pm

JackFlorey wrote:
Jan 24 2022 3:36pm
I am convinced that better LFP's will be the next big breakthrough in EV's, as their performance improves. It will mean cheaper cars with longer-lived batteries.
.......
(And of course we get them after they are finished with EV service.)
LFP, will always be in a lower (performance ) group for mobile applications, compared to other cobalt based formulas,.... which are also constantly being improved....EG, Solid state.
One of the key improvements promised is much longer useful life......
....which means is will likely be much longer before those improved cells filter down to other end/2nd users !
And yes.... we have heard that far too many times before.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by JackFlorey » Jan 24 2022 7:26pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 24 2022 5:00pm
LFP, will always be in a lower (performance ) group for mobile applications, compared to other cobalt based formulas,.... which are also constantly being improved...
Yep.

When I first worked with lithium ion cells back around 1998, the best 18650s were 1300ma, and the energy density was around 80 wh/kg. Now they are over twice that, and energy densities are hitting 260 wh/kg.

Right now LFP's can get to 160 wh/kg. If we get to 200 wh/kg (an improvement of only 25%) then they are competitive with li-ion for most transportation applications. Naturally li-ion will continue to advance as well - but for EV's that need ~250 miles range they will work quite well. AND be cheaper, AND require fewer mineral resources, AND last longer. The one operational drawback is their inability to charge in cold weather, but most EVs now contain battery pack temperature control.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by JackFlorey » Jan 25 2022 11:32am

Chinese car company DongFeng just announced the first deliveries of 50 DongFeng E70 sedans to a Chinese taxi company. These are straightforward EV's, but they are unusual in that they have a "semi sold state" battery. The battery, manufactured by Ganfeng Lithium, has what they call a "solid electrolyte diaphragm." Now, if this electrolyte actually makes up most of the electrolyte and is in direct contact with the electrode coatings, then that would be pretty exciting, because that would basically be a solid state battery. However based on some descriptions this is more like a separator than an electrolyte, which is what we have now. (The battery still contains liquid electrolyte.)

Their specs are underwhelming. Max charge/discharge rate of C/3, energy density of 210 wh/kg. They are promising 360 wh/kg Real Soon Now but I've heard that before. Still, good to see a (potentially) significant change in electrolyte.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/First-ele ... 233.0.html

http://www.ganfenglithium.com/pro3_deta ... d/198.html

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Jan 25 2022 5:52pm

JackFlorey wrote:
Jan 25 2022 11:32am

........
Their specs are underwhelming. Max charge/discharge rate of C/3, energy density of 210 wh/kg.
Hmm ? That right there could be a major issue, and would have to improve by orders of magnitude for realistic applications.
C/3 discharge suggests a very large pack would be needed for a 100kW drive train. (1500 kg of cells ?)
That would negate all other potential advantages
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Ianhill » Jan 25 2022 8:44pm

I liked the look of a new bike coming out for a small commuter, tromox ukko.

But it uses lfp blade cells sounds good at first durable and 72v 55ah worth stuffed in there for 4kwh stored but the kicker comes on the weight of the bike is near enough 70kg, but comes with a twinspar aluminuim lightweight design and a single sided swingarm so the pack has to be around 40kg of the total weight or 6kg short of 2/3rds the total weight.

Gives the bike massive potential if swappped to a 72v nmc pack etc but been €6000 i wouldnt be buying it to swap stuff about and waiting for a failure id see other components failing before the battery itself.

I seen the 138ah blade cells and instantly thought storage solution, i watched 4wd 24/7 latest on camping batterys and thought the byd cells make sence over lead acid and lithuim in them harsh conditions those blade cells look simple to stack robust if all the hype is true and cooking on induction in the outback looks sweet, fp the rigs got all one needs.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by speedmd » Jan 26 2022 9:02am

GM is public with investment in new battery- and several re tooled ev plants. 7 billion dollar investment.
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/24955080 ... in-america

https://www.newspressusa.com/publicReleaseView/71962
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by speedmd » Jan 29 2022 3:05pm

Some more details this week on the rubber matrix talked about last month.

“a three-dimensional interconnected plastic crystal phase within the robust rubber matrix”

https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/ ... s-2022-01/

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Jan 29 2022 6:27pm

speedmd wrote:
Jan 26 2022 9:02am
GM is public with investment in four new battery plants. 7 billion dollar investment.
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/24955080 ... in-america
That is not what the article says.....
One new battery plant (partnered with LG).. and upgrades / conversions for 3 other existing plants !
...and likely the end for the Bolt !
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by speedmd » Jan 29 2022 9:01pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 29 2022 6:27pm
speedmd wrote:
Jan 26 2022 9:02am
GM is public with investment in four new battery plants. 7 billion dollar investment.
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/24955080 ... in-america
That is not what the article says.....
One new battery plant (partnered with LG).. and upgrades / conversions for 3 other existing plants !
...and likely the end for the Bolt !
Lots more details in the local news. The new joint venture cell mfg plant looks to be the smaller part of the investment @ 3 billion. Certainly great news for the factory towns getting the new lines installed in the ev - battery pack assembly fields. Word on the street is that the Bolt is done.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by speedmd » Jan 30 2022 9:19am

"One new battery plant (partnered with LG)"
Little know on chemistry planned or cell format I can find. May be too little- too late. 2024 production start. Right about the time resources will start to tighten as many have been claiming. Still may be a life saving move for them sitting back a bit and take the more lucrative options as they develop. If they can get the cells- packs below $100 / kwh, claims are they could undercut the current ICE vehicle costs. Still small compared to Fords 11 Billion out of state investment. Most likely, it saves GM a good amount retooling existing infrastructure and being close to the vast support network in the area.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Jan 30 2022 5:30pm

Well, it will be LG technology for sure.....whatever that may be after last years disasters with the Bolt,.. (and Hyundai),....LG packs ?
Hopefully LG have been able to prove to GM that the cause, solution, and future technology are all resolved.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by speedmd » Feb 01 2022 11:45am

Looks like the GM LG ultium cells are following the trend to much longer cells. Looks a bit like the Blade. No format updates I can find. Photos from awhile back. Claim is they use 70% less cobalt. Finding two other new battery facilities in Ohio and Tennessee mentioned in the company news last week. Interesting to see the details once available.
Image
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by speedmd » Feb 10 2022 1:44pm

kdog wrote:
Jul 27 2020 10:55pm
Aus/us co-lab is trying to get a new battery off the ground. Source: the driven.nz

"Magnis Energy Technologies and its US partner Charge CCCV (C4V) announced to the ASX on Friday morning its Extra Fast Charge technology managed to get a battery up to 85 per cent in just six minutes"
Normal energy density cells, but goes on to say that the ultra fast charger is not associated with premature degradation of the battery.

Going to need a hefty charger @ ~8c charging :shock:
C4V is back in the news with the LiSER tech that claims no cobalt or nickel. High energy density. https://www.financialexpress.com/expres ... a/2427648/

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by speedmd » Feb 12 2022 4:08pm

Li Sulfur - cathode news.

Breakthrough with monoclinic gamma-phase sulfur! 4000 + charge cycles and still going strong.

https://drexel.edu/now/archive/2022/Feb ... ectrolyte/

Image
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