GM retreating into its shell ?

Hillhater

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GM have announced it will withdraw completely from the Australian market and other markets for RH drive vehicles..EG., Japan, N Z, India, Malasia, etc
The announcement comes more than two years after GM ended vehicle manufacturing in Australia, a place the automaker used as a proving ground for up-and-coming executives, including GM President Mark Reuss.

Reuss, in the release, said the company explored a range of options to continue Holden operations, but “none could overcome the challenges of the investments needed for the highly fragmented right-hand-drive market, the economics to support growing the brand, and delivering an appropriate return on investment.”

“At the highest levels of our company we have the deepest respect for Holden’s heritage and contribution to our company and to the countries of Australia and New Zealand,” Reuss said.

The market exits add to unprecedented actions by GM to retreat from underperforming markets in recent years, most notably selling its European operations to French automaker PSA Group in 2017. It also restructured its operations in South Korea and ended or limited operations in Russia, Australia, yIndia and Thailand...
GM will effectively focus on the North America and China markets !
So , no GM EVs for Aus/NZ then ?
 
With the Holden name to be retired by the end of this year, General Motors is considering a new sub-brand called General Motors Specialty Vehicles (GMSV) that would sell selected US models – most of which will be converted to right-hand-drive by the company formerly known as Holden Special Vehicles, and which currently imports the Chevrolet Camaro muscle car and Chevrolet Silverado pick-up.

We will get limited numbers of GM cars to specific dealers just not a full fleet of variants anymore. What happens to their dealer network will be interesting.

Certainly feels like they're mostly giving up on us... Not that I blame them, after they stopped producing cars here most of Holden fans stopped buying them.

I imagine buyer logic went: Cannot support a local business, why not look at the other cheaper options then?

Maybe a touch of "how long is this company going to exist now?" as well.

I mean sure ultimately they did this to themselves but after doing what they initially did with manufacturing, this result isn't exactly surprising. Holden sales have plummeted.

Wouldn't like my resale value if I owned a Holden car right now.

Wonder how well they do in RHD countries holistically. Maybe they could probably pull out of all of them without too much detriment.

Be nice if our gov finally recognised that there's no longer an auto industry here to protect and revised import taxes.
 
boars said:
Wonder how well they do in RHD countries holistically. Maybe they could probably pull out of all of them without too much detriment.....
reports i have read say they will withdraw from ALL RH drive markets ( india, Japan, Thailand, S Africa, etc) and selling the Thailand production plant (RH ?) to Great Wall.

....Be nice if our gov finally recognised that there's no longer an auto industry here to protect and revised import taxes.
Thats one option,.. the other is like most countries and slap on a massive foreign vehicle tax to encourage local production and hence boost the economy ! :shock:

But , it certainly means no GM EVs for us in the foreseeable future !...
..Shame, i was actually looking forward to a Bolt type city car at some point in the future :roll:
 
Hillhater said:
boars said:
Wonder how well they do in RHD countries holistically. Maybe they could probably pull out of all of them without too much detriment.....
reports i have read say they will withdraw from ALL RH drive markets ( india, Japan, Thailand, S Africa, etc) and selling the Thailand production plant (RH ?) to Great Wall.

They're withdrawing from ours and yet still importing select models, it's a pretty half-hearted withdrawal or maybe it's just a slow phase out.

They've struggled in Europe for years and have sold their brands Opel and Vauxhall a few years back so there's probably not much left over there I guess.

Either way it looks pretty grim if you wanted one of their cars at some point in the future and don't happen to be in the States.

Hillhater said:
boars said:
....Be nice if our gov finally recognised that there's no longer an auto industry here to protect and revised import taxes.
Thats one option,.. the other is like most countries and slap on a massive foreign vehicle tax to encourage local production and hence boost the economy ! :shock:

But , it certainly means no GM EVs for us in the foreseeable future !...
..Shame, i was actually looking forward to a Bolt type city car at some point in the future :roll:

Aren't we in this situation because our current Gov didn't want to prop up local production?
Seems an unlikely back-flip, especially for them when the only low volume manufacturers we seem to have are electric.

We're not going to have a fast transition from " the Labor party wants to steal your Utes and weekends with electrics..." to turning around and embracing it.
 
The image of Joe Hockey goading GM to pack up and leave...

And then they did.

And now PM Morrison is 'sad and angry' about GMs departure...

Now, the auto industry was getting handouts to the tune of $13,000 per employee, but don't worry, defence contracts are around three times that :shock:
 
boars said:
We're not going to have a fast transition from " the Labor party wants to steal your Utes and weekends with electrics..." to turning around and embracing it.
Well, that was never going to happen here anyway until there is some major leap in battery technology and cost, or likewise in fuel cell development.
I was casually. ” car shopping” at the weekend as i drove up the East coast.
Chatting with the sales guys at a couple of Nissan dealers asking why no Leafs ..used or new, in their stock ?
Answer, they are not “acreddited to sell or support EVs. In order to do so they would have to have major redevelopment of their workshops, much new equipment, multiple charging facilities, training, etc etc.
And they had no plans to do it !
A Kia/Hyundai dealer (2 infact) had a similar explanations, but did expect to make the changes eventually...but still no EVs in the showrooms !
Interestingly , Google tells me there are lots of EV charge points around the main highways etc.
But Selling EVs here is going to be like “ swimming in treacle !” ..for some time yet.
 
Just as a bit of side info, this video posted on another thread explains some of the business reasons why some major ICE manufacturers are reluctant to jump on the EV bandwagon
https://youtu.be/Hatav_Rdnno
[youtube]Hatav_Rdnno[/youtube]
There is a 2 nd video that deals with efficiencies also.
 
I'd say the primary reason is still that showrooms/dealers sell vehicles on behalf of manufacturers and said dealers rely on servicing to stay afloat. Not to mention that even manufacturers have vehicles that are loss leaders. Pumping out cheap cars with expensive parts is a great way to make a buck.

Why would a dealer desire to sell a car that'll bring in less ongoing revenue?
There's going to be no push from any countries dealers to go electric unless legislated or some such.

That's why hybrids are so wonderful, you can continue profit off servicing while pretending to care about the environment.
It's win win for dealers.
While this requires more skills and tools to deal with, the greater the complexity a vehicles has means it's less likely to be serviced elsewhere because of it.

I was talking electrics with a sales guy in a local motorbike shop and even though they had an electric on the floor, they didn't bother to let me know about it until I pressed them for info. After which he tried to sell me a Scooter instead, when I'd expressed having zero interest in scooters. Really ramped up chatter of the eco friendlyness of scooters...

They don't want to sell you an electric, when you want to buy one and they have one on the floor. :shock:

And while we welcome highly polluting vehicles other countries wont sell (or aren't economically viable to sell - taxes based on emissions) we cannot expect the industry to start cleaning up its act.

Here's a fun quote for you:

A spokeswoman for Honda Australia could not say why cars such as the CR-V need to be serviced every six months in Australia, while the same cars have 12-month intervals in the UK.

If that doesn't sum up dealers and manufacturers relationship with servicing, than I don't know what does.

jonescg said:
And now PM Morrison is 'sad and angry' about GMs departure...

Scotty hasn't got a leg to stand on - probably should have shot off an effective prayer or two back when they were busy giving the industry the finger.
 
Holy crap, Opel has been sold to Peugeot-Citroen? How the hell did I miss that?? Something didn't seem right when they shut down Saab and it's bloody obvious something is wrong when they've sold off Opel, they might as well say "we don't want to do business in europe any more".

I'd say it's an indication of where the car business is headed. Car dealers make very little on sales (often a loss) with their profits mostly coming from aftersales service. Take away all the high maintenance bits and that's mostly gone, all that's left is changing batteries (they've already lost tyre sales) and maybe an occasional set of brake pads. It looks like cars might be going the same way as electrical appliances, mostly generic brands with a few high end brands for those that can afford them.
 
Aus have a massive luxury car tax on cars over $75,526 (at 33%)
the irony of this tax was to protect the local car industry, however, there is no car industry left in Aus

I blame the government The amount tax on some things is dumb But we could also have a small scale giga factory in AU, we have a big market for solar as well with heavy need for batterys
 
The Australian Market is not big enough, and manufacturing is too expensive (labour, energy, corporate tax, etc).. to support any new industry being set up..
...let alone a product that is poorly suited to australian demands.
There have been reports of battery factories being set up here for over 5 years, for solar storage etc, but so far not a brick has been laid.....why ?.. because no one will do it without public subsidies, and they are not big enough yet.
Australia actually had its own EV back in 2011.. the Commodore EV, a complete Ozzie design motor , inverter, etc.
Several were built and tested, ..But GM killed that PDQ also !
Pricing would have been uncompetitive anyway though !
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/holden-commodore-electric-first-taste-review-11180
[youtube]liQgFjmApAU[/youtube]
 
st35326 said:
I blame the government The amount tax on some things is dumb But we could also have a small scale giga factory in AU,
Small economies like Au have to have high taxes unless they have large trade surplus from natural resources like Oil, Gas, coal, Iron ore , etc.
If you limit or eliminate the exploitation of those resources , you can expect even higher taxes.
“ Small scale giga factory” ....you mean like a regular factory ? :lol: :lol:
 
The demise of Australia's auto industry is a bit like discussing electricity generation in this country.

Certain camps have their favourite reason, and will insist that that one specific thing was the source of all woes.

If you read The Australian, you will be dutifully informed it was all the Union's fault.
If you read Wheels, it was because GM made cars nobody wanted to buy.
If you read the Age, it was because free trade agreements meant Australians can now import 64 different makes of car.
If you read Endless-Sphere, it's the high cost of labour and energy. Germany still does OK making cars but they have scale.
Then there's the resources boom which pushes the dollar higher and took away skilled labour. Plus dirt pays better dividends per employee.

Reality is it's all of the above. Making 4-door tin-tops is expensive and hard, and if you're going to commit to it, you need a well thought out plan. Could Australia ever make cars again? I doubt it. But we could make parts for cars and export them.
 
jonescg said:
....... Could Australia ever make cars again? I doubt it. But we could make parts for cars and export them.
We could , and indeed we do. But sadly the same economic factors apply.
Even fully automated (non labour) manufacturing has to deal with the realities of tax, energy, compliance, market scale, etc,...and if most of your market is overseas you have the added issue of freight, duty & shipping charges, etc.
Its hard to avoid the competition of heavily subsidised countries like china, Indonesia , india, etc.
 
Maybe we need IKEA flat packed cars we can assemble here to avoid import taxes on fully assembled vehicles.
Components would get you under the LCT at the very least :lol:

:pancake:

Getting over all the hurdles described would be a mission and a half even if you didn't have to compete against massive incumbents that can loss lead a cheaper, reliable machine.

Many car companies have tried and failed to get anywhere against the industrial might of the automotive industry in bigger markets than Australia.

Reminds me when I was a kid, I used to work at Coles and every day our fresh produce manager would go out to the fruit and veg' shop next door, note all their prices down and then undercut every single one of them. Ah competition.

The only way we'd have any luck is if every other major manufacturer decided they'd had enough of RHD vehicles too and pulled out of our market... then we'd be in a tough place that we'd be forced to find some capability... or say sod it and switch to LHD. :lol:
 
Im sure some other manufacturers will do similar business analysis and pull out of Australia (VW, Tesla ?), but the world wide RH drive market is too well established for most to ignor.
Apart from australia, you are talking of India, Japan, Indonesia, S Africa & E African countries,Thailand, Malasia,G Britain, Ireland, and several S American areas.
GMs move to quit all RH markets is a crisis move and apparently flows on from the GFC crash when they cut all development of future RH models .
Hopefully, the development of AI/Driverless vehicles will solve the problem and avoid the need for anyone to switch sides. ?
 
If their focus shifts to EVs then it really doesn't matter what side the wheel is on. It's very easy to design a new EV with optional steering wheel location. Headlights are so smart these days the bean goes where it's needed automatically. Only major headache left is the windsheld wipers.

But yes, GM is in deep trouble. Bailing out of 30% of the world market is not a positive sign.
 
Its no easier than designing an ICE for optional controls...
there is not much direct interaction between the driver and the engine /gbox in a modern auto
the compliance testing for different countries is likely a bigger problem.
 
Far out - talk about liquidation!
Discounts on driveaway costs. All stock in remaining dealerships is expected to be depleted well before the end of 2020, with some dealers expecting to close by the end of financial year (June 30). Expected discounts from the start of March according to dealer bulletin (subject to change):
Holden Colorado (ute) - $13,000 to $17,500 off
Holden Trax (small SUV) - $10,000 to $11,000 off (down to ~$13,000 driveaway)
Holden Acadia (large seven seat SUV) - $11,500 to $17,00 off
Holden Commodore (liftback/tourer/sportwagon) - $7,500 off
Holden Astra (hatch/sedan) - $8,500 off (down to ~$12,000 base model driveaway)
Holden Equinox (medium SUV) - $10,750 off (down to ~$20,000 base model driveaway)
 
Hillhater said:
Small economies like Au have to have high taxes unless they have large trade surplus from natural resources like Oil, Gas, coal, Iron ore , etc.
If you limit or eliminate the exploitation of those resources , you can expect even higher taxes.
Mate, you post a lot of bollocks - but this takes the cake. NZ has incredibly limited exposure to all of the industries you've just described, yet has lower income tax across all brackets - Aussie 90-180k bracket is 37% and then 45% on anything higher - NZ top rate is 33% on anything over 70k. Despite this we are humming along just fine, by many metrics better than Australia. Odd? Perhaps you might be incorrect?
 
Talking bollocks ? ...check your tax info !
What is your problem here ?
NZ has a different economic base to Australia and a different tax structure, that actually results in lower income earners (<$50k). paying MORE tax in NZ than their Aussie equals !
AND. the income earners up to about $90k will pay almost exactly the same $$$s in tax , in either country !
What do you think would change if the UN gets it way and shuts down the NZ farm sector ?
 
Right... 90k income - Aus $22,597. NZ $21,871.

You are familiar with the function of numbers right? I would have paid $3500 more in Aus this year, not including all the other ways Australia essentially taxes people, health insurance, car registration, mandatory vehicle insurance which are all an order of magnitude more expensive than here.

I'm not saying tax is bad, I would prefer we adopted another higher tax bracket like Australia. I'm just saying you're full of BS and incapable of admitting when you state something for a fact that is patently untrue.

On topic, GM has been pretty transparent with it's earning signs for quite some time. Half assed vehicles with nothing in the pipeline, makes sense they ran out of momentum. Extrapolating their difficulty to the global market would be untrue however, some people are still managing to make vehicles with plenty of margin...
 
Ohbse said:
Right... 90k income - Aus $22,597. NZ $21,871.

You are familiar with the function of numbers right?
Yes , are you ? !..and my numbers say that $90k income in Au would pay $20,797 tax !
https://www.superguide.com.au/boost-your-superannuation/income-tax-rates
.. so who is stating untrue facts now ?
 
Interesting figures - not sure where Ohbse is getting them from.

However if you don't count the "Accident Compensation Corporation" deduction (we don't count medicare levy etc in ours) and just go pure PAYE tax rate you end up with NZ paying slightly less.

PAYE - $20,620NZ Vs 20,797AU. https://neuvoo.co.nz/tax-calculator/New+Zealand-90000
Pretty much splitting hairs at $177 however.

Anyway before going too deeply down this rabbit hole and throwing facts and figures around and calculating our own cost of living spreadsheets, lets look at one that already exists:
Cost of living in New Zealand is 2.71% lower than in Australia (aggregate data for all cities, rent is not taken into account). Rent in New Zealand is 8.37% lower than in Australia (average data for all cities).
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=New%20Zealand

At the end of the day I'd like to thank New Zealand for their pavlova.
Vegemite > Marmite.

Now that we've got that out of the way - are any of the American auto companies that ARE doing particularly well?
 
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