19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

The Toecutter · Sep 8, 2019

ridethelightning said:
Schwalbe Marathon Plus has got to be very low resistance looking at the treat pattern.
but not too sure how good they would be in tussock grass

As far as bicycle tires go, the Marathon Plus are perhaps the most puncture proof but will not hold up to goat heads, and their rolling resistance is about average as far as bicycle tires go, Crr around 0.007, while there are bicycle tires as high as 0.012 Crr and as low as 0.002 Crr. For comparison, most car tires are around 0.01 Crr, but some exist as low as 0.005 Crr. I'm looking for a motorcycle or moped tire with a Crr around 0.008 or less, but most of those seem to be 0.015 and above!

I'm looking for good puncture resistance that can withstand goathead thorns, strong sidewalls that won't fail when operating over road debris at highway speeds, and low rolling resistance all in the same tire. I know it's possible because there are car tires that do exactly that, but those are too big/heavy for my application, and for whatever reason, no one seems to make motorcycle or moped tires that are truly low rolling resistance.

rollingfieldz · Oct 29, 2019

Hello all, what do you think about pairing 19 x 1.4 rims with the IRC GP1 2.75 tires? If those are too wide, what would be a comparable dual sport tire that's just a little narrower? Thanks!

Merlin · Oct 29, 2019

19x1,4 + 2.75 tires are no problem

rockstar195 · Oct 29, 2019

Jamil.Siddiqi said:
My conversion has been taking longer than expected. First I fried a Cycle Analyst and bought a replacement. Then I decided to keep the dirt tire on the old wheel and built up a new wheel with new 5KW motor, including statoraid and hubsinks. The dropout needed to be increased to 150mm, hence I built the following adapter:

dropout2.jpg

the new adapter (7075 aluminum) is probably the strongest part of the bike now. With the statoraid and higher voltage I hope to get 8-10KW out of the motor.

I also installed a new chainring:
chainring.jpg

It looks pretty insane and is a bit too large - the chain slightly touches the seat stay. I should have taken 80T vs. the shown 85T version. With a bigger rear triangle this should not be a problem. I really did not think about clearance in this area.

A new 120A controller and 120A BMS are also installed. The bike moves, but somehow power is cuttoff when I reach about 20 amps - goes down to zero. Need to research that and hope to be riding soon.

How did you figure out how to balance the whole rear wheel with the hub???? If anybody else knows how to do this please let us know thanks

Merlin · Oct 29, 2019

you would be one of the first doing this. Car rim balance weights are not the best idea

is it that bad that you need balancing?

i see you installed tubliss....putting the pressure valve opposite site is better for balance.

anyway you can balance it with normal "spoke" weights.

sn0wchyld · Oct 29, 2019

rockstar195 said:
Jamil.Siddiqi said:

My conversion has been taking longer than expected. First I fried a Cycle Analyst and bought a replacement. Then I decided to keep the dirt tire on the old wheel and built up a new wheel with new 5KW motor, including statoraid and hubsinks. The dropout needed to be increased to 150mm, hence I built the following adapter:

dropout2.jpg

the new adapter (7075 aluminum) is probably the strongest part of the bike now. With the statoraid and higher voltage I hope to get 8-10KW out of the motor.

I also installed a new chainring:
chainring.jpg

It looks pretty insane and is a bit too large - the chain slightly touches the seat stay. I should have taken 80T vs. the shown 85T version. With a bigger rear triangle this should not be a problem. I really did not think about clearance in this area.

A new 120A controller and 120A BMS are also installed. The bike moves, but somehow power is cuttoff when I reach about 20 amps - goes down to zero. Need to research that and hope to be riding soon.

Click to expand...

How did you figure out how to balance the whole rear wheel with the hub???? If anybody else knows how to do this please let us know thanks

I did it with my tubliss bike - but took off the balancing and honestly other than around 20km'h I cant tell that its unbalanced (20km'h being a harmonic). Even then its at the edge of perception... you can only just feel the ossilation only on perfectly smooth roads, within about 0.5km'h of 20km'h. Not worht the weight of balancing imo.

you could do so by trial and error, spinning and moving weights around till its balanced (suspend rear end of bike from an elastic cord and spin it up). Alternatively remove the side covers and rotor, reassemble without the stator and balance that way. More work than its worth IMO unless you're going really fast.

sleepy_tired · Oct 29, 2019

The old fashioned way to balance car tires was to use a machine that just let the tire teeter-totter then you'd add weights to make it even. You can still pick up a balancing tool from harbor freight that uses a bubble indicator. Not as good as a real balancing machine, but it'll get you in the right ballpark. Won't work with hub motors, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NFaL5QwFK8

Probably can do something like and hang the the wheel from the axle from a rope from the ceiling and use a a very level table and measure which side is heavier.

rollingfieldz · Oct 30, 2019

Merlin said:
19x1,4 + 2.75 tires are no problem

Thank you Merlin, I like the idea of using a rim on the narrower side so long as it works well, as I would think this gives the tire a taller profile and is so better for shock absorption, which for me is a priority along with a tire thats all purpose, flat resistant and stable at moderately fast (40ish mph) speeds. I was looking at 24 inch bike rims to pair with a 3 inch 24 inch Denzel E bike tire which seems practically unique in terms of its toughness. It seems like there's some strong wide 24 inch bike rims being made but it's hard to get your hands on one. The dominator 2 unicycle rim is sold out everywhere, and I cannot find a MTX 39 or the 50mm Alex rim they use for motopeds. Anyway 19x1.4 rims + 2.75 tires look like a great way to go. There are many more heavy duty tire choices and I think they will have 6mm hole that will work with the homes hobbies moped nipples to use 13 gauge spokes and nexus 3 hub. I am still looking for a good value 135mm bolt on or QR hub able to take 13 gauge spokes for the front.

Merlin · Oct 30, 2019

If you wanna comfort the rim has to be wide...
Wide rim = less pressure possible for the tire.
Less pressure = more comfort.

The difference in weight between 1.4 and 1.6 rim is not noticeable.

Most weight comes from the tire itself.

rollingfieldz · Oct 30, 2019

Merlin said:
If you wanna comfort the rim has to be wide...
Wide rim = less pressure possible for the tire.
Less pressure = more comfort.

The difference in weight between 1.4 and 1.6 rim is not noticeable.

Most weight comes from the tire itself.

Good point about the bigger rim allowing for lower pressure. It seems to me though, "if" the pressure was the same, the taller profile might be more comfortable, but maybe not. I'm looking for an all-around balance more so than optimize any one particular thing, I don't expect to be riding a very low pressures. It seems like since id be going half as fast and weigh a lot less than the tire is rated for i will have more leeway on the pressure than i would otherwise. For me the 1.4 over 1.6 is mostly about cost as opposed to weight. 1.4 is a little cheaper as are the Holmes moped nipples opposed to the bigger ones for the larger holes. I may go with the Wickedwheelwerks 1.6s anyway.

deadlyvirus · Nov 8, 2019

zombiess said:
Just another warning to watch your rim width when going to MC rims/tires. I purchased some 19x2.14" wide Warp9 wheels but did not fully understand the width until I received them already built from VoltRiders. They were WAY wider than I anticipated. With the tires mounted the 19x2.75" Shinko SR244 tires ended up being 3.3x" wide at the cross section! Luckily for me this was not an issue and everything fit my Greyborg Warp frame and DNM USD180 forks. The forks have the tightest fit with less than 1/4" clearance to the narrowest part of the down tubes.

I did not set out to build a fat tire bike but it is now what I have and it looks and rides AWESOME!

Be aware you will pay a weight penalty of around 5-10lbs per wheel when going to a MC setup, but the benefits are super long tire life, low chance of a flat tire (my main reason I went MC/Moped in the first place), a more cushioned ride (lower air pressure required), stronger spokes since it is now OK to build with spokes as thick as 8-10 gauge and far superior traction. Another upside I noticed is they loose air a lot slower so they require less frequent pumping. Yet another upside is that building a moped/MC setup costs about the same as a bicycle setup! Most rims/tires/tubes for moped/MC are the same or even cheaper than the same bicycle parts.

For reference in the last 3 years of bicycle riding i have experienced at least 10 flats between all my bikes when running bicycle tires. On bicycles with moped/mc tires I have had ZERO flats. Total miles on each type of setup is ~500.

For most bicycle setups I suggest not going larger than 19" as it is very hard to find a tire that will fit in 21". For 19" there are narrow (2.5") street tires available for old school dirt bikes and mopeds. Check out treatland.tv for some 19" street suggestions.

For those interested in the Shinko offerings, the SR241 is a 60% dirt / 40% street tire and the SR244 is a 60% street / 40% dirt tire from the many reviews I have seen.

Hello Zombie. I Saw your comment here. I was hoping if you could help me with checking and picking Warp9Racing RIMS. I really like how they look but I'm not sure if they are compatible with my build. please check out my Build Post here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103101

rockstar195 · Nov 11, 2019

I have an Enduro EEB, 72V, QS 205, 19" x 1.85" rims.

I'm going to replace the cheap chinese spokes and nipples on the front rim, as there is no play or flex because they are 10g spokes.

What would be the best gauge to use on the front rim - this is mainly a street bike, no offroading.
1) 12 G ?
2) 13/14 G (butted)? OR
3) Stick w/ the 10G?

Ianhill · Nov 11, 2019

I made a 12g front rim up and it was stiff as hell luckily I was using a fat tyre for some give on the road holding side, if i was you and can get the 13g butted then your golden it's the choice of the wise bit of give and comfort plenty of strength not gonna crack a rim from stress like with a 10g spoke.

rockstar195 · Nov 11, 2019

Ok 13g butted for the front.
What about for the rear? 12g or 10g?

I'm still using the 9g chinese ones on my Excel rim and will change them after I'm done with the front.

Ianhill · Nov 11, 2019

12g possibly, I used a 10g on a 2.15 rim rear and was heavy duty to the max same tyre type so lucky that flexed a bit turned a tyre with no sidewall support and dangerous to plausable with the rim but that was it's only upside I could find maybe others have a betrer experience but it felt like motorbike wheels on a push bike cuz that's exactly what it was more or less hope that helps.

rockstar195 · Nov 15, 2019

Can anyone else chime in if 12g will be ok for a 19" rear moto rim with a QS 205 hub for street use? Just concerned if it they will be too thin. Am trying to use a thicker gauge if I don't have to.

minde28383 · Nov 15, 2019

12g does not mean precise digits. Well, it does, but better find out what you buy in mm. It does not mater what geage it is, 12,11,10 will do fine. The chepper it is the more crap you get.
Maybe you rim spoke holes are too big for 12g spoke nipples? Find out your spoke nipple diameter and rim holes diameter. Find out if you will you need some washers or bigger diameter nipples what.

Rix · Nov 16, 2019

rockstar195 said:
Can anyone else chime in if 12g will be ok for a 19" rear moto rim with a QS 205 hub for street use? Just concerned if it they will be too thin. Am trying to use a thicker gauge if I don't have to.

If you are using a nipple that is at least 5.8mm barrel diameter, it will work great for most rims in the 19x1.40 range. If you are using a 19x1.85" wide rim, you need nipples with a 7mm barrel diameter for most standard punch hole sizes for that rim.

j bjork · Nov 16, 2019

If you buy a standard rim the spoke angle will probably be wrong, so you will have to modify the hole anyway.
Or maybe it works with too small nipples and washers.
Or you can order a rim with custom spoke angles, then you can probably order the hole diameter you want too.

DogDipstick · Nov 19, 2019

rockstar195 said:
Can anyone else chime in if 12g will be ok for a 19" rear moto rim with a QS 205 hub for street use? Just concerned if it they will be too thin. Am trying to use a thicker gauge if I don't have to.

They will be fine, and fit niceley. This is what I have. 19"x1.4" rim with "long" nips and 12Ga spokes from Yojimbos Garage on eBay.

11 Ga is a struggle to fit into the qs205 V1 I have. 10Ga would fit, but the powdercoat on the 36 hub motor holes would be drilled out for nice fitment.

rockstar195 · Nov 19, 2019

DogDipstick said:
rockstar195 said:

Can anyone else chime in if 12g will be ok for a 19" rear moto rim with a QS 205 hub for street use? Just concerned if it they will be too thin. Am trying to use a thicker gauge if I don't have to.

Click to expand...

They will be fine, and fit niceley. This is what I have. 19"x1.4" rim with "long" nips and 12Ga spokes from Yojimbos Garage on eBay.

11 Ga is a struggle to fit into the qs205 V1 I have. 10Ga would fit, but the powdercoat on the 36 hub motor holes would be drilled out for nice fitment.

I ordered my front sapim 13G butted spokes from Yojimbos on ebay on the 11th which was 8 days ago. He's probably busy as I haven't received a tracking number or any response to the messages I sent him.
I hope to hear something and get my spokes soon.

markz · Mar 1, 2020

The thicker the gauge wire works as a disadvantage, so 12G is good, but 12/13G would be even better.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are in the USA, then HomesHobby website is a good source for spokes and nipples. Not sure from the website if he custom cuts spokes anymore. https://holmeshobbies.com/bike-and-moped/spokes.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Likes its been mentioned in previous post in this thread, somewhere around page 35'ish, 2.50" tire and under will not be DOT approved. For all you highway cruisers out there who want DOT safety in tire.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me, I am on the hunt for bicycle like tires to fit 26" bicycle frame, using 19" mc rim.
Not many 19x1.20 rims available out there, only TreatlandTV Radaelli Italceichio chrome deluxe 36H 19x1.20 for $50 in stock. Same but 19x1.35.

Lots of 19x1.40 available for major dirt bikes, 150cc and below, front wheels. Outside width 50.20mm (Honda CRF150F)
1.20" = 30.48mm
1.40" = 35.56mm

I wonder how much narrower the 1.20" rim would really be, and is it really a concern when even the 1.40" can do 2.25" tires. Whats the availability of 2.00" and 2.25" tires like.
Treatland
mitas M-02 moped tire - 19 x 2.25 $28.99
continental white wall tire - 19 x 2.25 $69.00
hutchinson vroom moped tire - 19 x 2.00 $38.99
vee rubber VRM 013 moped tire - 19 x 2.25 $29.99
heidenau M3 moped tire - 19 x 2.25 $34.99

DogDipstick · Mar 1, 2020

markz said:
Likes its been mentioned in previous post in this thread, somewhere around page 35'ish, 2.50" tire and under will not be DOT approved. For all you highway cruisers out there who want DOT safety in tire.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mine is DOTappoved and 2.5"...

Lots of 19x1.40 available for major dirt bikes, 150cc and below, front wheels. Outside width 50.20mm (Honda CRF150F) You sure about this? CR rims are nice. Would be good to know.
1.20" = 30.48mm
1.40" = 35.56mm

Rix · Mar 2, 2020

markz said:
The thicker the gauge wire works as a disadvantage, so 12G is good, but 12/13G would be even better.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are in the USA, then HomesHobby website is a good source for spokes and nipples. Not sure from the website if he custom cuts spokes anymore. https://holmeshobbies.com/bike-and-moped/spokes.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Likes its been mentioned in previous post in this thread, somewhere around page 35'ish, 2.50" tire and under will not be DOT approved. For all you highway cruisers out there who want DOT safety in tire.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me, I am on the hunt for bicycle like tires to fit 26" bicycle frame, using 19" mc rim.
Not many 19x1.20 rims available out there, only TreatlandTV Radaelli Italceichio chrome deluxe 36H 19x1.20 for $50 in stock. Same but 19x1.35.

Lots of 19x1.40 available for major dirt bikes, 150cc and below, front wheels. Outside width 50.20mm (Honda CRF150F)
1.20" = 30.48mm
1.40" = 35.56mm

I wonder how much narrower the 1.20" rim would really be, and is it really a concern when even the 1.40" can do 2.25" tires. Whats the availability of 2.00" and 2.25" tires like.
Treatland
mitas M-02 moped tire - 19 x 2.25 $28.99
continental white wall tire - 19 x 2.25 $69.00
hutchinson vroom moped tire - 19 x 2.00 $38.99
vee rubber VRM 013 moped tire - 19 x 2.25 $29.99
heidenau M3 moped tire - 19 x 2.25 $34.99

If that 19x1.20 rim is steel, it will weight quite a bit more than a 19x1.40 aluminum. I would love to get my hands on an aluminum 19x1.20 rims. It would be perfect for any MC tire 3" or narrower. I have a couple of 17x1.20 wheels for a future build, the SR241 3.00-17 fits on them nicely.

markz · Mar 2, 2020

DogDipstick said:
markz said:

Likes its been mentioned in previous post in this thread, somewhere around page 35'ish, 2.50" tire and under will not be DOT approved. For all you highway cruisers out there who want DOT safety in tire.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mine is DOTappoved and 2.5"...

Lots of 19x1.40 available for major dirt bikes, 150cc and below, front wheels. Outside width 50.20mm (Honda CRF150F) You sure about this? CR rims are nice. Would be good to know.
Markz response - I just purchased a rim, Honda CRF150F, its used but it was cheap 19x1.40.
2.50" would be DOT approved, I cant remember the exact wording. Scooter tires 2 and 2.25 who knows wouldnt be DOT I'd G-U-E-S-S. Otherwise, I've been looking for a list of 19x1.40 and thats what I've found, lots of 80cc Suzuki's and Kawasaki's down and up from that in terms of cc's. 100cc's, Honda's 150cc. Key word is FRONT tire because backs are just too wide, like 1.60 wide is WM1.
1.5 WM0 - 1.6 WM1 - 1.85 WM2 - 2.15 WM3...... In terms of tire sizing. 2.25 is normal bicycle width, same with 2.00" normal bicycle width. So 1.20 wide rim vs 1.40 wide rim doesnt matter in terms of tire to rim fitment. Also remember that going from a 26" bicycle wheel to a 19" motorcycle wheel = 24" so there is going to be more room between the chain stays. I just got a flat today, again, last week now every 2nd day a flat, on bicycle gear. I looked at the damage, tire sidewall slit was pretty bad today. Before that, hemmroid slit. Before that I dunno but a flat non the less and I am fed up with flats. I dont care about weight penalty anymore. Steel, Aluminum it dont matter to me what material the rim is made out of. The problem becomes, cant swap front tire to back tire once go motorcycle rim on the rear, bicycle wheel on the front.
1.20" = 30.48mm
1.40" = 35.56mm

Click to expand...

QUOTE - I ride 80% on 20% off road with this bike so I don't need a chunky tire like the Shinko 244. Went with the Vee Rubber VRM 013 19" X 2.25". It is a 4 ply DOT rated tire for speeds up to 65 mph. Link below.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55458&p=1122142&hilit=DOT#p1122142
I like that tires tread, I will purchase that tomorrow from Blackfoot Motosports tomorrow. Key points I am looking for, 4ply and DOT rated. I'm not sure why DOT is what I want, but I assume its more durable and will last a very long time.
I am adding an ULTRA HEAVY DUTY TUBE, just because. I know they are like $20-$35 but fuckit.

One thing I was unsure of, is having a 26"x2.00 front wheel, with a MC 19x2.25 = 24x2.25 bicycle rear. It doesnt look that silly to me. Maybe more crank arm and pedal strikes going around corners and going over curbs.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55458&p=1122142&hilit=DOT#p1122510

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55458&p=986260&hilit=DOT#p986260
This is where I read the DOT sizing limits. But I swear I read it from a guru.

19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

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