2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

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Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

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Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » Mar 05 2021 6:22pm

BlueSeas wrote:
Mar 05 2021 2:44pm
Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair wrote:
Mar 05 2021 10:31am
BlueSeas wrote:
Mar 02 2021 8:57pm
When you get the motor simulation completed, the URL in your browser can be copied and pasted to a post. All the parameters will be included, and anyone can click on the link and see the results.

I did tinker with the simulator. At 100% throttle, it looked possible. However at partial throttle it looked hopeless. That said...I would try to make it work. Sounds like the parts are largely installed. If it doesn't work, then you can look at your options.
Thanks I didn’t think of that!!

Ya I think I understand the simulator. But I don’t understand the throttle setting..I understand wattage output on the graph. But than the graph changes so much when one changes the throttle setting. I thought the graph worked by showing what happens when the throttle moves from 0-100%-0
So I don’t get why it changes so much affecting the throttle toggle, I’ll have to go read that page again.
Take a look at this example:

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... e=4&hp=150

D2D51BF6-1BCC-4E36-8C66-D43B17AA8750.jpeg

If you click on the provided link it goes to the simulator preconfigured to something close to your configuration.

Things to note:

1) At 100% throttle 400 kg bike rider and trailer on a 4% grade:

a) the GMAC overheats in 25 minutes

b) battery amps is pretty balanced at 25/26.6. Easier to look at tables than the actual graphs

c) note range assumes 2 battery packs. So program the battery to 1/2 your pack.




d) tap/click on the graph to select a lower desired speed. The throttles will automatically reduce. Set to 21 kilometers per hour, about 50% throttle, no more overheating and a lower battery load. But not much more range. Note the Auto Throttle box (highlighted) is checked, that's what make this tap feature adjust the throttle setting to the speed selected.
whoa whoa whoa! im probably 500lbs not 400 kg! have to weigh myself precisely at the local dump still..but just my ebike diamond frame and me with all my tools before were 160-180 last time i checked..its emptied out now into the trailer..but full the trailer cant be lifted barely at all..so i imagine 300 lbs or so..and than 160lb me and 50/60 my bike and motors and batteries. and saddle bags
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

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Joined: Jan 09 2019 12:48pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » Mar 05 2021 6:27pm

this is my situation i think..

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... de&grade=7


just every time i move the cursor everything shifts on me
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

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Joined: Jan 09 2019 12:48pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » Mar 05 2021 6:32pm

or this? i changed the black curve from GRade to load...but its saying that going 20kph up a 7% grade hill with 450lbs i would only us e 5oo watts??? presently when attempting such..and sometimes im putting more Hwh like 400 while standing on pedals...im only ever going 9/10kph

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... &grade_b=7
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

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Posts: 60
Joined: Jan 09 2019 12:48pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » Mar 05 2021 7:32pm

ya i keep trying to make up my situation in the simulator and whenever i move the cursor it shifts the whole graph on me i don't understand why...

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... 7&mass=204

weird now its NOT shifting the whole graph every time i move my cursor along to change the speed at which i travel. but do notice that in the Acceleration bar its often a negative number....which is unnerving..
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

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Posts: 60
Joined: Jan 09 2019 12:48pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » Mar 05 2021 7:38pm

BlueSeas wrote:
Mar 05 2021 2:44pm
Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair wrote:
Mar 05 2021 10:31am
BlueSeas wrote:
Mar 02 2021 8:57pm
When you get the motor simulation completed, the URL in your browser can be copied and pasted to a post. All the parameters will be included, and anyone can click on the link and see the results.

I did tinker with the simulator. At 100% throttle, it looked possible. However at partial throttle it looked hopeless. That said...I would try to make it work. Sounds like the parts are largely installed. If it doesn't work, then you can look at your options.
Thanks I didn’t think of that!!

Ya I think I understand the simulator. But I don’t understand the throttle setting..I understand wattage output on the graph. But than the graph changes so much when one changes the throttle setting. I thought the graph worked by showing what happens when the throttle moves from 0-100%-0
So I don’t get why it changes so much affecting the throttle toggle, I’ll have to go read that page again.
Take a look at this example:

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... e=4&hp=150
Ya on this graph every time i move the load cursor the whole graph moves and changes...and i wonder why the weight per set up is different per bike and the Hwh is different per bike..
D2D51BF6-1BCC-4E36-8C66-D43B17AA8750.jpeg

If you click on the provided link it goes to the simulator preconfigured to something close to your configuration.

Things to note:

1) At 100% throttle 400 kg bike rider and trailer on a 4% grade:

a) the GMAC overheats in 25 minutes

b) battery amps is pretty balanced at 25/26.6. Easier to look at tables than the actual graphs

c) note range assumes 2 battery packs. So program the battery to 1/2 your pack.

d) tap/click on the graph to select a lower desired speed. The throttles will automatically reduce. Set to 21 kilometers per hour, about 50% throttle, no more overheating and a lower battery load. But not much more range. Note the Auto Throttle box (highlighted) is checked, that's what make this tap feature adjust the throttle setting to the speed selected.
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

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Joined: Jan 09 2019 12:48pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » Mar 05 2021 8:28pm

BlueSeas wrote:
Mar 02 2021 9:37am
amberwolf wrote:
Mar 01 2021 11:43pm
Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair wrote:
Mar 01 2021 9:52pm
I don’t understand looking at that CA screen how to tune the controllers unfortunately....
If you have only one CA, it only has one throttle output, so it can't tune two separate controller's throttle input voltages. That has to be done in the controllers themselves.

If both controllers don't have their own throttle input "tuning" settings in their setup programs (or if only one has a setup program), then you must first determine the throttle response range of the unchangeable controller. Then you need to setup the other controller's throttle input response range to match the unchangeable one. Then you setup the CA's throttle output to match that range.
Amberwolf please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this...I've never built a dual motor setup.

The issue is the Phaserunner is a torque controller, and the Grinfeon is speed based. Control for the motors is provided by a nominal 0-5V signal, with a hall throttle (most all), it's really more like a 1.2-4.5V range. So the throttle generates a signal and passes it to the CA3. Inside the CA3, there are many parameters where this signal can be modified to make the bike operate more smoothly, enforce limitations (speed, battery current, motor temp) and finally to integrate PAS. For discussion, you use the bike throttle to command 10%. So that turns out to be a 1.9V signal. To the Grinfeon, this equates to 10% of max rotation speed. To the PHaserunner, this means 10% of max torque. On the stand, one motor spins at 10%, the other spins at 100%, since 10% of max torque is sufficient to reach max RPM without a load.

The first tuning step is to make both motors start at the same signal level. For now, assuming you were happy with the original programming I would not change the programming of the CA3, except maybe to turn off proportional Ebrake regen if it's ON. And finally, I probably would set the CA3 throttle to PassThru for now. This may likely get set back to current later.

Then find this CA3 display:

505B219E-55CC-4EA3-AA85-20E9BD7D0B83.jpeg

It shows the throttle input and output voltages from the CA3. Note the throttle output voltage where the Grinfeon controller starts to spin the wheel. Note the voltage where the Grinfeon motor reaches maximum speed.

Then using the PC program it's time to program iteration 1 of the Phaserunner configuration to match the Grinfeon. Make sure you've already learned the motor and set the basic parameters for your battery. Then find this screen:

06C75237-6FC8-4101-9B2B-81C5C88B8220.jpeg

Set the brake active range to be lower than the minimum output voltage of the CA3 with the throttle completely off. Set the throttle active range to the voltages noted for the Grinfeon. Most important, while on the stand, make sure the throttle position where the wheels begins to spin is matched exactly, or as close as you can get. Make sure at full throttle both wheels look like they are spinning at their top speed. This full speed is subjective. The wheels won't spin at the same speed. That's OK, but they ought to spin smoothly.

If the Phaserunner is now primary, check the speed readout on the CA3. It's possible that this may need recalibration, the number of magnets pulsing the hall sensor per full rotation is likely different for the GMAC (per Grin it's 6) than the Crystalite. This setting is in the CA3 configuration.

The remainder of the tuning will be based on test rides, and a subjective analysis of how well the motors match up in operation. Here are a few things you can "tune"

1) The upper end of the Phaserunner throttle active range. It could be increased to slow the ramp up of the Phaserunner, or lowered to increase the ramp up. Don't change the low end so both motors start at the same point.
2) Current limit in the Phaserunner battery configuration. And all of the motor limits.
3) Finally after the above are as good as possible, you can go tinker with CA3 settings. Try current throttle mode. Try slowing/speeding the ramp up and ramp down parameters.
just to clarify the 3rd option you stated here, the ramp up and ramp down parameters, ive never seen that screen in the Ca3, sounds like your talking about the same Acceleration modification you were talking about in the PR via the
throttle active range.
Hope this helps! Good luck and let us know.
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

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Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » Mar 05 2021 11:02pm

tigcross wrote:
Mar 02 2021 11:47pm
Hi Matteo, I'm running two different motors with different controllers, One Phaserunner and the other the simple Grinfineon 40 amp. It works well, but I'm using the old way of hooking them up, which Grin's older stand-alone shunt that the power passed through on the way to the controllers and cycle analyst. I expect that this works better for different controllers as there is no guesswork about averaging R shunt values. https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle ... dualc.html The Grinfineon is a simple controller with no programing so it is always taking as much power as the cycle analyst will let it have, depending om the power setting I'm running. The Phaserunner is managing my front motor and is only allowed to draw a maximum of 700 W because I don't want to cook the smaller Bafang geared hub motor I'm running up front.

I expect that a big part of your problem is that the newer Y splitter is designed assuming that the user is running identical controllers. I have hooked up a customers dual motor system with the Y slitter system and it worked well, but they were identical controllers.

Im waiting on a new Phaserunner to arrive, then the things to do as i understand so far are.
Set the currents to be the same to balance the motors? if correct im not certain on how to select how much current to each motor... Blue Sea has been explaining it to me...and i think i understand i look at the current out when the motor starts moving and when its at top speed and set that as min and max in the PR's to be the same as the motor that would have the least values rather than the one with higher values and then it over working the lesser motor...no?

than, I want to understand how to know the limits of my regen braking for each motor...and...thats all i would have to do other than setting the Rshunt values.....i think?

to run both motors on my Torque PAs system.
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

BlueSeas   100 W

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Location: St Petersburg

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by BlueSeas » Mar 06 2021 12:03am

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair wrote:
Mar 05 2021 6:17pm
going to read throug this now but Blue Seas, I feel so SO SO happy your helping me so much! i hope i can somehow return the karma to the world someday or you somehow. heres my website if you ever want to check out what i do www.matteosbikerepair.com oh i have some good travel stories might entertain you from when i lived off my bicycle for 4 years cycling north and central america on the Adventours tab of my website. here's my fb page check out my Gf's new paint job to the trailer, www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/ and if you ever want a Safe Zone helmet mirror best helmet mirrors on the market in my mind and i'd be happy to send one to your address (im the only canadian distributor) or i could ship you Tannus Solid Tires if ever you wanted to buy a set to never get a flat again. oh Or 120 Db bicycle pump refillable air horns That i sell, the inventor and distributor is a toronto fella here. theyre great. id be happy to send you one on me also.
I'm retired, trying to help when I can is something I enjoy. Our travels were by boat, a two 1/2 year trip FL to Colombia via the Bahamas and eastern Caribbean, then Colombia back to FL via Central America. Our blog, a bit dated now, begins at:

https://marazuladventures.wordpress.com ... s-bahamas/

I hope you got to the end of the road in Panama (there are no roads between Panama and Colombia) and saw the San Blas Islands. That was the highlight of the whole trip for me.

And then continues covering part of the 3 years we spent traveling on our RV at:

https://rosyroadsadventures.wordpress.com/2017/06/

On this bus trip we had the pleasure of a couple weeks in the Toronto metro area. Prior to retiring from corporate flying, I got to Toronto several times, we usually used the little Toronto Island airport downtown if the weather was pretty good.

I appreciate all the offers, but will stick with an IOU for technical advice. I have a new fork scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I managed to install the original one, the frame kit had the right headset bearings in a plastic bag. This one should be a direct replacement with a straight steerer tube. But if it turns out to be tapered....I may need help selecting a new bearing kit. Or I'll collect the next time I get stuck on something....

One day hopefully we can swap travel stories over a cold beer.

BlueSeas   100 W

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Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by BlueSeas » Mar 06 2021 12:18am

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair wrote:
Mar 05 2021 7:32pm
ya i keep trying to make up my situation in the simulator and whenever i move the cursor it shifts the whole graph on me i don't understand why...

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... 7&mass=204

weird now its NOT shifting the whole graph every time i move my cursor along to change the speed at which i travel. but do notice that in the Acceleration bar its often a negative number....which is unnerving..
The graphs and the charts shown are for a steady state at the selected speed with the throttle auto checkbox selected. The negative acceleration is small, and a rounding error in the calculation and should always be near zero.

IF the throttle auto checkbox isn't selected, then the manual throttle setting would normally be 100%. Tapping/clicking on a new speed reports the power in use, acceleration passing through that speed with full throttle.

BlueSeas   100 W

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Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by BlueSeas » Mar 06 2021 12:26am

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair wrote:
Mar 05 2021 8:28pm
just to clarify the 3rd option you stated here, the ramp up and ramp down parameters, ive never seen that screen in the Ca3, sounds like your talking about the same Acceleration modification you were talking about in the PR via the
throttle active range.
Probably should have used terms closer to the manual. Ramp up and down refers to these parameters that set maximum voltage rise and fall rates on the CA3.
6F6F880B-9E40-41D9-8301-E7C2C00804EB.jpeg
6F6F880B-9E40-41D9-8301-E7C2C00804EB.jpeg (1.22 MiB) Viewed 383 times

BlueSeas   100 W

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Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by BlueSeas » Mar 06 2021 12:39am

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair wrote:
Mar 05 2021 6:32pm
or this? i changed the black curve from GRade to load...but its saying that going 20kph up a 7% grade hill with 450lbs i would only us e 5oo watts??? presently when attempting such..and sometimes im putting more Hwh like 400 while standing on pedals...im only ever going 9/10kph

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... &grade_b=7
Basically yes...

But That's only 18.3 kph and is 632W (have to look at battery amps, not phase).

Make sure weight includes bike, rider, trailer and trailer load.

The simulator does not account for the extra trailer tires and their rolling resistance. Nor the extra wind resistance, better off selecting Mountain Bike upright than Road bike.

BlueSeas   100 W

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Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by BlueSeas » Mar 06 2021 12:43am

whoa whoa whoa! im probably 500lbs not 400 kg! have to weigh myself precisely at the local dump still..but just my ebike diamond frame and me with all my tools before were 160-180 last time i checked..its emptied out now into the trailer..but full the trailer cant be lifted barely at all..so i imagine 300 lbs or so..and than 160lb me and 50/60 my bike and motors and batteries. and saddle bags
[/quote]

Well I guessed high, but in part to account for what the model doesn't get with 4 wheels and tons of wind resistance.

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

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Location: Toronto

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » Mar 06 2021 10:02am

BlueSeas wrote:
Mar 06 2021 12:03am
Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair wrote:
Mar 05 2021 6:17pm
going to read throug this now but Blue Seas, I feel so SO SO happy your helping me so much! i hope i can somehow return the karma to the world someday or you somehow. heres my website if you ever want to check out what i do www.matteosbikerepair.com oh i have some good travel stories might entertain you from when i lived off my bicycle for 4 years cycling north and central america on the Adventours tab of my website. here's my fb page check out my Gf's new paint job to the trailer, www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/ and if you ever want a Safe Zone helmet mirror best helmet mirrors on the market in my mind and i'd be happy to send one to your address (im the only canadian distributor) or i could ship you Tannus Solid Tires if ever you wanted to buy a set to never get a flat again. oh Or 120 Db bicycle pump refillable air horns That i sell, the inventor and distributor is a toronto fella here. theyre great. id be happy to send you one on me also.
I'm retired, trying to help when I can is something I enjoy. Our travels were by boat, a two 1/2 year trip FL to Colombia via the Bahamas and eastern Caribbean, then Colombia back to FL via Central America. Our blog, a bit dated now, begins at:

https://marazuladventures.wordpress.com ... s-bahamas/

I hope you got to the end of the road in Panama (there are no roads between Panama and Colombia) and saw the San Blas Islands. That was the highlight of the whole trip for me.

And then continues covering part of the 3 years we spent traveling on our RV at:

https://rosyroadsadventures.wordpress.com/2017/06/

On this bus trip we had the pleasure of a couple weeks in the Toronto metro area. Prior to retiring from corporate flying, I got to Toronto several times, we usually used the little Toronto Island airport downtown if the weather was pretty good.

I appreciate all the offers, but will stick with an IOU for technical advice. I have a new fork scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I managed to install the original one, the frame kit had the right headset bearings in a plastic bag. This one should be a direct replacement with a straight steerer tube. But if it turns out to be tapered....I may need help selecting a new bearing kit. Or I'll collect the next time I get stuck on something....

One day hopefully we can swap travel stories over a cold beer.
read some of your boat travels, sounds wonderful to be out on the water, my third year in USA I stayed with afella I met who was also cycling the country the year before on his 31’ boat in New Orleans working on it and living a board a couple months, sailed across lake ponchetrain was most sailing got to do, but was nice living on the bayou on north shore for several mo the also. My last name is Fajardo coincidentally.
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

CdnShaun   1 mW

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Joined: Jun 13 2020 8:28am

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by CdnShaun » Apr 26 2021 10:41am

My first day back here on Endless Sphere in a while (stepped away over the winter addressing health issues that are now behind me thankfully) and my first search turned up this amazing discussion.

Great to meet you all and I hope I can help out here as a fellow Dual Motorhead (haha!) ebike builder/rider.

Shoutout first however to amberwolf - We had some great discussions last summer when I built my first of two Dual motor setups and you were a TON of HELP. THANK YOU.

Matteo - I apologize if what I share here has already been discussed (tried to read the whole thread as best I could) but hope to add some gems and insights for you.

I'm also going to share about my second Dual Motor setup here as my first build is not quite done (much more complex) and will share about it when it's completely built and rolling/tested out properly.


First, here is a great video from Justin at Grin about Dual Motor setups:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub4EP2_mAds

From this video last year I learned of their dual controller cable for the CA3 which I was one of the first to ever order.

Here's the setup I went with and just last week got to take out for it's first test ride:

-2015 Surley Pugsley with front and rear 135mm wide mount points for the wheels/motors.
-Dual 9C RH212 (135mm width) 1500watt Hub Motors.
-Dual PhaseRunner Controllers
-CA3 Dual controller cable
-CA3 with multifunction switch, thumb throttle and ebrakes.
-Sempu 175mm bottom bracket torque sensing PAS
-EM3EV Jumbo Shark 14.8AH/52V battery - LG Cells capable of 44amp continuous, 55amp max, 60amp BMS cutout.

Notes about configuration
-Rshunt set to 0.500 mOhm and the battery consumption when compared to the bluetooth BMS is within 1-2% accurate.

-The Sempu BB PAS feeds the CA3 and it signals to the controllers/motors.

-Ebrakes are configured to only interrupt the controllers/motors when squeezed.

-Front wheel Phaserunner Regen settings are at Zero. I want manual braking of the front wheel only. Rear wheel Phaserunner is configured for gradual regen braking based on the throttle being used.
*Yes technically I can press the 'front' brake lever, not be pressing the rear brake lever and then apply regen braking to the rear wheel with the throttle. Real world I never press 'just' the front brake as I'm sure most others as well. This is why I added regen braking to the rear wheel only, as additional braking power basically.

-Each Phaserunner is set to 25amp max draw in respect to the single battery of this build. This still gives me up to 1,300watts per motor, 2,600watts total when needed.

-I picked up a Cycle Analogger (https://ebikes.ca/ca-log-gps.html) with GPS to try out this year and will share my results once I have them.


Ride experience notes

-As Justin explains in the video linked at the top, the battery capacity running dual motors 'all the time' sharing the workload 50/50 can not only achieve the same range as trying to run a single motor mostly then add in another - it can extend ranges if the primary motor is getting too hot and losing efficiency.

On this note, in both of my dual motor setups, carrying my 270lb rider weight and the bike themselves are 80lbs (this build) and 160lbs (my other build) - I have never seen over 45-50C temps even on the hottest days going up 14% grades at 40kmph. Yeah...it's amazing.

-Why did I build this 80lb beast?
Mud. Beach Sand. SNOW.

I started beach and winter riding 5 years ago on an acoustic fat tire bike. Last year I picked up a RWD Bionx fat tire bike and wow what a difference. Sure I worked less but I enjoyed more and I also rode much 'longer' overall spending all day out riding going through the multiple batteries I have.

There was still one major issue. Front tire push, not roll. Sand gets too deep, too soft. Even worse in snow. With a motor on the back I still kept running into trails I was exploring where the snow got too deep and I had to walk it through because I couldn't keep the front wheel rolling and the rear wheel from spinning out.

Now I have 1,300watts of dig deep and let's gooo up front to try out this year and I'm excited.

-The torque based PAS to the CA then the 2 matching hub motors works...amazing. I use the digital Aux to control the Human Watts to Motor Watts ratio of 0.00 to 4.00 in 0.5 increments. Most of the time I'm running 1.5x on flats slight hills and then when I want more...4.0....and if need even more - press the throttle and keep turning the pedals, feeling like a chubby superman.

-Related note I use Polar M650 bike computers and heart rate monitors. Even with my bikes doing so much of the work, I ride in the 125-155bpm range all the time with a max heart rate of 171bpm. At 6'0 and 270lbs currently (topped out at 320lbs in March 2019 which lead me to ebikes) the ability to ride anywhere and as long as I want is my investment to finally losing the weight and unhealthy lifestyle I lived for 20 years sitting at the desk.

-Other technical notes from my first test ride:
--Human Watts input around 130-180watts on flats and 300-400 on hills.
--Dual motor draw around 250-400watts on flats, 1200-1400watts on steep hills using PAS and 2,300watts on steep hills with throttle.
--14.8Ah battery has given me a 28km range of trails with about 20% capacity left and no effort to conserve battery life.

I wish I could show you the size of the grin on my face from my first ride. I rode out into a dried riverbed, bouncing around like a bronco rider, never lost traction. Some short 15-20% grade trail climbs I previously would need to reach at speed to be sure I wouldn't spin out at the top...I purposely climbed at a joggers pace just to feel that front wheel pulling me up.

Any questions please reply. I will try to log in more often and regularly now that I'm back riding again and look forward to sharing full build details of my two dual motor setups with everyone as well.

Matteo, great to meet you. Thank you for starting this awesome discussion thread.

Image

CdnShaun   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 17
Joined: Jun 13 2020 8:28am

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by CdnShaun » Apr 26 2021 10:42am

Quick note - once I figure out how to link to photos/upload photos I will include them in a post as well.

Cheers

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

1 W
Posts: 60
Joined: Jan 09 2019 12:48pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » May 02 2021 5:49pm

HEY SHaun! great to make your Virtual Acquainance as well!!

I havn't gotten around to tinkering with my dual motor set up as much as i would have liked recently, Mobile bicycle repair season is in full swing and im preparing to move to an new place in June.

and i don't have a laptop that will allow me to download the PR software so i always have to borrow from neighbour to look into things...gah..

CdnShaun wrote:
Apr 26 2021 10:41am
My first day back here on Endless Sphere in a while (stepped away over the winter addressing health issues that are now behind me thankfully) and my first search turned up this amazing discussion.

Great to meet you all and I hope I can help out here as a fellow Dual Motorhead (haha!) ebike builder/rider.

Shoutout first however to amberwolf - We had some great discussions last summer when I built my first of two Dual motor setups and you were a TON of HELP. THANK YOU.

Matteo - I apologize if what I share here has already been discussed (tried to read the whole thread as best I could) but hope to add some gems and insights for you.

I'm also going to share about my second Dual Motor setup here as my first build is not quite done (much more complex) and will share about it when it's completely built and rolling/tested out properly.


First, here is a great video from Justin at Grin about Dual Motor setups:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub4EP2_mAds

From this video last year I learned of their dual controller cable for the CA3 which I was one of the first to ever order.

Here's the setup I went with and just last week got to take out for it's first test ride:

-2015 Surley Pugsley with front and rear 135mm wide mount points for the wheels/motors.
-Dual 9C RH212 (135mm width) 1500watt Hub Motors.
-Dual PhaseRunner Controllers
-CA3 Dual controller cable
-CA3 with multifunction switch, thumb throttle and ebrakes.
-Sempu 175mm bottom bracket torque sensing PAS
-EM3EV Jumbo Shark 14.8AH/52V battery - LG Cells capable of 44amp continuous, 55amp max, 60amp BMS cutout.



Notes about configuration
-Rshunt set to 0.500 mOhm and the battery consumption when compared to the bluetooth BMS is within 1-2% accurate.

so one of my issues is when i set this to 0.5 it auomatically changes to 0.75 as soon as i exit the window....

-The Sempu BB PAS feeds the CA3 and it signals to the controllers/motors.

-Ebrakes are configured to only interrupt the controllers/motors when squeezed.

as opposed to engage regen braking?

-Front wheel Phaserunner Regen settings are at Zero. I want manual braking of the front wheel only. Rear wheel Phaserunner is configured for gradual regen braking based on the throttle being used.
*Yes technically I can press the 'front' brake lever, not be pressing the rear brake lever and then apply regen braking to the rear wheel with the throttle. Real world I never press 'just' the front brake as I'm sure most others as well. This is why I added regen braking to the rear wheel only, as additional braking power basically.

pardon i didnt understand that...so ebrakes on both wheels, but only regen on he rear? is that right? why so? why not just have regen on both wheels?

-Each Phaserunner is set to 25amp max draw in respect to the single battery of this build. This still gives me up to 1,300watts per motor, 2,600watts total when needed.


Oh! you can run single batteries with this? and btw if you werent aware i also have the splitter between 2 phaserunners from Grin, i believed it had to use two batteries! for me the benefit of 2x Batt's would be that when i arrive to charge at a customers home i can charge 2x as fast with 2x chargers rather than just trying to recharge one at 4 amp instead i can have 8 amps counstantly flowing in my direction!

-I picked up a Cycle Analogger (https://ebikes.ca/ca-log-gps.html) with GPS to try out this year and will share my results once I have them.


Ride experience notes

-As Justin explains in the video linked at the top, the battery capacity running dual motors 'all the time' sharing the workload 50/50 can not only achieve the same range as trying to run a single motor mostly then add in another - it can extend ranges if the primary motor is getting too hot and losing efficiency.

On this note, in both of my dual motor setups, carrying my 270lb rider weight and the bike themselves are 80lbs (this build) and 160lbs (my other build) - I have never seen over 45-50C temps even on the hottest days going up 14% grades at 40kmph. Yeah...it's amazing.

-Why did I build this 80lb beast?
Mud. Beach Sand. SNOW.

I started beach and winter riding 5 years ago on an acoustic fat tire bike. Last year I picked up a RWD Bionx fat tire bike and wow what a difference. Sure I worked less but I enjoyed more and I also rode much 'longer' overall spending all day out riding going through the multiple batteries I have.

There was still one major issue. Front tire push, not roll. Sand gets too deep, too soft. Even worse in snow. With a motor on the back I still kept running into trails I was exploring where the snow got too deep and I had to walk it through because I couldn't keep the front wheel rolling and the rear wheel from spinning out.

Now I have 1,300watts of dig deep and let's gooo up front to try out this year and I'm excited.

-The torque based PAS to the CA then the 2 matching hub motors works...amazing. I use the digital Aux to control the Human Watts to Motor Watts ratio of 0.00 to 4.00 in 0.5 increments. Most of the time I'm running 1.5x on flats slight hills and then when I want more...4.0....and if need even more - press the throttle and keep turning the pedals, feeling like a chubby superman.

-Related note I use Polar M650 bike computers and heart rate monitors. Even with my bikes doing so much of the work, I ride in the 125-155bpm range all the time with a max heart rate of 171bpm. At 6'0 and 270lbs currently (topped out at 320lbs in March 2019 which lead me to ebikes) the ability to ride anywhere and as long as I want is my investment to finally losing the weight and unhealthy lifestyle I lived for 20 years sitting at the desk.

-Other technical notes from my first test ride:
--Human Watts input around 130-180watts on flats and 300-400 on hills.
--Dual motor draw around 250-400watts on flats, 1200-1400watts on steep hills using PAS and 2,300watts on steep hills with throttle.
--14.8Ah battery has given me a 28km range of trails with about 20% capacity left and no effort to conserve battery life.

I wish I could show you the size of the grin on my face from my first ride. I rode out into a dried riverbed, bouncing around like a bronco rider, never lost traction. Some short 15-20% grade trail climbs I previously would need to reach at speed to be sure I wouldn't spin out at the top...I purposely climbed at a joggers pace just to feel that front wheel pulling me up.

Any questions please reply. I will try to log in more often and regularly now that I'm back riding again and look forward to sharing full build details of my two dual motor setups with everyone as well.

Matteo, great to meet you. Thank you for starting this awesome discussion thread.

Image
So otherwise, thanks for all the sharing!!!!

where im at now, is i have the second motor running (i found out i had had troubles just cause the baseplate of one of my batteries i guess!) but now i have to learn to balance the motors as it seems the gmac moves a whole lot more than the crystalyte ufo, and i have to figure out why the Rshunt value is jumping to 0.75...and borrow a laptop and send screen shots of the PR values to grin and find out again how to post photos here lol to double check with folk.

so far i just have the Crystalyte on the front of my bike creating drag..while i run the gmac, but im loath to take it off as that will remove the constant reminder that i need to get on with it lol!
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

CdnShaun   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 17
Joined: Jun 13 2020 8:28am

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by CdnShaun » May 03 2021 7:40pm

Hello Matteo, great to meet you as well!

I have answers and insights to help you out. :-)

The Rshunt issue jumping to 0.75 - I had as well. I found out to solve it you must change your settings from Watts to KWatts - It's a 'Low' or 'Hi' setting in the CA3.

You will then be able to set and save the Rshunt value at 0.500 mOhm. What changes is the reading is not longer in exact Watts (i.e. 343 Watts) rather in KWatts (0.34 for example). You lose the reading to the exact watts is the trade off but I found knowing I'm pulling .34 Kwatts, 1.23 Kwatts, etc - works just fine for my riding.

Regen Braking:
Part 1 - I run the ebrake levers into the single CA I have mounted. This means when I pull either lever (I have the dual pair) it is a safety feature that it drops the voltage to 0.49 ensuring the motors (both) disengage.

Technically when I then apply the thumb throttle (while braking) I could have it regen braking to both motors if I set it up in both controllers. Purely for my safety I do not want regen braking to the front wheel when considering wet conditions and such.

I use both brakes together typically but in difficult situations I will use just the rear brake to keep the front wheel turning for steering purposes. Make sense I hope?

Ultimately my disc brakes do most of the braking - for me the regen braking (applied with throttle) is only to have additional braking for steep hills, emergency braking, etc - in addition to the disc brakes.

Part of this this thinking is with so much Wh in my setup there is no value in putting a few watts back into the battery from regen braking.

Also the limit of 15Amps input into the single battery from either/both motors combined gives very little actual 'braking power' and is not worth it for me on my single battery build.

On my monster build with 6 batteries and 60-90Amps capacity for Regen braking - I will consider using it on the Rear Wheel motor and with the thumb throttle to control - having that extra braking for emergency braking, steep hill braking, saving the disc brakes wear - makes sense. I will let you know how it works out.

Single Battery for dual controller/motors

With the correct battery type you can run a single battery in a dual controller/dual motor setup. I purchased actually from Grin a pre-made dual battery Y Splitter, change the ends to the XT60's my setup uses and works amazing.
https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle ... cable.html

To achieve this setup you need to know the cells in the battery/batteries you choose to use.

The downtube battery I purchased is a 14 Series, 5 Parallel 52V unit. It has a BMS that can handle up to 60Amp draw. The cells are rated for 45Amp Continuous and 55Amp Max. The trade off is these cells work out to 12.3Ah capacity.

The same battery with a different cell type this 14S5P battery can offer 17Ah but with only a max draw of 34Amps - which is not enough for a dual motor setup.

On my Fat Bike setup I went with the single downtube battery to keep the weight in the middle of the frame and as light (haha, with dual motors and 1 battery it still reaches 70-80lbs) as possible and I generally ride for 1-2 hours on trails at a time.

I am ordering at least one more battery of this configuration (55amp max draw) to have a second in hand for going out for 3-4 hours of riding on trails or snow.

Battery Life

I totally relate to you about charging up on the go through the day and having 2 batteries to charge twice as fast when you do.

For me the fat bike is purely for fun on dirt and snow. I tested it this weekend past and I managed to get 40kms out of the 12Ah single battery with still 20% left - much better than I thought it would be so I'm super happy.

On my large bike setup I went with 6 batteries for 142Ah (7200Wh) good for 300-350kms - I will never charge mid ride, mid day - charge up over night for sure. That said this beast of a setup was expensive and reminds me of the massive cell phones with 1" thick batteries installed, lol.

For your reason of faster charging and longer capacity all day having dual batteries makes complete sense yet still simple as you connect one battery to each controller/motor.

My 6 battery setup will require parallel configuration (bus bars) which I'm working on next week...fingers crossed I don't mess anything up, lol.

1 motor vs 2 motor usage

What may amaze you is if you use both motors at the same time 'all the time' will still end up the same WH per Km as trying to not run the Crystalyte on the front wheel and dealing with the 'drag' you speak of.

My 2 x 9C RH212 setup showed 12-13Wh per KM *combined*. I run a single RH212 on another bike (road only) and it averages 11-12WH per KM with me, the same rider.

I was expecting 20Wh per KM or more from the 2 motors...but having them working together all the time is so efficent it creates as little as 10% overhead thus far in my testing.

...and the temps never breaking 45C is a great bonus.

So maybe run the motors together at all times and see what your CA3 tells you your WH per KM works out to be? Once you have the Rshunt setting corrected this will be a lot more accurate for you to measure different setups of your motors for sure.

Great to share the passion for these rather unique builds and big kudos to you making a mixed motor setup work like you have. If you're ever at a bike show or gran fondo event around the GTA with your setup I hope to meet you and bring one of my dual setups to share with you as well.

Cheers

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

1 W
Posts: 60
Joined: Jan 09 2019 12:48pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » May 04 2021 3:02pm

CdnShaun wrote:
May 03 2021 7:40pm
Hello Matteo, great to meet you as well!

I have answers and insights to help you out. :-)

The Rshunt issue jumping to 0.75 - I had as well. I found out to solve it you must change your settings from Watts to KWatts - It's a 'Low' or 'Hi' setting in the CA3.

Thanks!!!! low to hi setting..i dont believe i've ever noticed it in the CA, i've never connected it to a computer maybe its only in there? will have to buy the cable..unless its the same from the PR

You will then be able to set and save the Rshunt value at 0.500 mOhm. What changes is the reading is not longer in exact Watts (i.e. 343 Watts) rather in KWatts (0.34 for example). You lose the reading to the exact watts is the trade off but I found knowing I'm pulling .34 Kwatts, 1.23 Kwatts, etc - works just fine for my riding.

Regen Braking:
Part 1 - I run the ebrake levers into the single CA I have mounted. This means when I pull either lever (I have the dual pair) it is a safety feature that it drops the voltage to 0.49 ensuring the motors (both) disengage.

Technically when I then apply the thumb throttle (while braking) I could have it regen braking to both motors if I set it up in both controllers. Purely for my safety I do not want regen braking to the front wheel when considering wet conditions and such.

So both motors disengage, but front doesn't regen so as to avoid skidding the front tire and whiping out cause regen adds braking force?

I use both brakes together typically but in difficult situations I will use just the rear brake to keep the front wheel turning for steering purposes. Make sense I hope?

not really..maybe something i do intuitively but never thought about...

Ultimately my disc brakes do most of the braking - for me the regen braking (applied with throttle) is only to have additional braking for steep hills, emergency braking, etc - in addition to the disc brakes.

you apply regen with your throttle?!! oh ya ive heard of this i recall now, sounds complicated to me...i think id just set my ebrakes to go to regen automatically me thinks....

Part of this this thinking is with so much Wh in my setup there is no value in putting a few watts back into the battery from regen braking.

Ya, i will have 2x 16ah batteries at all times..and probably a third as a back up always there and can normally charge at a customers house 4/6 times a day for hour or so

Also the limit of 15Amps input into the single battery from either/both motors combined gives very little actual 'braking power' and is not worth it for me on my single battery build.

On my monster build with 6 batteries and 60-90Amps capacity for Regen braking - I will consider using it on the Rear Wheel motor and with the thumb throttle to control - having that extra braking for emergency braking, steep hill braking, saving the disc brakes wear - makes sense. I will let you know how it works out.

Single Battery for dual controller/motors

With the correct battery type you can run a single battery in a dual controller/dual motor setup. I purchased actually from Grin a pre-made dual battery Y Splitter, change the ends to the XT60's my setup uses and works amazing.
https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle ... cable.html

oh never knew, well i already have 3 16ah sharkpacks. so ill run with that.

To achieve this setup you need to know the cells in the battery/batteries you choose to use.

The downtube battery I purchased is a 14 Series, 5 Parallel 52V unit. It has a BMS that can handle up to 60Amp draw. The cells are rated for 45Amp Continuous and 55Amp Max. The trade off is these cells work out to 12.3Ah capacity.

The same battery with a different cell type this 14S5P battery can offer 17Ah but with only a max draw of 34Amps - which is not enough for a dual motor setup.

On my Fat Bike setup I went with the single downtube battery to keep the weight in the middle of the frame and as light (haha, with dual motors and 1 battery it still reaches 70-80lbs) as possible and I generally ride for 1-2 hours on trails at a time.

I am ordering at least one more battery of this configuration (55amp max draw) to have a second in hand for going out for 3-4 hours of riding on trails or snow.

Battery Life

I totally relate to you about charging up on the go through the day and having 2 batteries to charge twice as fast when you do.

For me the fat bike is purely for fun on dirt and snow. I tested it this weekend past and I managed to get 40kms out of the 12Ah single battery with still 20% left - much better than I thought it would be so I'm super happy.

On my large bike setup I went with 6 batteries for 142Ah (7200Wh) good for 300-350kms - I will never charge mid ride, mid day - charge up over night for sure. That said this beast of a setup was expensive and reminds me of the massive cell phones with 1" thick batteries installed, lol.

For your reason of faster charging and longer capacity all day having dual batteries makes complete sense yet still simple as you connect one battery to each controller/motor.

My 6 battery setup will require parallel configuration (bus bars) which I'm working on next week...fingers crossed I don't mess anything up, lol.

1 motor vs 2 motor usage

What may amaze you is if you use both motors at the same time 'all the time' will still end up the same WH per Km as trying to not run the Crystalyte on the front wheel and dealing with the 'drag' you speak of.

oh ya would have thought less efficient to have one not running...ive realized i think i can get away with just the Gmac to get up the steep hills that conquered me in the past. but i like the idea of having two motors in case a controller goes off or something *might even keep extra cycle analyst with me at all times* because being stuck downtown with a 300lb bicycle trailer would suckkkk, happened once and luckily my roomate had a cube van at that time from work..but not alway sthe case.

My 2 x 9C RH212 setup showed 12-13Wh per KM *combined*. I run a single RH212 on another bike (road only) and it averages 11-12WH per KM with me, the same rider.

I was expecting 20Wh per KM or more from the 2 motors...but having them working together all the time is so efficent it creates as little as 10% overhead thus far in my testing.

...and the temps never breaking 45C is a great bonus.

So maybe run the motors together at all times and see what your CA3 tells you your WH per KM works out to be? Once you have the Rshunt setting corrected this will be a lot more accurate for you to measure different setups of your motors for sure.

Great to share the passion for these rather unique builds and big kudos to you making a mixed motor setup work like you have. If you're ever at a bike show or gran fondo event around the GTA with your setup I hope to meet you and bring one of my dual setups to share with you as well.



Cheers
oh your in the GTA?? did you see my website? ive been hired for such rides before and i just fly around the 300km track on my ebike fixing folk up..i was working the Epic Tour Grand fondo couple years ago and a Mississauga one that Epic tour ran also. ya let me know if ever in Toronto. and if ever you want mechanical help for your bike i offer live video chat assistance to folk 647 879 7486.
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

CdnShaun   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 17
Joined: Jun 13 2020 8:28am

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by CdnShaun » May 06 2021 11:16am

Hello Matteo!

I'm about 2 hours outside of the GTA currently. Spent many years living and working there and still visit when life/work permits. I'm certain we will meet up someday in our travels now that we have connected.

To help you out with your Rshunt setting:

The Lo/Hi settings in the CA3 are done through the menu and two buttons, no computer needed. You go into setup and it's in the same screens that are for the Rshunt (and battery if I recall). I will send more exact instructions when I get home and see my bike next.

Basically you will see a setting right now that is 'Lo'....and you change it to 'Hi'. This will change the readout on the first main screen of your CA3 from ### Watts to #.### Kwatts. When you go into the CA3 setup and put in 0.500 mOhm for the Rshunt - it will save properly for you now.

Your Setup, My setup

That is quite the setup you have - 3 x 16Ah, 2 motors and a trailer full of equipment - brilliant idea. My setups are purely for long distance recreational riding. The prize of my battery collection is 6 x 23.8Ah hard shell batteries that are on my cargo bike - each time I post here I get more eager to share the full build/photos of it. Having that much battery life to work with is life changing, lol.

I have a lighter weight setup I'm building that will have a downtube 17Ah battery and if I want a 15Ah spare in the rear trunk. For longer rides (but not cargo bike all day rides) I plan to build a mount for this bike to have 2 x 23.8Ah batteries I borrow from the cargo bike plus the 17Ah downtube. should be good for up to 180kms with no trailer is my hope.

Regen braking:

The amount of Amps your feed back into the battery/batteries will reflect in the braking power/experience.

At only 10-15Amps (capped in the controller typically) the braking power is about 10-20% of what the disc brake on the same wheel provides.

With a single battery to multiple motors or even a single battery to each motor creates the limitation of regen braking to be up to the 15amp mentioned and only value is a bit of 'on the go' charging to the battery (say 2-5% over an hour of typical riding) - but hey, why not? You're braking anyways when you need to right?

For me, having the rear wheel hub motor in my setup have access to 6 batteries in parallel allows me to feed up to 60Amps, technically 90Amps.

By 'accident' when I first built my bike and didn't understand the controller settings I had the motor to a single battery set for 40Amps - on a few test rides I squeeze the brake lever which pushed the full 40Amps to the battery and WOW - the braking power was equal to the disc brake if not more.

I'm thankful I didn't blow anything up when I did this testing, lol.

In the controller setting (via computer cable) you can modulate the regen braking using the throttle. My setup is 1% is at 0.49V and 100% is at 0.00V which is modulated by the throttle.

I happen to install the throttle on my left side of the handlebars. This was partly by design that I am most certain going to let go of the throttle (if in use) before squeezing the front wheel brake due to muscle memory of how dangerous that is.

Also if I ever did squeeze the brake levers (either technically activate the regen braking) while holding the throttle down full, the motors would cut out of course and the braking is applied to the rear wheel only - keeping the front wheel rolling/steering at all times.

Multiple Hub Motors

Having human power plus two hub motors when riding 'heavy' like we do is so amazing. If I have a mechanical issue - my last ride out my left crank arm came loose 10kms from home - just throttle and use the motors to get home.

If we have one motor fail, the other motor has enough watts to get us home or at least somewhere safe. Even with a chain brake and a failed motor we still have one motor left to keep us going.

Flat tires with a 2WD system...well that's a different story, lol.


I have checked out your website and appreciate your number. I think what you are doing is absolutely amazing. I will be sure to tag you in my build posts here so you can see what I have built and if there is a chance this summer - like you're at an event or a location working and I can come by to meet you I will make the trip in.

So if you see a car pull up with a utility trailer carrying a 180lbs cargo ebike and a Burly Coho XC trailer being offloaded and coming over to you, you know it's me.

Cheers bud

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair   1 W

1 W
Posts: 60
Joined: Jan 09 2019 12:48pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair » May 09 2021 10:32am

Thanks for all the Info! be great to meet ya, so for avoiding flat tires i recommend you check out Tannus Armour Liners, i've never gotten a puncture in 20k of riding using them. and solid tires for applications where your not carrying a lot of weight.


theyre the best thing on the market so far that ive seen. otherwise the Safe Zone helmet mirror i sell as well as the Airzound bike pump refillable air horn if you dont have E horn or want spare non electrical back up horn. are also great. horn i and MEC sell, the Safe zone helmet mirror im one of the only canadian Retailers.
Here's my growing little service & fleet of Ebikes (3x) that tow me and my 500lbs of Bicycle/body/bicycle tools around 5 days a week 50 odd km a day! :)
1 Elf by organic transit, 1 diamond steel Frame soon to be 2WD with Gmac/Crystalyte together hopefully.
and one Terra Rover with Ezee motor

www.matteosbikerepair.com
www.facebook.com/matteosbikerepair/

CdnShaun   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 17
Joined: Jun 13 2020 8:28am

Re: 2WD install/set up advice appreciated.

Post by CdnShaun » May 11 2021 7:16pm

Matteo's Mobile Bicycle Repair wrote:
May 09 2021 10:32am
Thanks for all the Info! be great to meet ya, so for avoiding flat tires i recommend you check out Tannus Armour Liners, i've never gotten a puncture in 20k of riding using them. and solid tires for applications where your not carrying a lot of weight.


theyre the best thing on the market so far that ive seen. otherwise the Safe Zone helmet mirror i sell as well as the Airzound bike pump refillable air horn if you dont have E horn or want spare non electrical back up horn. are also great. horn i and MEC sell, the Safe zone helmet mirror im one of the only canadian Retailers.
Hello Matteo!

I found out about Tannus liners over the winter and plan for my 2 road bikes for sure.

Question for you - did you order direct or from a supplier, can you supply them, etc?

I'm a big fan of Hafny Handlebar Mirrors. Started with just a left mirror and then upgraded to having the right to have the pair on both sides. The large/wide format model reminds me much of the view we are used to when driving our cars and feels really natural.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01AVH ... UTF8&psc=1

Airzound is my horn of choice as well. I have a small bell for slow, polite interactions with others...say on a bike path or trail...and the horn is there when I need to get someone's attention...I can still remember seeing in my side mirror a car coming up on me with the lady looking down at her phone...Airzound basically saved my life that day.

Look forward to your insights on sourcing Tannus liners when you have time to reply. Hope you stayed warm today and looking forward to the better weather finally coming this weekend.

Cheers

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