Perfect Setup Help Needed for Hub 205 with 12f 24f

Lorantj · Aug 31, 2019

Hi.

I am looking to build a qs 205 hub motor into the rear wheel of a ccm full size 26 or 27.5 in or 29 inch rear wheel.
My question is if I use the 205, which version do I need from qs, what Nucular module would i want to use 12f or 24f, and what kind of battery do I need to be able to go 150kms distance max, at a speed of 50kms normal riding, sometimes up to 90kms, and have great lower end torque?

If one of you could maybe help me out with calculations, that would be very much appreciated.

No parts have been bought at all, so I am open to great ideas or changes in my plan. I do need to go a minimum 150 kms distance, without blowing stuff up, and I dont have to stick to the 205 either.

Thank you

litespeed · Sep 1, 2019

If using a bicycle frame you might want to look at the MXUS.

In my opinion regular bicycle rims/tires are not good candidates for the QS205 which is such a heavy motor. Flats will get old for you. With the amount of distance you need/want and speed you desire you may want to think about a Vector style bike frame. You can use motorcycle wheels/tires and downhill bike parts that can hold up to the weight your going to have and heavy enough components to stop you safely.

That said, I would tell you to go with a 3T which I have but it’s in a 17” motorcycle rim. If your going 26, 27.5 or 29 you probably want the 4T or 5T.

12F would work but be on the edge.....24F would be best long term.

Battery would need to be a minimum of 20s15p of good 3000 milli-amp cell like 30Q....my favorite. Might need to go 20s20p for that speed/distance.

Probably need to have your budget in mind to see if what you want to do is affordable/doable.

Tom

Lorantj · Sep 1, 2019

Maybe I should look into mounting the 205 into a 18l9 inch rim. But then again, what battery am I after to get that speed, distance? Thanks

litespeed · Sep 1, 2019

Looks like you would need about 4000 watt hours is what I would guess. 150 kilometers is right under 100 miles and I figure you’d average about 40 watts per mile equals 4000 watt hours.

That would be a 20s18p of 30Q cells.

Tom

Lorantj · Sep 1, 2019

Tom, thanks for the help so far. I am new in the community, so that is why I am asking so many questions. Do you recommend building on an existing frame (aka bike or build my own)?

I can do both as I am quite skilled in fabricating and welding.

Also do i want to buy a vector frame or build one.

I have a full family and life is busy, so I have to take that into consideration.

What about front shocks for the vector frame? Where do you get those?

I think you loose a lot of power when you have full suspension, as some motion is absorbed by shocks and springs.

Thank you

Lorant

litespeed · Sep 2, 2019

For what you are wanting to do a Vector or similar frame is your best bet in my opinion.

Front forks you can get anywhere, bike shops, eBay, pinkbike......I’d recommend dual crown only!

You do not loose a lot of power from full suspension unless your referring to peddling. That is what suspension lock outs are for.

With what your wanting to build.....you’ll never notice. Here is a picture of mine,

Tom

Grantmac · Sep 2, 2019

If you want to safely go above 40km/h then suspension is mandatory.

If I was going to fabricate a frame it would get a mid-drive using one of the QS mid motors. That can remove a lot of weight, especially from the rear wheel.

HK12K · Sep 2, 2019

With a 20ah 20s pack my qs205 powered bike will consistently do 50km at an average speed of around 30kph. Granted, my area is mountainous and I'm no featherweight.

For that kind of range and speed you'd best be prepared to equip it with a sizable battery. Also I would forget completely about ever attempting to go anywhere near 100kph on a CCM bicycle or anything commonly found in Canadian Tire or Walmart.

You didn't mention where you're from, but you may want to check ebike laws in your area before you start buying stuff. If you plan on riding a bicycle on the streets at 50-100kph expect to meet your local constabulary, likely sooner than later. Food for thought anyway.

999zip999 · Sep 2, 2019

A lot of people who start out get too big of motor to Big controller and too small of a battery for what they expect the bike to do. Or bigger battery and proper size controller. I agree that is a big and heavy motor for a bike. I have a muxus 3,000 and it's heavy not as heavy as a 205. Plus you might use an older comoly steel frame with two torque arms. Plus how much do you want to spend.

Lorantj · Sep 2, 2019

Maybe mid drives gives better efficiency? I don't want to go over 80km/h by any means, but if you have an o shit moment I might need speed. How about average of 60km/h and wanting to 200kms distance. I wonder if it's better to build a frame from scratch by a frame from vector or utilizes 30 frame that's already pre-made.

Grantmac · Sep 2, 2019

Buy a recumbent or a Zero, a bicycle isn't going to work.

Lorantj · Sep 2, 2019

Ok. I pass on the bicycle idea. Do I want to order a 205, with 19 inch rim, 12f, and 20ah 20s. Vector style frame. Or have a kit frame, or build mine from scratch?

Lorantj · Sep 2, 2019

I really like what Tom has. I would like to replicate that with range in mind. Why is no one fond of the 205?

Lorantj · Sep 2, 2019

I don't want to do illegal stuff, but I was also thinking about having fun with it on the race track, but I scratched out that idea quick. I just want to have something that has lots of balls and distance.

HK12K · Sep 3, 2019

I love my qs205, but 20ah likely isn't going to cut it for the range you're talking about on this style of bike. If it were built as a light lowish-speed pedal bike with e-assist and you were providing constant pedal input you might get there, but on something that resembles a motorcycle with pedals you'd probably need 3 times the ah to get the range you're looking for. Even then 60ah might not be enough to go 150km at 60kph, especially if your area happens to be mountainous. Ymmv, literally.

Lorantj · Sep 3, 2019

Is it real that a 20s20p, cost 2400usd?that seems like a lot

HK12K · Sep 3, 2019

400 cells at $3-5 a pop, plus supplies, labor, and shipping. It adds up quickly, especially if you aren't assembling it yourself. It's pretty much the most important (and expensive) part of the build though. No juice, no joy.

Lorantj · Sep 3, 2019

I think I'll go mid drive. Makes much more sense to me. I can utilize the motor the way I want plus I can change ratios easily

Lorantj · Sep 4, 2019

Of I'm using the vector frame 20p20s, 24f, is the 205 the right motor? If yes, which 205 would be best

HK12K · Sep 4, 2019

Lorantj said:
Of I'm using the vector frame 20p20s, 24f, is the 205 the right motor? If yes, which 205 would be best

Debatable, but I from what I've discerned from reading here at ES I 'd say if you live somewhere that's dead flat, have no intention of really pointing it uphill and have a need for speed a 50H 3T or 3.5T. Low to moderate hills but still need speed, 4T. If you have any actual grades in your area which you plan to climb go 5T, which is still plenty fast imho.

Bear in mind that you will likely be relegated to single speed because of the motor width on the 50H model so the pedals will only be usable through a narrow range of the bikes overall speed. Likely from 0-20kph or so before you spin out unless you gear it to pedal at higher speeds, (assuming you actually pedal) in which case you will be unable to pedal it un-powered should the need ever arise.

If you plan to pedal at all times, things get more tricky.

Lorantj · Sep 11, 2019

I placed the order for a 205 4t, Kelly 7230s, and kids at need to figure out how to build my battery and what configuration. Is there a website where it tells you how to configure your setup. Also at 72v then I'm looking at 60ah to get my range? Thanks

John in CR · Sep 11, 2019

For the frame question, it depends how you will use the bike and whether you will actually pedal. For street only use I'd go with a longer wheelbase with a lower overall ride height for a more comfortable ride with less wind resistance. If your roads are good then there's no reason for large diameter wheels, and smaller hubbies create more thrust and run more efficiently in a smaller diameter wheel. Consider a rear rack with a solid horizontal panel that doubles as a rear fender. Then you have a place for groceries, cargo, or a passenger, as well as a place a range extender battery for the extra long rides. There's no use carrying all that extra battery weight for daily riding. For long range cruising at 50-60kph aerodynamics is critically important, so be sure to address that in your build, and if you plan frequent long range cruising, then you really should consider a recumbent or velomobile.

Lorantj · Sep 11, 2019

I'm looking at the Norco Sasquatch mountain bike and just use an as-is with a 205 Hub in the back. This is my first trial run building an electric vehicle using a mountain bike slash Beach bike. If need be I can always build a frame there, date the battery shape and simplify things overall. If I don't like the Norco frame I will build my own frame.

Lorantj · Sep 11, 2019

Where would I get or find bicycle headstock and bottom bracket I could I could find a bottom bracket online but I cannot find the Hat stock unless it's called something else? Thanks guys

John in CR · Sep 12, 2019

Lorantj said:
Where would I get or find bicycle headstock and bottom bracket I could I could find a bottom bracket online but I cannot find the Hat stock unless it's called something else? Thanks guys

I'm cheap and have access to a lathe, so I DIY. eg I found some thick wall tubing and removed excess material to make 10 headtubes that fit standard size headset bearings. I like to use headtubes as long as possible for a given fork steer tube, because it helps create more battery space. I get bottom brackets from junker steel bikes. They're commonly too short for my needs, but I simply splice a length of tubing in the middle to increase the length and retain the treading that I can't duplicate thanks to the jerk bike builders 100 years or so ago who didn't want regular metal working shops as competition, so they colluded to make non-standard threading the standard for all threaded bike parts.

I've never purchased from them but there are some frame building supply stores that sell online. Here's one https://framebuildersupply.com/collections/head-tubes...a bit expensive for my taste, so I accept the slight weight penalty of my DIY solutions, which are also closer to motorcycle strength.

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