Blown halls

E

ebike11

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Hi guys
I have a question about hall sensors. I have an MXUS 3000w turbo motor and I used one of those white ebike testers on it to find out why the motor isnt working. The phase wires seem to work properly as the lights on the tester light up..but when I connect either set of hall sensors to the tester (the MXUS has 2 sets of halls), the lights on the tester dont light up.

Is it possible to use a sensorless controller on the motor and just only use the phase wires? Or would I need to replace the halls? Ive never done that before so thats why Im wondering if a sensorless controller will work.

Thanks in advance!
 
It'll work sensorless if the controller has that capability, but it will run better if you repair the halls and run it sensored.
 
I would be tempted to check for continuity of the hall wires. ive never blown a hall sensor, its always been the motor cable where it passes through the axle gets damaged.if you don't have a dmm maybe try hooking the ebike tester back up and wiggle the cable at the axle and see if the lights give a flash. there might be a broken wire there, just hook it up and wiggle test the wires all the way to the halls
 
ive never used those testers but youd think atleast some kind of lights would go on, maybe its the red or black hall wire that's broken
 
goatman said:
I would be tempted to check for continuity of the hall wires. ive never blown a hall sensor, its always been the motor cable where it passes through the axle gets damaged.if you don't have a dmm maybe try hooking the ebike tester back up and wiggle the cable at the axle and see if the lights give a flash. there might be a broken wire there, just hook it up and wiggle test the wires all the way to the halls
Click to expand...

Hi there again...there are 2 sets of hall wires and neither light up on the tester..would they be sharing the positive and negative inside the motor?
 
It doesn't look like it as per a wiring picture I've seen, as each set has it's own Red and Black...

Have you tried your testing box on a motor with known good halls?
 
If the bike stopped working and the tester says the halls are dead a cursory test with a dmm should confirm it I'd think. The question of why they failed springs to mind however. Wiring issue (likely where the wires pass through the axle as earlier mentioned) or were they cooked due to overheating?

I've never opened one of those so no idea if they share any wires internally, but I'm certain someone here has. Regardless of whether they respond with an answer or not, if you confirm the halls are dead you're going to have to open it up so you'll be able to find out yourself unless you outsource the repair.

If this turns out not to be a severed wire and is in fact a result of cooking them, I'd suggest you install a temp sensor if there isn't already a functioning one present. Assuming things aren't too far gone in there. Instead of investing in a sensorless controller invest in one that monitors motor temps and can pull power when necessary to save you from cooking it again, with the possibility to run sensorless if needed. imho anyway.
 
got this picture

https://kinayems.com/assets/img/prodshots/Motors/MXUS.3K.Turbo.Stator0.jpg

from here

https://kinayems.com/Archive/Products/DriveTrainsMotors/MXUS_3K-Turbo

looks like only 3 wires on the halls so theres a junction somewhere where the hall wires meet and split. id look there
 
saw this picture

https://kinayems.com/assets/img/prodshots/Motors/MXUS.3K.Turbo.Stator2.jpg

2 sets of halls so they should have their own wires, right. so 6 blown hall sensors? on a lightly used motor?
 
goatman said:
saw this picture

https://kinayems.com/assets/img/prodshots/Motors/MXUS.3K.Turbo.Stator2.jpg

2 sets of halls so they should have their own wires, right. so 6 blown hall sensors? on a lightly used motor?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pics
I used a multi meter and tested both positive and negative hall wires with the motor connected to a controller and battery after following the ebikes.ca guide. The voltage on both sets are 4.65V so I think thats good. They said anywhere between 4 and 5V.
Tomorrow Ill test the 3 wires on both sets
 
goatman said:
saw this picture

https://kinayems.com/assets/img/prodshots/Motors/MXUS.3K.Turbo.Stator2.jpg

2 sets of halls so they should have their own wires, right. so 6 blown hall sensors? on a lightly used motor?
Click to expand...

I tested the colored halls as described on the ebikes.ca learn pages.
When I touch the black with any of the 3 colored halls wires on BOTH sets, i get a reading of 5V..however when I spin the wheel slow or fast..the voltage does not change and stays at 5V.
Does this mean the halls are bad?? Is there another way to test them? Thanks
 
youre going to have to open up the motor and have a look, I think HK12K suggesting the motor got overheated and cooked the halls is the most logical explaination for having 6 halls fail.

the only other test id try would be to unplug the hall connection, motor/controller and with the controller turned on id test the black to green,yellow, blue hall wires from the controller to make sure its not the controller.
 
goatman said:
youre going to have to open up the motor and have a look, I think HK12K suggesting the motor got overheated and cooked the halls is the most logical explaination for having 6 halls fail.

the only other test id try would be to unplug the hall connection, motor/controller and with the controller turned on id test the black to green,yellow, blue hall wires from the controller to make sure its not the controller.
Click to expand...
Ok thanks for the tips!!
 
goatman said:
youre going to have to open up the motor and have a look, I think HK12K suggesting the motor got overheated and cooked the halls is the most logical explaination for having 6 halls fail.

the only other test id try would be to unplug the hall connection, motor/controller and with the controller turned on id test the black to green,yellow, blue hall wires from the controller to make sure its not the controller.
Click to expand...

I opened up the motor and the halls are 41F..so i ordered a bunch from aliexpress. It will likely take a while to get here. Hopefully it will do the trick
 
A hall stuck at 5vdc would indicate a bad sensor, or loss of ground. Couldn't hurt to verify having a proper ground from sensor to connector, checking wire and connections. Then thru connector back to controller...

EDIT: Just saw your interior motor pictures. I'd sure be interested if there is something like a fusible temp link inside that white
cocoon surrounding the ground wire just off the sensor (middle sensor leg)...
 
TommyCat said:
A hall stuck at 5vdc would indicate a bad sensor, or loss of ground. Couldn't hurt to verify having a proper ground from sensor to connector, checking wire and connections. Then thru connector back to controller...

EDIT: Just saw your interior motor pictures. I'd sure be interested if there is something like a fusible temp link inside that white
cocoon surrounding the ground wire just off the sensor (middle sensor leg)...
Click to expand...

Thx for the reply!
Ok Ill check it out
Also is there a way to check for a bad sensor when the motor is OUT of the wheel? I did the spinning test before but Id like to retest the halls to make sure they are for sure damaged.
Thanks
 
With the motor out of the wheel assembly, just use a magnet at the sensors face to switch the output(s) on and off. (5vdc-0vdc) The key is... one polarity turns it on (one end/side of the magnet. And the opposite polarity (other end/side) turns it off.
I'd also provide my own power and not use the controller, just to eliminate possible problems there or with the connection. I like to use a cell phone rechargeable auxiliary back-up battery. (~5vdc) But 3-1.5vdc brand new batteries in series should work.
This will require adding a resistor (10K) between the 5vdc+ input and the sensor out wire to provide the pull-up resistance... all seen and explained in beautiful color here.

https://electricbike.com/forum/foru...nsor-testing-without-using-a-motor-controller

Did you check if the Black ground wires are sound yet? (no opens or breaks in continuity)

Staying positive! Go get em :!:


UCUFBRy.jpg


0oA0dVS.png
 
I read somewhere that the number 2 hall sensors had issues and I noticed in the last pic of your other thread the number 2 sensor isn't even epoxied in its slot, its just hanging there. did it just come out?

ive never had to replace a hall sensor but I heard of a trick using a magnet in a plastic sandwich baggy. when you glue the sensor in its slot you put the magnet in the baggy and put it ontop of the sensor to hold it flush with the surface til it cures. you just don't want it sticking out of the surface, I think if you go back to the grin technologies/ebike page for trouble shooting the halls. I think they explain it there in the replacing hall sensors section
 
goatman said:
I read somewhere that the number 2 hall sensors had issues and I noticed in the last pic of your other thread the number 2 sensor isn't even epoxied in its slot, its just hanging there. did it just come out?

ive never had to replace a hall sensor but I heard of a trick using a magnet in a plastic sandwich baggy. when you glue the sensor in its slot you put the magnet in the baggy and put it ontop of the sensor to hold it flush with the surface til it cures. you just don't want it sticking out of the surface, I think if you go back to the grin technologies/ebike page for trouble shooting the halls. I think they explain it there in the replacing hall sensors section
Click to expand...

Hi again...oh I removed the hall from the slot myself.
Is it also ok to use a bit of super glue on the flat side of the hall sensor to hold the sensor in place instead of high temp silicone?
Thanks!!
 
ive never replaced a hall but when I asked here what to use most members said use jb weld or high temp jb weld.

if youre going to run high amps you might want to get about 15ml statorade or ferrofluid to help shed the heat from the motor
 
A dab of any epoxy is sufficient for the hall sensors to stay in place.

Its nice to have a Sensorless controller as a spare.
 
can damaged halls make the the motor totally dead and not move at all? My phase wires are ok and they show up working fine with the tester, but with the phase and hall connectors connected, there isnt even a grunt or the slightest of movements. Totally dead. Can bad halls make this happen? I figured with good phase wires that there should be some sign of life :?: :?:
 
ebike11 said:
can damaged halls make the the motor totally dead and not move at all? My phase wires are ok and they show up working fine with the tester, but with the phase and hall connectors connected, there isnt even a grunt or the slightest of movements. Totally dead. Can bad halls make this happen? I figured with good phase wires that there should be some sign of life :?: :?:
Click to expand...
Yes, depending on the controller. If the controller sees an invalid hall signal combination, it won't even try to power the motor. Depending on the motor's position, you might get a valid combination and you would see the motor at least twitch a little. Using a voltmeter, you can measure the 3 hall signals and see if you have a valid combination. Valid combination is pretty much anything except all 3 high or all 3 low.
 
fechter said:
ebike11 said:
can damaged halls make the the motor totally dead and not move at all? My phase wires are ok and they show up working fine with the tester, but with the phase and hall connectors connected, there isnt even a grunt or the slightest of movements. Totally dead. Can bad halls make this happen? I figured with good phase wires that there should be some sign of life :?: :?:
Click to expand...
Yes, depending on the controller. If the controller sees an invalid hall signal combination, it won't even try to power the motor. Depending on the motor's position, you might get a valid combination and you would see the motor at least twitch a little. Using a voltmeter, you can measure the 3 hall signals and see if you have a valid combination. Valid combination is pretty much anything except all 3 high or all 3 low.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks..ill try the motor on a sensor/sensorless controller to see if it will move at all with just phase wires. I think my halls are bad so Ill replace them if they are
 
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