Please help with next step troubleshooting!

meisel

10 mW
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
20
Hi everyone! Not long ago my e-bike was working fine then my battery was stolen. I decided as i had to get a new battery i would upgrade to a higher capacity one as i often travel long distances with heavy load.

The problem is i've know spent several weeks trying to get my e-bike to start with the new battery and im lost on what i should do next to troubleshoot. I've contacted pretty much every bike repair center in my town but most dont work with e-bikes and those who do just do certain brands so im pretty much left on my own.

The parts on the bike is:
Motor: Bafang RM G06 48v 500w (https://www.cnebikes.com/product/500W-BAFANG-G06-FAT-TYRE-MOTOR-KIT.html)

Battery: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Promotion-48V-17-5AH-Samsung-Cell-Tiger-Shark-Frame-Case-Battery-5A-charger/233282726145?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (it says 48v but when i measure it, it outputs 54v)
Controller

Controller: lsw1207 https://www.omgextras.com/daymak-controller-48V-22A-p/600-20001-230-20-00.htm

Display: king-meter sw-lcd https://www.aliexpress.com/item/501974530.html

My first thought, as the bike worked flawlessly before, was that the battery was faulty. But i've measured the output and it, as far as i can tell, works fine. I've measured the cable on several spots, even on the inside of the controller and i get full power (54v) all the way. Ive also tried disconnecting and connecting cables to the engine and the display no to effect. Really desperate for guidance on what to check on next and how. I just wanna get the bike working again and dont mind buying new parts, but i need to know what part is malfunctioning.

Really grateful for any tips or guidance!

EDIT: So bicycle battery was stolen, ripped out of its plastic holder that broke. Rest of bike seemingly unharmed. Bought new battery, that gives out power that reaches the controller. But no power in motor or display, when trying to start the bike it doesnt respond (no sound, lights, nothing).
more info and pictures here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=107830&p=1578354#p1578354
 
Is your new battery pack the same voltage as the old one? Is the battery the only thing you replaced since it was working?
 
Old one was 48v never measured the exact output. this is one is specified as 48v but the measured output is 54v (or maybe 52? can check again tomorrow). The battery is the only part that i've changed.

I thought maybe the controller couldnt handle the voltage due to it is specified as a 48v controller, but from what i've read it should atleast start, with a slight risk for overheating and malfunctioning, is this correct or can it be that the controller can't handle the voltage and how do i know for sure that is the case?
 
"48 volt" batteries put out about 54 volts when fully charged - the way that batteries are rated, by their voltage when near dead, makes little sense. Unless the old pack was actually 36 volts, putting out something like 42 volts when charged, it shouldn't be the pack voltage.
 
meisel said:
Old one was 48v never measured the exact output. this is one is specified as 48v but the measured output is 54v (or maybe 52? can check again tomorrow). The battery is the only part that i've changed.

Maybe start with providing some description of the symptoms, beyond is won't "start". Start from the beginning. You press the power on button and....example: the display lights up or no response from the display. If it lights up, then you twist the throttle and...nothing, or, the motor jerks a little and doesn't spin, or something smells funny, etc. Any descriptions would allow people to help you trouble shoot. Right now, only you know the symptoms, so the possibilities are infinite.

You may also want to describe what happened when your battery was stolen (example, they ripped it out and damaged the carrier; they tried to steal the display too, etc.) in case there was other potential damage.
 
E-HP said:
meisel said:
Old one was 48v never measured the exact output. this is one is specified as 48v but the measured output is 54v (or maybe 52? can check again tomorrow). The battery is the only part that i've changed.

Maybe start with providing some description of the symptoms, beyond is won't "start". Start from the beginning. You press the power on button and....example: the display lights up or no response from the display. If it lights up, then you twist the throttle and...nothing, or, the motor jerks a little and doesn't spin, or something smells funny, etc. Any descriptions would allow people to help you trouble shoot. Right now, only you know the symptoms, so the possibilities are infinite.

You may also want to describe what happened when your battery was stolen (example, they ripped it out and damaged the carrier; they tried to steal the display too, etc.) in case there was other potential damage.

I press the start button on the display and nothing happens. Have tried pedaling and no assistance is available. Battery starts and lights up, and have measured volt to the point in the controller where the cables are attached. So the only thing im decently sure is working is the battery and it is the only new part.
 
LeftieBiker said:
"48 volt" batteries put out about 54 volts when fully charged - the way that batteries are rated, by their voltage when near dead, makes little sense. Unless the old pack was actually 36 volts, putting out something like 42 volts when charged, it shouldn't be the pack voltage.

Ahh i see! Figured it would be correct, didnt see any purpose for them to lie about the voltage :)
 
I assume that you have looked for a blown fuse or tripped breaker in or near the controller?
 
LeftieBiker said:
I assume that you have looked for a blown fuse or tripped breaker in or near the controller?

Thank you!
I'm actually a real noob regarding electricity so no. Should it look burnt if its blown?
 
TommyCat said:
Is the polarity correct?
Do the LEDs on the throttle light up?
Which display do you have?



Regards,
T.C.

I got battery red cable to controller red cable and black to black. I was told that it might damage the controller and battery if you plug it in the wrong way so haven't dared to switch. Is this a possibility that the controller and battery use different color schemes?

display is king-meter sw-lcd.

Dont think i have any LEDs by the throttle, never seen any.
 
meisel said:
LeftieBiker said:
I assume that you have looked for a blown fuse or tripped breaker in or near the controller?

Thank you!
I'm actually a real noob regarding electricity so no. Should it look burnt if its blown?

A blown fuse will usually either look burned or there will be an obvious gap in the metal strip. Sometimes, though, they blow in 'stealth mode' and you have to test them.
 
meisel said:
I was told that it might damage the controller and battery if you plug it in the wrong way... Is this a possibility that the controller and battery use different color schemes?

This is why it's a good reason to double check... anything is possible. :shock:
Checking the battery, with your meter's RED lead on the RED battery wire, and it's BLACK lead on the battery's BLACK lead... your meter's display should not show [-] or negative DC voltage.
Checking at the controller's PCB, RED to VB+ (or similar), and BLACK to VB- or ground (or similar).


meisel said:
Dont think i have any LEDs by the throttle, never seen any.

Just going by your kit link... :(


4221445829850198.jpg



meisel said:
display is king-meter sw-lcd.

After battery polarity is verified, with the display disconnected, check to see if you have full battery power on the RED display wire connection (voltage to the display) to the BLACK wire (ground). And double check that a good display connection is made when plugged back together.

Check the voltage at the controller battery input terminals, and see if it drops significantly when the display's power on button is pushed and held.
 
Let's start with a wild guess that there are TWO, and only TWO, wires that connected the old battery to the controller.

If there are any additional connections, YOU will have to supply that information.

Now, for wild guess #2, let's assume that the crackheads which stole your original battery, were clumsy, in a rush, and had no need to be careful or gentle when they removed the battery.

If there is any evidence of this, YOU will have to check carefully for it.

The bike worked with the original battery, the new battery has good voltage, yet there is absolutely no sign of power whatsoever.

If there is any sign of power on the original system components, meaning excluding the new battery, YOU will have to provide this. By any sign of power, ANY lights, flashes, beeps, ANYTHING at all outside of the lights on the new battery itself.

Probability is that the connector itself was damaged, the wire to the controller was damaged, or the internal connection inside the controller was damaged. Continuity test from internal solder pad to external connector. RE-reading that you may have done this but it is unclear.

Almost forgot wild guess #3 - Did the connectors on the new battery just happen to match the original connectors on the controller, or is there an adapter or new connectors recently installed?
 
This manual shows display wiring to battery voltage - 24V / 36V ( for state of charge bar graph ? ) Also shows a CR2032 button battery. I would check that, and all the pins on the connector to the controller . https://www.manualslib.com/manual/939171/King-Meter-Sw-Lcd.html?page=18#manual
 
LeftieBiker said:
A blown fuse will usually either look burned or there will be an obvious gap in the metal strip. Sometimes, though, they blow in 'stealth mode' and you have to test them.

Thanks i will take a look!
 
TommyCat said:
meisel said:
I was told that it might damage the controller and battery if you plug it in the wrong way... Is this a possibility that the controller and battery use different color schemes?

This is why it's a good reason to double check... anything is possible. :shock:
Checking the battery, with your meter's RED lead on the RED battery wire, and it's BLACK lead on the battery's BLACK lead... your meter's display should not show [-] or negative DC voltage.
Checking at the controller's PCB, RED to VB+ (or similar), and BLACK to VB- or ground (or similar).


meisel said:
Dont think i have any LEDs by the throttle, never seen any.

Just going by your kit link... :(


4221445829850198.jpg



meisel said:
display is king-meter sw-lcd.

After battery polarity is verified, with the display disconnected, check to see if you have full battery power on the RED display wire connection (voltage to the display) to the BLACK wire (ground). And double check that a good display connection is made when plugged back together.

Check the voltage at the controller battery input terminals, and see if it drops significantly when the display's power on button is pushed and held.

My fault, i dont have the full kit just the part that is referred to before the link. Dont know exactly what throttle i have but if it makes a difference i could find out!

Thanks alot for the instructions, i will try them out one by one and come back with the results!

Edit: red battery cable to black cable gives 54v positive charge. On the PCB where should i measure, the place where the red and black cable are attached or somewhere else?
 
E-HP said:
They may have tampered with your display and buttons trying to steal the bike, then settled for the battery.

Very much possible, the bike was in a crowded place and everything but the battery (that was forcefully ripped out) atleast looked untouched. Hopefully i can find out whats wrong and exchange the parts thats broken!
 
aroundqube said:
This manual shows display wiring to battery voltage - 24V / 36V ( for state of charge bar graph ? ) Also shows a CR2032 button battery. I would check that, and all the pins on the connector to the controller . https://www.manualslib.com/manual/939171/King-Meter-Sw-Lcd.html?page=18#manual

Thanks for helping this noob! :) Does the first sentence mean that its made for a 24 or 36v battery? And does it mean it might show the wrong power left in the display? The display is pretty new, like 1-2 month old but it doesnt show the correct power left, havent reallt cared that much about it though as ive had a good grasp on the range either way.

Ive looked at the connectors and they look fine, should i possibly clean them anyway? Have som isopropylalcohol (cleaning alcohol, not sure about english name) would that works to clean it with? Anything else i should be careful.

Regarding the battery do u mean that it can be out of internal power in some way and that the battery needs changing?
 
AngryBob said:
Let's start with a wild guess that there are TWO, and only TWO, wires that connected the old battery to the controller.

If there are any additional connections, YOU will have to supply that information.

Now, for wild guess #2, let's assume that the crackheads which stole your original battery, were clumsy, in a rush, and had no need to be careful or gentle when they removed the battery.

If there is any evidence of this, YOU will have to check carefully for it.

The bike worked with the original battery, the new battery has good voltage, yet there is absolutely no sign of power whatsoever.

If there is any sign of power on the original system components, meaning excluding the new battery, YOU will have to provide this. By any sign of power, ANY lights, flashes, beeps, ANYTHING at all outside of the lights on the new battery itself.

Probability is that the connector itself was damaged, the wire to the controller was damaged, or the internal connection inside the controller was damaged. Continuity test from internal solder pad to external connector. RE-reading that you may have done this but it is unclear.

Almost forgot wild guess #3 - Did the connectors on the new battery just happen to match the original connectors on the controller, or is there an adapter or new connectors recently installed?

Sorry for being unclear and thank you for your help!

1,The battery and controller are connected with two wires (both the old one and new one) red and black cables. I've measured power on the cable on the inside of the controller, meaning the power atleast makes it way there. Havent measured anything on the controller due to not knowing what and where i should measure. From the controller it goes cables to the display and the motor. From the controller there goes a lot of cables to the motor and the display, ill take some pictures to hopefully give you guys a clearer picture.

2, they where definietly clumsy. It was ripped straight out, broke the battery holder but everything else looks intact. It was standing in a decently crowded place and my guess is that they simple ran and ripped the battery out. No signs of any other attempts to steal the bike.

3, The connectors did not match, but as the cable where the same is simply cut the new cable and soldered the old one to it. Voltage through the cable is good so it seems to be working. When you say internal solder pad is that the place where the power cable is soldered to the controller chip? an external connector, what exactly would that be?

Overall the bike does no sound, doesnt start, no lights, no pedal assistance, nothing. The battery is the only thing that lights up and starts and gives out voltage, that i know atleast reaches the controller.

Thanks again!
 
If you have opened the controller, and checked the voltage on the point where the wires connect to the board, that takes the new, external connectors on the power cables out of the equation. However, you should carefully nudge and move the cables while doing this, they have likely been stressed when yanked on and there could be a crack in the solder making the connection, but unlikely.

As was suggested, check the power on the red and black cables to the display. Voltage should be present on the outputs from the controller.

Is possible that when the original battery cables disengaged, one connector could have been fully unplugged and the other still partially connected but with un-insulated metal exposed such that a short could have occurred ? Were the connectors still intact from the controller, any damage, any pieces of battery side connectors lying on the ground, etc?

It is possible, though unlikely, that the controller and/or display has a hard limit of 12S, or 50.4V, and cannot function with 13S, or 54.6 volt. inside the controller there should be capacitors with a voltage number on them, if they say 50V or 53V this could be the problem.

S-numbers are cells in series which times 4.2V gives maximum voltage when fully charged, 12S is usually called 48V and 13S specifically labeled as 52V, but not always and chinese quality control is pretty much non-existent, as is their adherence to accepted standards.

Is there any evidence at all of damage to the display or its connections, is there any other off switch other than the display, and have you removed and reconnected the display connectors?
 
meisel said:
My fault, i dont have the full kit just the part that is referred to before the link. Dont know exactly what throttle i have but if it makes a difference i could find out!


Top priority right now is to find out why the display won't turn on. (the throttle may come later if needed) But any and all accurate information is always welcomed and appreciated.



meisel said:
Edit: red battery cable to black cable gives 54v positive charge. On the PCB where should i measure, the place where the red and black cable are attached or somewhere else?

As you've verified the correct battery polarity/wire colors, and if the controller's battery power wiring is connected to the same colors as they where before, all should be well.

Continue on with the recommendations...



TommyCat said:
After battery polarity is verified, with the display disconnected, check to see if you have full battery power on the RED display wire connection (voltage to the display) to the BLACK wire (ground). And double check that a good display connection is made when plugged back together.

Check the voltage at the controller battery input terminals, and see if it drops significantly when the display's power on button is pushed and held.



meisel said:
i will try them out one by one and come back with the results!

:thumb:
 
Displays that I've seen are pretty simple. If they get battery power on the power/ground leads they can be turned on. If your display uses a flat 5pin JST plug, you can disconnect it and probe the connector pins from the controller.

There's almost always a black wire and that's ground. Probe the other four wires. One will be at battery voltage. If no black wire, put the negative of your meter on the battery minus terminal. You can still probe the connector pins with the positive of your meter,

If you don't find any voltage, then you know battery power is going into the controller input and not coming out.
 
Display:
IMG-20200820-105005.jpg
IMG-20200820-105914.jpg

I see people suggesting i should measure the power to the display, can i get some guidance on how to measure it? Should i measure from the connector to ground or should i make a cut in the cable and find the red cable inside? Or maybe somehow measure it somewhere near the controller?

Controller:
IMG-20200820-105055.jpg

As you can see ive made a small cut on the cable to measure power close to the place where its soldered to the controller, figured i'd cover it with electrical tape later. Full power measured at this point. By the way anyone got any guidance on how to get the pcb out of the metal box? I've removed all screws but it still stuck in there, im afraid to brake anything if i apply to much pressure as it isnt when i apply a decent amount of force.

IMG-20200820-105135.jpg

Cables to and from the controller. red black is where i connect the battery. left bunch is going to the display (and maybe throttle?) right bunch going to the motor. Can i make any measurements here and what cables are of interest in that case?

Battery:
IMG-20200820-105218.jpg

Starting and working. not fully loaded but outputs 54v.

I'm really gratefull for all the help you guys are sending my way. I have close to no experience working with these kind of stuff but am very interested to learn so this is a great opportunity for me to get more knowledable! Thanks again!
 
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