How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

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speedy1984   10 W

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by speedy1984 » Nov 18 2020 3:44pm

Both of these motors windings are not very good choices for off road at all!They will overheat doing any sort of real off road,also lack torque if you ask me.The 5t is a great choice for both on and off but again will still overheat at them sort of phase amps for sure.This speed or torque is really down to what you as the rider thinks if it is enough or not tbh.I wanted more torque almost 250 4stroke ball park so after burning out a 5t riding offroad ive bought 6t.Some people will say they have 5000miles on a winding and never skipped a beat BUT they may ride like miss daisy :roll: Its a cheap motor not designed to run what most of us ask of it :wink:

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by John in CR » Nov 18 2020 10:00pm

"How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?"

Reduce the wheel size.

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by John in CR » Nov 18 2020 10:07pm

speedy1984 wrote:
Nov 18 2020 3:44pm
Both of these motors windings are not very good choices for off road at all!They will overheat doing any sort of real off road,also lack torque if you ask me.The 5t is a great choice for both on and off but again will still overheat at them sort of phase amps for sure.This speed or torque is really down to what you as the rider thinks if it is enough or not tbh.I wanted more torque almost 250 4stroke ball park so after burning out a 5t riding offroad ive bought 6t.Some people will say they have 5000miles on a winding and never skipped a beat BUT they may ride like miss daisy :roll: Its a cheap motor not designed to run what most of us ask of it :wink:
Windings don't make a hill of beans difference except to the extent that one has a greater total amount of copper than the others, in which case that one is the best regardless of usage. Number of turns in the windings just changes the voltage and current required to get identical results. Efficiency, torque and power are identical.

Unless you're able to tune your suspension like MadRhino as well as accept the extreme compromise of a 14.5kg motor in the wheel, then a hubmotor isn't the right choice for off road riding.

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serious_sam   10 kW

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by serious_sam » Nov 19 2020 6:51am

John in CR wrote:
Nov 18 2020 10:00pm
"How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?"
Reduce the wheel size.
Yeah, unfortunately, this.

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by John in CR » Nov 19 2020 1:02pm

serious_sam wrote:
Nov 19 2020 6:51am
John in CR wrote:
Nov 18 2020 10:00pm
"How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?"
Reduce the wheel size.
Yeah, unfortunately, this.
A smaller wheel is far less a compromise than is the unsprung weight of any DD hubbie. Simply use a longer shock to get the same geometry and all of the performance gains are well worth a little extra action on that shock. Greater acceleration, better efficiency at all speeds, more thrust for your given torque, better cooling, and because the gearing is lower you can increase the amount of power input for more power out.

The 2 real reasons people are so against using smaller wheels on hubmotors are:
1. Laziness- because they don't want to put in the extra work or mods to make the bike function the same (pedal clearance, geometry, etc).
2. The bike looks different from pedal bikes and heaven forbid your ebike doesn't look like a standard pedal bike. These same objectors would think it'd be cool to have a penny farthing to ride occasionally.

DD hubmotors function so much better in all categories in smaller wheels instead of common 26" wheels, much less 29ers, that a small wheel on the rear should be the norm, not the exception.

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by john61ct » Nov 19 2020 2:57pm

The other reason is off-road use without suspension, using fat tires instead for (some) comfort.

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by serious_sam » Nov 19 2020 4:29pm

John in CR wrote:
Nov 19 2020 1:02pm
The 2 real reasons people are so against using smaller wheels on hubmotors are:
If all you do is drag race single cylinder gassers at the traffic lights to make yourself feel cool, then sure, a 6" wheel is fine. Fill your boots.

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by speedy1984 » Nov 19 2020 6:40pm

Unless you're able to tune your suspension like MadRhino as well as accept the extreme compromise of a 14.5kg motor in the wheel, then a hubmotor isn't the right choice for off road riding.
[/quote]

Mine rides fine for my needs with some suspension setup but again it may not for others.The idea of my builds are purely to ride more and compromise on a machine for me is what was needed hence the super silent hub choice.Riding from my house then around cool spots then home without pissing anyone off is way better than riding my mx bike on only weekends.Still the 3.5turn qs motor even on a 17" wheel setup on 20s is not a good choice for my riding(been there done that)lacks torque and quick to get hot.The amount of amps dc and pa would be out of my controllers safe zone to match the 5t at 200dc 450ph.Again it may not for you but in my group of friends its what we found.Choose a motor and if you dont like it sell it on and try another "what works for you works for you" :wink:
https://youtu.be/PSk5tOzzjnI
https://youtu.be/jkwtdZFcloE
Last edited by speedy1984 on Nov 19 2020 6:54pm, edited 2 times in total.

speedy1984   10 W

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by speedy1984 » Nov 19 2020 6:43pm

If all you do is drag race single cylinder gassers at the traffic lights to make yourself feel cool, then sure, a 6" wheel is fine. Fill your boots.

Not sure i feel cool :lol: but nice to compare a build against big car companies efforts at building a sports machine
https://youtu.be/IDrW0xBFd3M

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by John in CR » Nov 19 2020 8:16pm

serious_sam wrote:
Nov 19 2020 4:29pm
John in CR wrote:
Nov 19 2020 1:02pm
The 2 real reasons people are so against using smaller wheels on hubmotors are:
If all you do is drag race single cylinder gassers at the traffic lights to make yourself feel cool, then sure, a 6" wheel is fine. Fill your boots.
A 6" wheel isn't necessary unless you're pulling some super heavy load. The OP wants to use it off road and already melted one QS205, erroneously blaming it on the winding instead of the gearing though I'm sure his controller settings play a big role.

Regarding cool, I was cool long before it was fashionable, and once it was then that's reason enough for me not to be. Like Speedy1984 I love electric acceleration and strongly believe that it's desirable to demonstrate the potential of electrics as long as you ride responsibly and with courtesy.

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by speedy1984 » Nov 20 2020 9:48am

I agree it is mostly down to bad tuning 99% of the time or treating a certain kv motor like another and pushing them past there limits.I burnt my 5t out testing 550pa just pushing for more torque.Yes i was ready and aware that what i was doing could go wrong but when max isnt enough you just gotta keep on pushing :) Also when we talk about offroad riding wheel choice must come into play!A 17" mx rim with an mx tyre does not ride that good all be it with lots of grip but rolling over objects it doesnt do well.18" mx rim with a shinko 241 rides great with lots of hub protection as the side wall is so big being its a trial bike tyre and meant to be ran at very low psi BUT lacks grip in sloppy conditions if aggressive.I do like that its the least trail damaging pattern being like a rocket ron style tread pattern.Its also damn nearly the same size as a 19" mx bike front tyre as this is a lot smaller in side wall thickness.This brings me to my personal choice of the 6t motor at 92v on a 19" aggressive mx tyre pattern setup.At these volts/kv and wheel size still being able to pass 40mph (without fw)with tonnes of torque and all at lower amp settings for me is a no brainer.This will mean of course longer run times, less stressed cells ect and again for my needs fingers crossed should be the missing piece of the puzzle.

This is running my 24" mtb front wheel setup and a 18" shinko 241,hopefully gives you an idea of grip available :thumb:
https://youtu.be/2KWXQ25MYUg

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by litespeed » Dec 03 2020 9:45pm

I have the 3.5T V3, Nuc 24F and 20s15p 30Q pack and it’s a hoot! 17” rim and 3.00 Shinko 241 tire on a properly suspension tuned bike.

I’ve only put a few hundred miles on it at 250 BA and 400 PA and it’s pretty amazing. Picture with the older but amazing for the time controller. 😬

Tom
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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by john61ct » Dec 04 2020 1:29am

I wonder if that design could work as front end of an off road cargo hauler

pulling a big trailer with a well articulated hitch point just behind the seatpost?

Can't visualise a rear rack setup at all carrying heavy loads

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by xenodius » Dec 05 2020 1:06pm

Good discussion already but I'll report anyway that I'm super happy with my QS205 4T in a "20 inch" moped rim (Tire OD = 24.15 inches) + ferrofluid + HubSinks + 10mm² phasewires + BAC 8000 (300A battery, 450 phase). I hit 65mph with 50% field weakening with a bit of power to spare. Without field weakening it pulls up to ~40mph very fast. Only after riding at ~60mph for almost 10 miles did thermal foldback kick in, and even then I just dropped from ~24kW peak to about 12kW peak and it held steady. I could run higher phase amps but it's thrilling enough already :lol:

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by mbgjt1 » Dec 16 2020 6:22pm

xenodius wrote:
Dec 05 2020 1:06pm
Good discussion already but I'll report anyway that I'm super happy with my QS205 4T in a "20 inch" moped rim (Tire OD = 24.15 inches) + ferrofluid + HubSinks + 10mm² phasewires + BAC 8000 (300A battery, 450 phase). I hit 65mph with 50% field weakening with a bit of power to spare. Without field weakening it pulls up to ~40mph very fast. Only after riding at ~60mph for almost 10 miles did thermal foldback kick in, and even then I just dropped from ~24kW peak to about 12kW peak and it held steady. I could run higher phase amps but it's thrilling enough already :lol:
Hello all,
I am on the same boat here…
I’ve got the Nuc 24F controller on order, but I am still deciding on the motor winding and wheel size.
• Battery (21s12p VTC6 battery pack rated for 88.2V max), maximum voltage of the 24F controller is 90V
• Wheel would be 20” O.D., should be a good balance between low end torque and speed
• QS205 50H V3 (3T? 4?, I’m not sure)
Using the Grin Motor Simulator, it shows that the 3T motor has much higher torque and therefore higher acceleration after the 25 kph mark. Notice how the blue curve of the 3T extends over the blue curve of the 4T. So at 280 bA and 480 pA, the 3T should be the clear choice, no?
Please help me understand if I am missing anything. What’s the point in choosing a 4T or a 5T of it will produce less torque at these settings?
Attachments
3T vs. 4T.jpg
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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by mbgjt1 » Dec 16 2020 6:23pm

Darren2018 wrote:
Nov 15 2020 9:45am
I am wondering how to get the most power out of this setup:

QS205 50H (kV not decided)
Nucular 24F at 300bA/500pA
25" total wheel size
10-50mph


I know the basic theory is to condense the motors available power into a useful rpm range but as we all know this is not as easy as it sounds when the motor is mounted within the wheel itself as the most significant tuning variables are now void. To pick the motor that maximises the bA and pA limits is not too difficult but I would like to choose a motor that has a wide and useful power band. Would a 3.5T plus field weakening be best? Spinningmagents mentioned this combination and it makes sense. Is anyone running 500pA on a QS205 3.5T with field weakening?

5T vs 3.5T. Notice how much extra power is available from 15mph onwards
Screen Shot 2020-11-15 at 12.58.45 pm.png


Even when the battery is at 50% the 3.5T still has loads more useful power
Screen Shot 2020-11-15 at 13.02.26 pm.png

I think the 4T with field weakening might be the best option if the Nucular controller is ever able to be run on 24S as you will not be capped on pA like you are on the 3.5T and the extra speed that the 3.5T is capable of requires a lot of power to sustain it anyway. I don't think the top speed is an issue for either motor especially once field weakening is applied so at this point getting more lower end torque would probably be better. I am aware that heat will become a problem but primarily my bike will be used like a regular 350W ebike so I am not too worried plus Hubsinks and Statoraid will enable the motor to cool much faster.

4T 24S vs 3.5T 22S
Screen Shot 2020-11-15 at 13.42.20 pm.png

Who else is running any of these combinations? Anyone know of any high powered mid drive frames that keep the pedals and regular bike seat?
Hello all,
I am on the same boat here…
I’ve got the Nuc 24F controller on order, but I am still deciding on the motor winding and wheel size.
• Battery (21s12p VTC6 battery pack rated for 88.2V max), maximum voltage of the 24F controller is 90V
• Wheel would be 20” O.D., should be a good balance between low end torque and speed
• QS205 50H V3 (3T? 4?, I’m not sure)
Using the Grin Motor Simulator, it shows that the 3T motor has much higher torque and therefore higher acceleration after the 25 kph mark. Notice how the blue curve of the 3T extends over the blue curve of the 4T. So at 280 bA and 480 pA, the 3T should be the clear choice, no?
Please help me understand if I am missing anything. What’s the point in choosing a 4T or a 5T of it will produce less torque at these settings?
Attachments
3T vs. 4T.jpg
3T vs. 4T.jpg (285.22 KiB) Viewed 541 times

Darren2018   100 W

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by Darren2018 » Dec 16 2020 6:41pm

mbgjt1 wrote:
Dec 16 2020 6:23pm
Darren2018 wrote:
Nov 15 2020 9:45am
I am wondering how to get the most power out of this setup:

QS205 50H (kV not decided)
Nucular 24F at 300bA/500pA
25" total wheel size
10-50mph


I know the basic theory is to condense the motors available power into a useful rpm range but as we all know this is not as easy as it sounds when the motor is mounted within the wheel itself as the most significant tuning variables are now void. To pick the motor that maximises the bA and pA limits is not too difficult but I would like to choose a motor that has a wide and useful power band. Would a 3.5T plus field weakening be best? Spinningmagents mentioned this combination and it makes sense. Is anyone running 500pA on a QS205 3.5T with field weakening?

5T vs 3.5T. Notice how much extra power is available from 15mph onwards
Screen Shot 2020-11-15 at 12.58.45 pm.png


Even when the battery is at 50% the 3.5T still has loads more useful power
Screen Shot 2020-11-15 at 13.02.26 pm.png

I think the 4T with field weakening might be the best option if the Nucular controller is ever able to be run on 24S as you will not be capped on pA like you are on the 3.5T and the extra speed that the 3.5T is capable of requires a lot of power to sustain it anyway. I don't think the top speed is an issue for either motor especially once field weakening is applied so at this point getting more lower end torque would probably be better. I am aware that heat will become a problem but primarily my bike will be used like a regular 350W ebike so I am not too worried plus Hubsinks and Statoraid will enable the motor to cool much faster.

4T 24S vs 3.5T 22S
Screen Shot 2020-11-15 at 13.42.20 pm.png

Who else is running any of these combinations? Anyone know of any high powered mid drive frames that keep the pedals and regular bike seat?
Hello all,
I am on the same boat here…
I’ve got the Nuc 24F controller on order, but I am still deciding on the motor winding and wheel size.
• Battery (21s12p VTC6 battery pack rated for 88.2V max), maximum voltage of the 24F controller is 90V
• Wheel would be 20” O.D., should be a good balance between low end torque and speed
• QS205 50H V3 (3T? 4?, I’m not sure)
Using the Grin Motor Simulator, it shows that the 3T motor has much higher torque and therefore higher acceleration after the 25 kph mark. Notice how the blue curve of the 3T extends over the blue curve of the 4T. So at 280 bA and 480 pA, the 3T should be the clear choice, no?
Please help me understand if I am missing anything. What’s the point in choosing a 4T or a 5T of it will produce less torque at these settings?
I came to the conclusion that years ago 150-200A controllers were popular which made the best choice a 5T winding. I think with a 90V 300bA 500pA controller the best choice would now be either 4T, 3.5T or 3T.

mbgjt1   10 W

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by mbgjt1 » Dec 20 2020 10:41pm

Darren2018 wrote:
Dec 16 2020 6:41pm
mbgjt1 wrote:
Dec 16 2020 6:23pm
Darren2018 wrote:
Nov 15 2020 9:45am
I am wondering how to get the most power out of this setup:

QS205 50H (kV not decided)
Nucular 24F at 300bA/500pA
25" total wheel size
10-50mph


I know the basic theory is to condense the motors available power into a useful rpm range but as we all know this is not as easy as it sounds when the motor is mounted within the wheel itself as the most significant tuning variables are now void. To pick the motor that maximises the bA and pA limits is not too difficult but I would like to choose a motor that has a wide and useful power band. Would a 3.5T plus field weakening be best? Spinningmagents mentioned this combination and it makes sense. Is anyone running 500pA on a QS205 3.5T with field weakening?

5T vs 3.5T. Notice how much extra power is available from 15mph onwards
Screen Shot 2020-11-15 at 12.58.45 pm.png


Even when the battery is at 50% the 3.5T still has loads more useful power
Screen Shot 2020-11-15 at 13.02.26 pm.png

I think the 4T with field weakening might be the best option if the Nucular controller is ever able to be run on 24S as you will not be capped on pA like you are on the 3.5T and the extra speed that the 3.5T is capable of requires a lot of power to sustain it anyway. I don't think the top speed is an issue for either motor especially once field weakening is applied so at this point getting more lower end torque would probably be better. I am aware that heat will become a problem but primarily my bike will be used like a regular 350W ebike so I am not too worried plus Hubsinks and Statoraid will enable the motor to cool much faster.

4T 24S vs 3.5T 22S
Screen Shot 2020-11-15 at 13.42.20 pm.png

Who else is running any of these combinations? Anyone know of any high powered mid drive frames that keep the pedals and regular bike seat?
Hello all,
I am on the same boat here…
I’ve got the Nuc 24F controller on order, but I am still deciding on the motor winding and wheel size.
• Battery (21s12p VTC6 battery pack rated for 88.2V max), maximum voltage of the 24F controller is 90V
• Wheel would be 20” O.D., should be a good balance between low end torque and speed
• QS205 50H V3 (3T? 4?, I’m not sure)
Using the Grin Motor Simulator, it shows that the 3T motor has much higher torque and therefore higher acceleration after the 25 kph mark. Notice how the blue curve of the 3T extends over the blue curve of the 4T. So at 280 bA and 480 pA, the 3T should be the clear choice, no?
Please help me understand if I am missing anything. What’s the point in choosing a 4T or a 5T of it will produce less torque at these settings?
I came to the conclusion that years ago 150-200A controllers were popular which made the best choice a 5T winding. I think with a 90V 300bA 500pA controller the best choice would now be either 4T, 3.5T or 3T.
Hi Darren,

What have you decided regarding the 3.5T vs. 3T?

It seems that the 3T motor is able to handle the most amps, and would have the highest acceleration between 50 to 80 kph (30 to 50 mph). Why not simply go for a 3T winding since you are pushing 300 bA 500 pA into this motor? coupled to a 20" wheel for higher torque?

It seems to be the best overall compromise between torque and speed... although you may have to push more amps through to achieve the same low end torque compared to a higher turn motor.

Thoughts?

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by Darren2018 » Dec 20 2020 11:38pm

The battery compartment on my frame is best suited for 22S14P and the Nucular is only warranted to 90V so I went with the 3.5T. If I was able to use 24S at 4.2V I would have chosen a 4T but at 90V 300bA 500pA you can max out the 3.5T and have lots of mid range power especially once you factor in field weakening. 3T was a bit too much for what I wanted and the potential benefit would more or less get eaten up by the higher speed losses plus I don't really want to travel at 70mph on a push bike as it's very obviously illegal and never really necessary.

If you want max power I believe 80kW with a modified 205 in a mid drive setup has been achieved.

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by mbgjt1 » Dec 21 2020 3:46am

Darren2018 wrote:
Dec 20 2020 11:38pm
The battery compartment on my frame is best suited for 22S14P and the Nucular is only warranted to 90V so I went with the 3.5T. If I was able to use 24S at 4.2V I would have chosen a 4T but at 90V 300bA 500pA you can max out the 3.5T and have lots of mid range power especially once you factor in field weakening. 3T was a bit too much for what I wanted and the potential benefit would more or less get eaten up by the higher speed losses plus I don't really want to travel at 70mph on a push bike as it's very obviously illegal and never really necessary.

If you want max power I believe 80kW with a modified 205 in a mid drive setup has been achieved.
Hi Darren,

I'm in exactly the same boat here, but running a 21s battery because I am worried that 22s will destroy the nuclear 24F controller (max rating at 90V).

Anyway, looking at the simulator, it you can see that after 17 mph, the 3T winding (15.6kV) has slightly more torque and acceleration than the 4.5T (14.41kV). I think they will both give around 55 mph of acceleration without FW which is plenty!

Granted, the 3T will take slightly more current to output the higher torque and acceleration but I guess you've got enough to spare with 300ba 500pa.

keep in mind I am running 20" tires, which is a great way to increase acceleration (low end torque)
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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by Darren2018 » Dec 21 2020 12:24pm

mbgjt1 wrote:
Dec 21 2020 3:46am
Darren2018 wrote:
Dec 20 2020 11:38pm
The battery compartment on my frame is best suited for 22S14P and the Nucular is only warranted to 90V so I went with the 3.5T. If I was able to use 24S at 4.2V I would have chosen a 4T but at 90V 300bA 500pA you can max out the 3.5T and have lots of mid range power especially once you factor in field weakening. 3T was a bit too much for what I wanted and the potential benefit would more or less get eaten up by the higher speed losses plus I don't really want to travel at 70mph on a push bike as it's very obviously illegal and never really necessary.

If you want max power I believe 80kW with a modified 205 in a mid drive setup has been achieved.
Hi Darren,

I'm in exactly the same boat here, but running a 21s battery because I am worried that 22s will destroy the nuclear 24F controller (max rating at 90V).

Anyway, looking at the simulator, it you can see that after 17 mph, the 3T winding (15.6kV) has slightly more torque and acceleration than the 4.5T (14.41kV). I think they will both give around 55 mph of acceleration without FW which is plenty!

Granted, the 3T will take slightly more current to output the higher torque and acceleration but I guess you've got enough to spare with 300ba 500pa.

keep in mind I am running 20" tires, which is a great way to increase acceleration (low end torque)
I decided to use 22S as this was a common setup amongst other Nucular users and when I spoke to Nucular they said 90V is what they warranted and recommended with 95V being the absolute max.

I think 3T would be too much for me. If I had a mid drive frame with a 205 then 3T would be fantastic but DD with a 25" OD wheel would make the top speed a bit too much when you factor in the field weakening and which part of the rpm range you are actually trying to increase. The losses increase greatly as you go faster and each individual inefficiency will add to the next.

If you are running 20" OD wheels then 3T would be awesome.

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Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by Yermommy » Dec 22 2020 12:10am

Wingdings are a very touchy topic. In my experience, it really depends on how you ride. People want to have the ability to launch hard from a stop, but most of the time nobody is doing this consistently (unless you're racing or riding extremely technical trails). The majority of people are more impressed with mid-range power; sprinting from 15mph to 50mph in 3 seconds is what really makes you feel the power.

Although a 5T would allow you to launch harder, a 3T in a very small wheel, like 16-17in, is your best option. It can give better wh/mi when cruising (this is very dependent on how you define "cruising") and has more top end because of what I call the "gearing effect." If you want to reach 50mph, you can do it with either 3T or 5T, but they will get you there at different rates. The 5T will send you up to 30mph very quickly, then taper off and slowly get you to 50mph. If you get a 3T, you will launch slower but increase up to 50mph at a much faster rate than the 5T and eventually overtake it.

I really misunderstood this when I made my second bike. I used a 5T mxus because I didn't plan to go past 50mph but I also didn't realize that it meant acceleration from 40mph - 50mph would be turtle slow.

The final difference between windings is the amount of copper put into each motor. 3T has the most copper mass because of the thickness used for the winding. QS uses an impure blend of copper with some filler additives. It works, but it's not as pure as it could be. Pure copper is very bright and shiny; if you've ever opened a hub motor and looked at the winding, you'll notice that they're usually very dull unless it has been rewound by a professional with access to top-grade copper.

Darren2018   100 W

100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Aug 18 2018 7:10am

Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by Darren2018 » Dec 23 2020 12:36pm

Yermommy wrote:
Dec 22 2020 12:10am
Wingdings are a very touchy topic. In my experience, it really depends on how you ride. People want to have the ability to launch hard from a stop, but most of the time nobody is doing this consistently (unless you're racing or riding extremely technical trails). The majority of people are more impressed with mid-range power; sprinting from 15mph to 50mph in 3 seconds is what really makes you feel the power.

Although a 5T would allow you to launch harder, a 3T in a very small wheel, like 16-17in, is your best option. It can give better wh/mi when cruising (this is very dependent on how you define "cruising") and has more top end because of what I call the "gearing effect." If you want to reach 50mph, you can do it with either 3T or 5T, but they will get you there at different rates. The 5T will send you up to 30mph very quickly, then taper off and slowly get you to 50mph. If you get a 3T, you will launch slower but increase up to 50mph at a much faster rate than the 5T and eventually overtake it.

I really misunderstood this when I made my second bike. I used a 5T mxus because I didn't plan to go past 50mph but I also didn't realize that it meant acceleration from 40mph - 50mph would be turtle slow.

The final difference between windings is the amount of copper put into each motor. 3T has the most copper mass because of the thickness used for the winding. QS uses an impure blend of copper with some filler additives. It works, but it's not as pure as it could be. Pure copper is very bright and shiny; if you've ever opened a hub motor and looked at the winding, you'll notice that they're usually very dull unless it has been rewound by a professional with access to top-grade copper.
Is it possible to measure the resistance difference between the impure copper and the bright and shiny stuff? I wonder if they are all like this. It would be good to run a MXUS 3K 3T or similar at 24kW.

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ecross   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 343
Joined: Jun 11 2011 2:09pm
Location: München

Re: How to get the most power out of a QS205 50H?

Post by ecross » Jan 06 2021 4:36am

Darren2018 wrote:
Dec 21 2020 12:24pm
mbgjt1 wrote:
Dec 21 2020 3:46am
Darren2018 wrote:
Dec 20 2020 11:38pm
The battery compartment on my frame is best suited for 22S14P and the Nucular is only warranted to 90V so I went with the 3.5T. If I was able to use 24S at 4.2V I would have chosen a 4T but at 90V 300bA 500pA you can max out the 3.5T and have lots of mid range power especially once you factor in field weakening. 3T was a bit too much for what I wanted and the potential benefit would more or less get eaten up by the higher speed losses plus I don't really want to travel at 70mph on a push bike as it's very obviously illegal and never really necessary.

If you want max power I believe 80kW with a modified 205 in a mid drive setup has been achieved.
Hi Darren,

I'm in exactly the same boat here, but running a 21s battery because I am worried that 22s will destroy the nuclear 24F controller (max rating at 90V).

Anyway, looking at the simulator, it you can see that after 17 mph, the 3T winding (15.6kV) has slightly more torque and acceleration than the 4.5T (14.41kV). I think they will both give around 55 mph of acceleration without FW which is plenty!

Granted, the 3T will take slightly more current to output the higher torque and acceleration but I guess you've got enough to spare with 300ba 500pa.

keep in mind I am running 20" tires, which is a great way to increase acceleration (low end torque)
I decided to use 22S as this was a common setup amongst other Nucular users and when I spoke to Nucular they said 90V is what they warranted and recommended with 95V being the absolute max.

I think 3T would be too much for me. If I had a mid drive frame with a 205 then 3T would be fantastic but DD with a 25" OD wheel would make the top speed a bit too much when you factor in the field weakening and which part of the rpm range you are actually trying to increase. The losses increase greatly as you go faster and each individual inefficiency will add to the next.

If you are running 20" OD wheels then 3T would be awesome.
Hi Darren,

have test some MXUS 3T and also QS 50H 3.5T into a 16" Moped Rim and Heidenau Tyre.

With up to 95V and 24 Fet Nukular Controller. This set-up is good for great tourque and topspeed for +100 kmh.
I`m very lucky with this setup and will test in future my new Sanyo and Samsung in 22S 16P confuguration.

BR
ecross
NC 2805 mod.
H4080 mod.
4504 mod.
4503 mod. with watercooling
LiIon 24S16P from Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic
Siemens 2000W travel charger

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