85 Nm torque vs 160 Nm torque

Hello friends, I want a full suspension electric mountain bike so bad and you have all helped me with your valuable insight a really lot so far, so thanks for that. Until now I have been looking at the Bafang 1000W options, either as my own conversion or importing a bike with this motor from China, but there are many difficulties with both options. Thus I am starting to consider to actually buy a bike from mainstream manufacturers here in Europe, but my main problem is the max torque of all mainstream motors - 85 Nm, which is half of the Bafang's power. So this raises some questions. Can you share your thoughts?
1) In what situations would I realise that a mainstream eMTB is not powerful enough and wish I had bought the Bafang with double the torque?
2) Does a battery with 625Wh capacity like the powertubes from Bosch mean more range on a 250W motor, than, say, if I had bought a battery of exactly the same capacity and paired it with the Bafang1000W motor?
3) Most mainstream bikes weigh around 25 kg (55 pounds) - does this give the 250W motor at least a little extra advantage with regards to its torque efficiency compared to the Bafang 1000W motor on a DYI conversion which would weigh 5 more kilos (11 pounds)?
All in all, how efficient woudl you say is the Bosch Performance + Power Pack combo on an enduro bike compared to a DIY BBSHD 1000w that has been paired with a 1000Wh battery?
Thank you all so much in advance, you are awesome!

1) Very steep uphill sections (black skiing slope) are too much for 85nm (700W peak) motors. BBSHD handles it. I tested Bosch performace bike and was not satisfied. Much too weak power and no throttle for mud/snow.
2) If you ride both motors with only 250W both will have nealry same efficiency
3) My trance went up from 13,5 kg to 24 kg (bbshd + battery). So even a bit better than stock ones. :wink:

Roughly 110 pounds force on the pedal at 90 degrees with normal length crank arm will produce roughly 85 Nm of torque going by an old spread sheet. Roughly, the sustainable human torque output of a moderately fit fly weight (60-70Kg) cyclist.

ginekolog said:

1) Very steep uphill sections (black skiing slope) are too much for 85nm (700W peak) motors. BBSHD handles it. I tested Bosch performace bike and was not satisfied. Much too weak power and no throttle for mud/snow.
2) If you ride both motors with only 250W both will have nealry same efficiency
3) My trance went up from 13,5 kg to 24 kg (bbshd + battery). So even a bit better than stock ones. :wink:

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Thank you for your contribution, this helps a lot. I gave it some more thought and now I am looking into bying a suitable full suspension MTB to convert to an ebike with the Bafang. Is your bike similar to that one?
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gr/trance-x-29-2-2021
Will I be able to fit one of those huge batteries they ship with the BBSHD? (38 cm x 14 cm x 9cm?)

speedmd said:

Roughly 110 pounds force on the pedal at 90 degrees with normal length crank arm will produce roughly 85 Nm of torque going by an old spread sheet. Roughly, the sustainable human torque output of a moderately fit fly weight (60-70Kg) cyclist.

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Thanks, that helps understand what these measures actually mean.

zoumerela said:

1) In what situations would I realise that a mainstream eMTB is not powerful enough and wish I had bought the Bafang with double the torque?
2) Does a battery with 625Wh capacity like the powertubes from Bosch mean more range on a 250W motor, than, say, if I had bought a battery of exactly the same capacity and paired it with the Bafang1000W motor?
3) Most mainstream bikes weigh around 25 kg (55 pounds) - does this give the 250W motor at least a little extra advantage with regards to its torque efficiency compared to the Bafang 1000W motor on a DYI conversion which would weigh 5 more kilos (11 pounds)?
All in all, how efficient woudl you say is the Bosch Performance + Power Pack combo on an enduro bike compared to a DIY BBSHD 1000w that has been paired with a 1000Wh battery?
Thank you all so much in advance, you are awesome!

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1) Torque is multiplied through gearing anyway, so it doesn't really matter (you can gear down enough to wheelie over). Motor power does matter, and if the BBSHD does 1000W continuous vs Bosch 250W continuous, that's a substantial difference.

2) The Bosch will be lighter, more aero, and more efficient, so it will have a greater range on the same capacity.

3) Same for 1 & 2: torque doesn't matter; the lighter Bosch bike does give some extra advantage.

They're quite different, so if you're not sure, the Bosch will be better supported, easier to use and more polished, and more reliable.

Jumbo batteries (900Wh) will fit in triangle on giant trance 2008-2012. 29inch will be hard fitt, maybe triangle battery cases.

1) Torque is multiplied through gearing anyway, so it doesn't really matter (you can gear down enough to wheelie over). Motor power does matter, and if the BBSHD does 1000W continuous vs Bosch 250W continuous, that's a substantial difference.

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Given the same RPM on both, torque would tell you what kind of wheel thrust you can expect from either in the same gearing. Lower gearing would be able to give the torque certainly, but will reduce top speed unless you can spin the motor much faster. Interesting tradeoff.

2) The Bosch will be lighter, more aero, and more efficient, so it will have a greater range on the same capacity.

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Lighter is definitely a benefit that will require less energy to accelerate and lift. Would be interesting to see what the costs of the extra weight are separate from the electric efficiency of either drive. Aero? Is there wind tunnel tests out there?

The bosch drives I have tried were programed very well and were very good on the battery. Would take a bit of work to get the HD to run as frugal but its a completely different power class of a ride. If you want to go fast, the bosch gets dropped big time.

Would love to see the repair and support records for all of the systems, both new and older systems. It would help us all.

Certainly, lots more can go wrong with a system made up out of various open source components rather than a system with everything made for the specific application. Tradeoff is being locked into a proprietary system of limited adaptability and capability. Both suffer for some of this. Glad to see the efforts by Grin making it easier to adapt external controller to the HD.

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If you are doing any jumping you'll break the BBSHD bottom bracket.

Anyone know what the Nm torque is for the BBSHD? Curious how it compares to all the LBS e-bikes. Also doesnt BFANG have a motor that is more comparable to what the LBS e-bikes I think it's 120 Nm how does that compare to a BBSHD?