Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

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JimVonBaden   100 W

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Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by JimVonBaden » Apr 14 2021 11:41am

So, in the interest of optimizing my Kelly Controller, KLS 7245 H, and to get some opinions, here is a video of it running. It makes an odd noise, and has since installed, but runs great, with only a slight initial hesitation.

Background, Vespa conversion, 72V 38ah battery, Kelly KLS7245H controller, QS 205 4kw V3 hub motor with a 10" wheel.

https://youtu.be/1awk6_YSeJM

These are my BMS and settings, it is a Daly BMS:
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These are my settings on my Kelly Controller.
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Any thoughts? I'm open to making it faster and get more miles per charge, with more miles taking the more important role.

Tommm   100 kW

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by Tommm » Apr 14 2021 12:43pm

I had a similar noise in a certain RPM range with an ASI BAC (also FOC) on a different motor, it was fixed in software after loading a different config and doing autotune.

You should ask for a working config from anyone with a high power kelly and a hub motor, and start from their config.

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JimVonBaden   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by JimVonBaden » Apr 14 2021 1:08pm

Good to know, and what I was hoping to hear. Now to find someone who has a similar configuration.

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JimVonBaden   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by JimVonBaden » Apr 27 2021 1:26pm

So, can anyone lend a hand with a suggested configuration?

Tommm   100 kW

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by Tommm » Apr 27 2021 2:04pm

JimVonBaden wrote:
Apr 27 2021 1:26pm
So, can anyone lend a hand with a suggested configuration?
If it doesn't work here I would try in the kelly thread, or search for kelly word in es facebook group and ask an owner there.

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_GonZo_   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by _GonZo_ » Apr 28 2021 2:57am

Hi, I made some videos about Kelly Controllers configuration, here is the first one of the series: hope it helps.
I do not have time to look at all parameters you posted now, but will revise them latter tonight and will let you know if I see something that can be improved.

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JimVonBaden   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by JimVonBaden » Apr 29 2021 8:58am

I've seen this. It is good, but not really applicable to mine.

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_GonZo_   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by _GonZo_ » Apr 30 2021 5:39am

I've seen this. It is good, but not really applicable to mine.
Yes, it is fully aplicable to yours, as it is made with the same series of controller KLS.

After looking to your parameters, I have found some of them that can be improved in order to make the motor run smoother:
- Number of poles: It Should be 32 not 16 (The QS 205 4kw V3 has 16 pole pairs so 16x2=32)
- PWM frequency: It should be 10Khz or 20Khz I don't know how it let you set it at 16... Put it at 20Khz is better to avoid noise in hub motors.
- Run an identification angle procedure in order to make sure it is getting it well.

Hope it helps

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JimVonBaden   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by JimVonBaden » Apr 30 2021 9:53am

_GonZo_ wrote:
Apr 30 2021 5:39am
I've seen this. It is good, but not really applicable to mine.
Yes, it is fully aplicable to yours, as it is made with the same series of controller KLS.

After looking to your parameters, I have found some of them that can be improved in order to make the motor run smoother:
- Number of poles: It Should be 32 not 16 (The QS 205 4kw V3 has 16 pole pairs so 16x2=32)
- PWM frequency: It should be 10Khz or 20Khz I don't know how it let you set it at 16... Put it at 20Khz is better to avoid noise in hub motors.
- Run an identification angle procedure in order to make sure it is getting it well.

Hope it helps
So the type of controller, by appearance is irrelevant? Mine looks like this:
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I'll give your settings a try.

Thanks,!

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_GonZo_   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by _GonZo_ » Apr 30 2021 3:42pm

So the type of controller, by appearance is irrelevant?
Yes, as far as they are the same series, only changes some characteristics between them; power, IP, and other little differences. The one I used in that videos is same as your but less powerful and lower IP.
Even between different Kelly series, programming parameters are quite similar. :wink:

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JimVonBaden   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by JimVonBaden » May 01 2021 6:55pm

Made the adjustments, no change.

Edit. The system needs to be restarted. I went through the Kelly manual and made a ton of adjustments, including your suggestions.

All I can say is holy shit. It is a rocket off the line now, even with my fat ass on it, and no odd noises. No time today for an extended ride, but I am betting it will go even faster than 62mph, and get better miles. It is 100% improved, and way more fun to ride. It nearly pulled itself out of my hands the first time I nailed the throttle. :shock:

Thanks so much for your help! :bigthumb:

I recorded the new settings, and will display them for all soon.

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JimVonBaden   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by JimVonBaden » May 02 2021 6:26pm

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_GonZo_   100 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by _GonZo_ » May 04 2021 4:23am

All I can say is holy shit. It is a rocket off the line now, even with my fat ass on it, and no odd noises. No time today for an extended ride, but I am betting it will go even faster than 62mph, and get better miles. It is 100% improved, and way more fun to ride. It nearly pulled itself out of my hands the first time I nailed the throttle. :shock:
Happy to ear that. :D Enjoy. :flame:

soyachips   1 W

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by soyachips » Jan 26 2022 7:13pm

Good to hear you got everything working well. Have you made any more adjustments to the settings to improve overall performance? I have a similar setup and am trying to improve the initial acceleration from stand still as there's a bit of a lag or hesitation when I try to take off too quickly.

Below are the settings that I understand to be related:
- Accel Time: 1
- Accel Release Time: 1
- Torque Speed Kp: 4000
- Torque Speed Ki: 300
- Speed Err Limit: 3000
- Current Percent: 100
- Bat Current Limit: 100

Not sure if these are related:
- Max Speed: 6000
- Max Forw Speed%: 100

I'd really like to understand what the three PID settings do and how to adjust them properly. Any ideas?

Also you have Current Percent: 110, I didn't realise you could go over 100 for this as the user manual says range 20-100.

Thanks!

NoSmoke   1 mW

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Re: Kelly KLS Controller Optimizing.

Post by NoSmoke » Apr 13 2022 6:14pm

This is an interesting thread for me as I have just purchased/installed a KLS6030N for a Venom E-Grizzly quad (I didn't like the throttle response characteristics and lack of config capability for the OEM controller). So far, so good and am about to try adjusting the PID variables as yourself. The Kelly unit is also noticeably quieter as it is sinusoidal rather than trapazoid.

Wiki has a good article on PID control which I would recommend. In summary, Kp is the P (Proportional part of it - adjustments to the controller output are based proportionately on the difference between actual motor RPMs and that requested by the throttle position). Ki is the I (Integral part of it - adjustments based on the difference integrated over time). The D is adjustments made on the rate of change of the difference. The total output adjustment is the sum of the three.

Not sure what Speed Err Limit is. It's possible that PI is only used. Kelly seems to say though that increasing all three will increase acceleration response and vice versa.

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