Setting up Phaserunner with mostly unknown motor specs?

jametheth

1 µW
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Apr 28, 2021
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TLDR; What methods are there to try to figure out motor specs for configuring a Phaserunner when you know little about the motor?


I bought "36v 500w" geared front hub in a 700c wheel conversion kit back in late 2018, came from ebikling.com, is a stainless steel/silver instead of the black ones they sell now. Came with a 20a controller, producing well over 500w on a 36v pack.

I found a thread here that references the exact kit I got, and there is mention that it looks like a SWX02 motor, and some other interesting bits about ebikeling shipping out funky high speed windings on some wheel sizes that probably shouldn't be.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94555

Anywhoo, I added a CA 3 recently, and decided I want to swap out the controller with a PhaseRunner too, and have one on the way.

I know it is way overkill for this motor, but I love the program-ability and flexibility of the Grin stuff, and it will likely make its way to a new build in the future.

So I have a rough idea that the motor is possibly a SWX02, but I don't know anything about the winding, the rpm/v etc..

The motor has no markings whatsoever other then an ebikeling logo.


How easy is it to get a Phaserunner setup with a motor of unknown specs?

Are there any tips or tricks to deducing some of this motor spec info?



I have a feeling this motor is probably a pretty fast wind, on 36v pack, 700c wheels, it gets up over 25+mph (40+kph) on the flats pretty easily, and I can hear it struggle at lower speeds on inclines, though all in all it does pretty damn good.
 
jametheth said:
How easy is it to get a Phaserunner setup with a motor of unknown specs?


very easy. just run autotune from phaserunner program. if not first try success, load some similar type motor defaults and try again autotune.
 
Read the Autotune & programming instructions about pole count settings, you'll need to know that value. You may need to open it up to get a count and gear ratio multiplier.
 
Thanks for the replies guys!

I got the Phaserunner in over the weekend, and started playing with it.

Sure enough it was easy as pie to get the controller and the motor happily working together.

For the magnetic pole count setting; I found a setting in my old controllers configuration that was "P07 – Speed measuring magnet" and was set to a value of 86. I went ahead and used that as my number in the Phaserunner pole count, and it seems to be working great.

The Phaserunner is so incredibly smooth and quick to respond to inputs compared to my old cheap-o kit controller, even with almost all default values.

One quick question regarding using a Phaserunner and a CA-3 together; is it best to leave the Phaserunner power limits pretty much maxed out, and then set all the various limits in the CA3?

Things like battery amp limit, motor power watt limit, etc is what I am wondering, seems like the ease of having the options configurable on the fly at the CA3 is preferable, but is there any drawbacks to that approach?
 
jametheth said:
One quick question regarding using a Phaserunner and a CA-3 together; is it best to leave the Phaserunner power limits pretty much maxed out, and then set all the various limits in the CA3?

Things like battery amp limit, motor power watt limit, etc is what I am wondering, seems like the ease of having the options configurable on the fly at the CA3 is preferable, but is there any drawbacks to that approach?


yes. because with CA its possible to use different predefined presets, and you want phaserunner settings to be "bigger" or atleast same than biggest preset in CA.

If your BMS shuts off at 70A, and battery can give 50A continuous, adjust CA to 50A, and Phaserunner something like 59,7A for example. Works good.

exceptions:
-phase current, its adjustted from phaserunner. but most motors can handle 96A without problems.Adjust it according motor.
-max regen battery current. You dont want to this be bigger than battery and bms can take. for example i have 8,1A which is max charge current for my battery....
 
Another question related to inter-play of CAv3 and Phasrunner;

For PAS control with a basic cadence based PAS sensor setup, is it better to leave the CAv3 PAS mode in Basic (Pwr) mode, or set to Basic (ThO)?

Technically they both would produce a watt/torque based output from the Phaserunner, but is there draw backs or benefits to one or the other making the decision?

Is it better to have the Phaserunner control its actual power output itself, or have the CAv3 use its sensor PID loops to handle it through throttle modulation?
 
jametheth said:
Another question related to inter-play of CAv3 and Phasrunner;

For PAS control with a basic cadence based PAS sensor setup, is it better to leave the CAv3 PAS mode in Basic (Pwr) mode, or set to Basic (ThO)?

Technically they both would produce a watt/torque based output from the Phaserunner, but is there draw backs or benefits to one or the other making the decision?

Is it better to have the Phaserunner control its actual power output itself, or have the CAv3 use its sensor PID loops to handle it through throttle modulation?

Personal preference, you'll find that they behave very differently, I prefer ThrO.
 
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