Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

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pullin-gs   1 kW

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Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by pullin-gs » Jan 01 2022 4:35pm

My newest build. I need to have brake lever feedback so wife's PAS and cruise function to work safely.
No big deal I suppose. Unfortunately in my zeal while designing it I overlooked brake switches.
I even CUT the brake leads/connector to controller to free up space inside the tight battery/electronics triangle box!
On top of that I ordered hydraulic brakes which had no integrated brake switch(es).
Brakes are mounted up and dialed in.
I bought a grip-style shifter because integrated shifter on doner-bike's got tossed when I put on hydraulic brakes.
Yesterday I was finishing final touches on battery box when I realize "Doh!....I need brake feedback in order for PAS/cruise to work!!).
Three fixes:
1)Spend a ton of money and do it right with a hydraulic brake lever w/integrated switch...to expensive.
2)Dig a N/on reed switch out of parts-bin and hack a solution....to much work to make it functional and not look like a hack.
3)Pull out the stock bike's cable actuated calipers/cables and re-install. I already have a switch-brake lever from another project (I bought a pair....only used one). Done. Only took about an hour, but finished. Have some integrated shifter clearance issues with throttle, but should be able to work it out. Controller fix was easy...I left 1 inch worth of pigtail wires sticking our of controller for connectors I cut off.

Done. I feel better. :-)

calab   100 kW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by calab » Jan 05 2022 2:06am

Glad the dump feels good always does why people take verbal dumps and verbal diarrhea but I must say yours was more informative as problem solving skills are lacking in todays society if I may dump a bit myself. What is the system kit you installed anything of note like kelly sabvoton or just the usual generic stuff
pullin-gs wrote:
Jan 01 2022 4:35pm
My newest build. I need to have brake lever feedback so wife's PAS and cruise function to work safely.
No big deal I suppose. Unfortunately in my zeal while designing it I overlooked brake switches.
I even CUT the brake leads/connector to controller to free up space inside the tight battery/electronics triangle box!
On top of that I ordered hydraulic brakes which had no integrated brake switch(es).
Brakes are mounted up and dialed in.
I bought a grip-style shifter because integrated shifter on doner-bike's got tossed when I put on hydraulic brakes.
Yesterday I was finishing final touches on battery box when I realize "Doh!....I need brake feedback in order for PAS/cruise to work!!).
Three fixes:
1)Spend a ton of money and do it right with a hydraulic brake lever w/integrated switch...to expensive.
2)Dig a N/on reed switch out of parts-bin and hack a solution....to much work to make it functional and not look like a hack.
3)Pull out the stock bike's cable actuated calipers/cables and re-install. I already have a switch-brake lever from another project (I bought a pair....only used one). Done. Only took about an hour, but finished. Have some integrated shifter clearance issues with throttle, but should be able to work it out. Controller fix was easy...I left 1 inch worth of pigtail wires sticking our of controller for connectors I cut off.

Done. I feel better. :-)

pullin-gs   1 kW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by pullin-gs » Jan 06 2022 12:14pm

Generic hydraulics. My last build I loved feel/performance/reliability, so no-brainer to go with them again. Wife needed PAS and Cruise....I overlooked brake switch. So I re-insalled the low-end mechanical calipers that came off doner bike along with some nicer cables and switch-type brake levers. Seem to be OK on bike stand, so will give them a try.

99t4   10 kW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by 99t4 » Jan 06 2022 9:46pm

Is a magnet reed switch like this really that hard to incorporate?

https://www.leafbike.com/products/elect ... -1213.html

Honestly curious because am planning to retrofit this to my next project, FS MTB with nice existing Shimano hydraulic brakes.

khorse   10 W

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by khorse » Jan 14 2022 9:20pm

Seems like more effort to replace all your brakes than it is to epoxy a reed switch on the lever.

pullin-gs   1 kW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by pullin-gs » Jan 15 2022 8:54am

khorse wrote:
Jan 14 2022 9:20pm
Seems like more effort to replace all your brakes than it is to epoxy a reed switch on the lever.
Did you take into account what work is actually needed to follow through with your very detailed analysis?:
*Find and purchase reed switch
*Use a big honking magnet from parts box or purchase a smaller neodymium magnet.
*Wait a week to get
*Fabricate wire harness along with connectors (using fine multi-strand wire....solder connections/connectors...shrink when done)
*Prep switch (solder and shrink-protect assembly)
*Attach switch to brake lever with epoxy
*Attach magnet to lever
*Clean up epoxy mess
*Sand and paint epoxy blob holding everything together.
*Works! But still looks like an afterthought hack.
*Go ride! :-D One week later. :-(

---or---

*Remove hydraulic brakes...about 2 minutes.
*Attach original calipers, cables...about 5 minutes
*Put on brake levers (already one with integrated switch and cable)....another 5 minutes.
*Dial-in new brakes....another 5 minutes.
*Done. Go ride. Less than 20 minutes later! :-D

pullin-gs   1 kW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by pullin-gs » Jan 15 2022 9:11am

99t4 wrote:
Jan 06 2022 9:46pm
Is a magnet reed switch like this really that hard to incorporate?

https://www.leafbike.com/products/elect ... -1213.html

Honestly curious because am planning to retrofit this to my next project, FS MTB with nice existing Shimano hydraulic brakes.
This would make job a simpler than roll-your-own approach listed above. Thanks for the link. :-)
I would like to see a vendor offer a hydraulic pressure switch option which inserts into the hydraulic hose. I would have considered this route if it were readily available. I'd position the switch on the hose portion closest to the electronics assembly which would have eliminated another cable from bars.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by tomjasz » Jan 15 2022 9:21am

Maybe building isn’t for you. Jeebus, it’s sad to see such a simple project turned into a drama.

pullin-gs wrote:
Jan 15 2022 8:54am
khorse wrote:
Jan 14 2022 9:20pm
Seems like more effort to replace all your brakes than it is to epoxy a reed switch on the lever.
Did you take into account what work is actually needed to follow through with your very detailed analysis?:
*Find and purchase reed switch
*Use a big honking magnet from parts box or purchase a smaller neodymium magnet.
*Wait a week to get
*Fabricate wire harness along with connectors (using fine multi-strand wire....solder connections/connectors...shrink when done)
*Prep switch (solder and shrink-protect assembly)
*Attach switch to brake lever with epoxy
*Attach magnet to lever
*Clean up epoxy mess
*Sand and paint epoxy blob holding everything together.
*Works! But still looks like an afterthought hack.
*Go ride! :-D One week later. :-(

---or---

*Remove hydraulic brakes...about 2 minutes.
*Attach original calipers, cables...about 5 minutes
*Put on brake levers (already one with integrated switch and cable)....another 5 minutes.
*Dial-in new brakes....another 5 minutes.
*Done. Go ride. Less than 20 minutes later! :-D
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by tomjasz » Jan 15 2022 9:28am

pullin-gs wrote:
Jan 15 2022 9:11am

I would like to see a vendor offer a hydraulic pressure switch option which inserts into the hydraulic hose. I would have considered this route if it were readily available. I'd position the switch on the hose portion closest to the electronics assembly which would have eliminated another cable from bars.
So a switch in hydraulic fluid is easier?


The Queen in "Hamlet"
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

pullin-gs   1 kW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by pullin-gs » Jan 15 2022 9:41am

tomjasz wrote:
Jan 15 2022 9:21am
Maybe building isn’t for you. Jeebus, it’s sad to see such a simple project turned into a drama.
I supposed the uniformed may come to that conclusion.
Please enlighten me on how the level of effort I described for each option is off?
PS: The poster said it was easier to go with switch...I outlined why it was not.
You can talk-the-talk or walk-the-walk. I always go with the latter.
This build turned out great BTW! :-D
Mid-fat 24 inch bike. Purpose-designed so wife can ride local fire roads with me.
47 lbs. Max speed 17 MPH on 12S pack. 20 if I opt for 13S geometry. 800W max. 1000 WH 12S4P pack. MECHANICAL BRAKES.
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pullin-gs   1 kW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by pullin-gs » Jan 15 2022 9:46am

tomjasz wrote:
Jan 15 2022 9:28am
So a switch in hydraulic fluid is easier?
The Queen in "Hamlet"
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

It is not easier. But what does that have to do with it being a better and more elegant solution?
You should strive for that with your next build.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by tomjasz » Jan 15 2022 11:12am

I’ve had dozens of support customers as well as a dozen of my own projects. Sorry but I just don’t see it as anywhere near as complex or difficult. Whatever…
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

pullin-gs   1 kW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by pullin-gs » Jan 15 2022 11:55am

tomjasz wrote:
Jan 15 2022 11:12am
I’ve had dozens of support customers as well as a dozen of my own projects. Sorry but I just don’t see it as anywhere near as complex or difficult. Whatever…
Dozens? Wow! When do have time to even use one of them?
I like to spend my time enjoying my builds.
Could you post a few of your projects for us to see? That would be great. :-)
Here are four that I personally built and have used/enjoyed in the last 4 days.
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by Chalo » Jan 15 2022 12:39pm

I don't understand why the fascination with brake lever power cutoff switches, even on low power bikes. No other vehicle we use has them.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

pullin-gs   1 kW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by pullin-gs » Jan 15 2022 12:51pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 15 2022 12:39pm
I don't understand why the fascination with brake lever power cutoff switches, even on low power bikes. No other vehicle we use has them.
Every modern car has them.....it dis-engages the cruise control when you brake.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by Chalo » Jan 15 2022 1:09pm

pullin-gs wrote:
Jan 15 2022 12:51pm
Chalo wrote:
Jan 15 2022 12:39pm
I don't understand why the fascination with brake lever power cutoff switches, even on low power bikes. No other vehicle we use has them.
Every modern car has them.....it dis-engages the cruise control when you brake.
Sure, but it doesn't cut the engine. E-bikes don't need cruise control either; better to have no cruise and no brake switches than to need one to cancel the other.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by khorse » Jan 15 2022 7:42pm

This is histrionic.

I could make walking to get a coke from the fridge sound like a 50 step process if I want. But if it's a lot of stuff like "raise left leg slightly", "lower left leg to place foot on floor 10cm in front of previous location", "raise right leg slightly", everyone would know I was making a big drama out of it for no reason.

If you had confidence in your decision you wouldn't be seeking aproval for it and then lashing out when you don't recieve it universally.
Chalo wrote:
Jan 15 2022 12:39pm
I don't understand why the fascination with brake lever power cutoff switches, even on low power bikes. No other vehicle we use has them.
I ran without them until I got caught out on a slick road where my front wheel slipped under braking and I fell off. I twisted the throttle and the back wheel span the bike around me on the floor. It wasn't pleasant.

Sometimes I use it for hard launches. 100% throttle and then release the brake, instant wheelie machine.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by Chalo » Jan 15 2022 9:46pm

I'm not looking for approval. I'm pointing out that if I didn't need brake interlocks on my 100+ HP motorcycle, why would I need them on my 1.5hp electric bike? And why, other than CPSC red tape, does anyone think they're important safety features on an e-bike when they don't want them on any other vehicle?
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by 99t4 » Jan 15 2022 10:06pm

I like the brake switches for their regen-enabling feature. I have read your previous criticisims of regen but personally I like using it as it suits the terrain I ride daily. Saves brake pads, and it does measurably increase my range.

As such (brake switch enables regen feature), it is present in most all hybrid or full electric automobiles and well used to good effect.

For the other subject-- switch embedded in the hydraulic line-- I prefer not to introduce an additional failure mode into the brake system's innards. A failure there can end up catastrophic. Attaching a switch to the exterior of the brake lever seems much safer to me.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by khorse » Jan 15 2022 10:13pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 15 2022 9:46pm
I'm not looking for approval. I'm pointing out that if I didn't need brake interlocks on my 100+ HP motorcycle, why would I need them on my 1.5hp electric bike? And why, other than CPSC red tape, does anyone think they're important safety features on an e-bike when they don't want them on any other vehicle?
The part where I was taking to you comes after I quoted you. What I said before it was for the OP.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by pullin-gs » Jan 15 2022 10:34pm

khorse wrote:
Jan 15 2022 7:42pm
This is histrionic.
If you had confidence in your decision you wouldn't be seaking aproval for it and then lashing out when you don't recieve it universally.
You may find this link useful:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/webster

Big words are fine and all, but not knowing how to spell the little ones whilst using them is ironic. ;-)

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 12:06am

khorse wrote:
Jan 15 2022 10:13pm
The part where I was taking to you comes after I quoted you. What I said before it was for the OP.
Oh. I see. :|
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by tomjasz » Jan 16 2022 9:14pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 15 2022 9:46pm
I'm not looking for approval. I'm pointing out that if I didn't need brake interlocks on my 100+ HP motorcycle, why would I need them on my 1.5hp electric bike? And why, other than CPSC red tape, does anyone think they're important safety features on an e-bike when they don't want them on any other vehicle?
Our motorcycles didn’t have that as a requirement. Expect states to adopt standards requiring brake cutouts. Varying levels of nanny laws are coming.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by Chalo » Jan 16 2022 10:59pm

tomjasz wrote:
Jan 16 2022 9:14pm
Chalo wrote:
Jan 15 2022 9:46pm
I'm not looking for approval. I'm pointing out that if I didn't need brake interlocks on my 100+ HP motorcycle, why would I need them on my 1.5hp electric bike? And why, other than CPSC red tape, does anyone think they're important safety features on an e-bike when they don't want them on any other vehicle?
Our motorcycles didn’t have that as a requirement. Expect states to adopt standards requiring brake cutouts. Varying levels of nanny laws are coming.
Cars need a power cutoff that detects if there's someone sitting in the driver's seat, and immobilizes the car if there is.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Vent.....had to dump hydraulic brakes because too lazy to hack in a brake switch.

Post by tomjasz » Jan 17 2022 1:07am

Ha! Indeed! Best part of being retired. No cage time!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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