What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

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avandalen   100 W

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What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

Post by avandalen » Jan 22 2022 7:56am

The term torque simulation is confusing.
Is true that means that the motorcurrent is proportional to the throttle voltage ?
I asked this to BMS Battery but got no answer.

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E-HP   1.21 GW

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Re: What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

Post by E-HP » Jan 22 2022 10:03am

avandalen wrote:
Jan 22 2022 7:56am
The term torque simulation is confusing.
Is true that means that the motorcurrent is proportional to the throttle voltage ?
I asked this to BMS Battery but got no answer.
Yes, I believe it usually refers to a current based throttle or PAS rather than speed based. Current based with feel more natural, by applying current proportionally to the input, rather than as much current as possible to achieve a certain speed.

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avandalen   100 W

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Re: What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

Post by avandalen » Jan 22 2022 12:25pm

E-HP wrote:
Jan 22 2022 10:03am
avandalen wrote:
Jan 22 2022 7:56am
The term torque simulation is confusing.
Is true that means that the motorcurrent is proportional to the throttle voltage ?
I asked this to BMS Battery but got no answer.
Yes, I believe it usually refers to a current based throttle or PAS rather than speed based. Current based with feel more natural, by applying current proportionally to the input, rather than as much current as possible to achieve a certain speed.
Thank you. I've wanted current control for a long time, but that didn't exist on Chinese motor controllers before. In fact, current control is almost the same as power control.
Why doesn't Bmsbattery just call it power control?

AHicks   10 kW

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Re: What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

Post by AHicks » Jan 22 2022 1:35pm

^^^ Agree with E-HP ^^^
"Torque Simulation" is a term used by KT (Kunteng) in their configuration/owners manual. It's a Chinglish interpretation for power based cadence as E-HP explains.

The only other similar application that I know of is within the internal Bafang controllers used in their mid drive BBSXX and Ultra motors. There's a single parameter there in their UART based motors that gives you a choice of speed vs power based cadence. Most will highly recommend the power based choice there as well.

Nice thing in both examples as far as I'm concerned, is having the choice.....

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E-HP   1.21 GW

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Re: What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

Post by E-HP » Jan 22 2022 2:42pm

AHicks wrote:
Jan 22 2022 1:35pm
^^^ Agree with E-HP ^^^
"Torque Simulation" is a term used by KT (Kunteng) in their configuration/owners manual. It's a Chinglish interpretation for power based cadence as E-HP explains.

The only other similar application that I know of is within the internal Bafang controllers used in their mid drive BBSXX and Ultra motors. There's a single parameter there in their UART based motors that gives you a choice of speed vs power based cadence. Most will highly recommend the power based choice there as well.

Nice thing in both examples as far as I'm concerned, is having the choice.....
Yup. I think some of the BMS Battery controllers are actually KT, since they appear to use a KT display in the description. Could be wrong, but I thought I saw at least one that seemed to be. And KT does one of the best jobs with the "simulation", since they feel pretty normal and well mannered when riding.

calab   100 kW

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Re: What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

Post by calab » Jan 22 2022 8:56pm

Have you seen any high powered controllers that use torque simulation 1.5kw I have only seen 750-1kw I would also love to try one. Rather save up for a phase runner https://www.ebikes.ca/documents/Phaseru ... Rev2.0.pdf
Unlike most ebike controllers where the throttle signal controls the effective
voltage and hence unloaded RPM of the motor, with a Phaserunner the throttle is
directly controlling the motor torque. If you pick the motor off the ground and give
it just a tiny amount of throttle, it will still spin up to full RPM as there is no load
on the motor. Meanwhile if you are riding the vehicle and apply partial throttle,
you will get a steady torque from the motor which stays constant even as the
vehicle speeds up or slows down. This is different from standard ebike
controllers, where the throttle more directly controls motor speed
E-HP wrote:
Jan 22 2022 2:42pm
AHicks wrote:
Jan 22 2022 1:35pm
^^^ Agree with E-HP ^^^
"Torque Simulation" is a term used by KT (Kunteng) in their configuration/owners manual. It's a Chinglish interpretation for power based cadence as E-HP explains.

The only other similar application that I know of is within the internal Bafang controllers used in their mid drive BBSXX and Ultra motors. There's a single parameter there in their UART based motors that gives you a choice of speed vs power based cadence. Most will highly recommend the power based choice there as well.

Nice thing in both examples as far as I'm concerned, is having the choice.....
Yup. I think some of the BMS Battery controllers are actually KT, since they appear to use a KT display in the description. Could be wrong, but I thought I saw at least one that seemed to be. And KT does one of the best jobs with the "simulation", since they feel pretty normal and well mannered when riding.

AHicks   10 kW

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Re: What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

Post by AHicks » Jan 22 2022 9:12pm

Calab, with all of the complaints surrounding the speed based cadence systems, IMHO, the market is way past due for having more of the power based systems available. I blame it on the market being still so young, and not very sophisticated yet. As the word gets out regarding "power based" systems I think we're going to see them become more widely available as the market matures.

What's hard to swallow, is the fact, again IMHO, that there is NO difference in the hardware used for the power or speed based systems. This difference is only the SOFTWARE run in the controller. All it's going to take is for some of these mickey mouse speed based system sellers to realize they could have a system that's 10 times nicer with a simple change to the crap software they are currently running....

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Re: What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

Post by docw009 » Jan 22 2022 10:21pm

calab wrote:
Jan 22 2022 8:56pm
Have you seen any high powered controllers that use torque simulation 1.5kw I have only seen 750-1kw I would also love to try one. Rather save up for a phase runner https://www.ebikes.ca/documents/Phaseru ... Rev2.0.pdf
This is a 40A KT controller. With 48V, that's almost 2KW. and I have found the 20A and 25A LT units rated honestly. AT least my wattmeters agrees with their peak current.

http://www.topbikekit.com/t12h-36v48v-1 ... p-833.html

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avandalen   100 W

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Re: What means "torque-simulation" at bmsbattery.com?

Post by avandalen » Jan 24 2022 10:42am

My questions have been answered
I have updated my article on my website with the answers
https://www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/electr ... controller

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