CA digital switch - extra button

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E-HP   1.21 GW

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CA digital switch - extra button

Post by E-HP » Jan 23 2022 12:30pm

The digital +/- switch from Grin for the Cycle Analyst comes with a spec card that describes the function of the buttons and the connections. The middle switch is described as an "Extra button for miscellaneous use", and the wiring spec states "2 wires under shrink tube" for that button.

I wanted to test the button to see if it's on/off or momentary, so I peeled back the shrink wrap and didn't find any additional wires. The wires to the 3 pin JSTs is interesting, since both have 4 wires going to them instead of 3 (taking into account they share a single red wire, via a jumper), but no visible wires for the misc switch.

Has anyone used the additional switch, and if so, how?
CA digital.jpg
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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by ATinkerer » Jan 23 2022 1:22pm

Following - Haven't figured out a way to use it either.
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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by thundercamel » Jan 23 2022 4:58pm

Strip back the black jacket a bit to make sure?
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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by E-HP » Jan 23 2022 8:48pm

thundercamel wrote:
Jan 23 2022 4:58pm
Strip back the black jacket a bit to make sure?
Pretty sure there's no room for any more conductors; there's already 8. I could try, but if I have too much more exposed wire, I'll need to remove all the shrink wrap, and remove the pins from the JSTs so I can get everything re-shrink wrapped again. :shock:

I'll wait to see if anyone already figured it out. Maybe the documentation is outdated.

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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by amberwolf » Jan 24 2022 11:21am

I dont' see any shrinkwrap over the cable itself, which is where the spare wires would be (not on the JSTs). The picture isn't at the right angle to see the end of the cable, so I can't see if there are any flush-cut wires in the jacket.

There couldn't be wires farther down the jacket, because the jacket would be distorted from having pulled it back and then forward to cut the wires and then cover them.

So unless there are flush-cut wires pretty much showing right at the cut end of the jacket, there aren't any extra wires in that cable. '
'
If there are 8 wires in the cable, then the two unused wires are for that switch, because only 6 are used for the two 3-pin JSTs.

If there are no (pair of) unused wires, just the 6 that go to the JSTs, then I suspect whatever company made the device for Grin (for cost reasons, they probably don't wire them themselves, but I could be wrong), decided that since the wires weren't being used anyway, they'd just save some money by using a cable with only the wires needed for the connectors. If that's the case, then to use the button, you'd have to add a wire pair for it by opening up the device and soldering them to the switch pins.

Before that, I'd contact Grin directly and ask, if you haven't already, to see if they have run into this themselves or if it's a new issue.
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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by E-HP » Jan 24 2022 1:46pm

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 24 2022 11:21am
I dont' see any shrinkwrap over the cable itself, which is where the spare wires would be (not on the JSTs). The picture isn't at the right angle to see the end of the cable, so I can't see if there are any flush-cut wires in the jacket.

There couldn't be wires farther down the jacket, because the jacket would be distorted from having pulled it back and then forward to cut the wires and then cover them.

So unless there are flush-cut wires pretty much showing right at the cut end of the jacket, there aren't any extra wires in that cable. '
'
If there are 8 wires in the cable, then the two unused wires are for that switch, because only 6 are used for the two 3-pin JSTs.

If there are no (pair of) unused wires, just the 6 that go to the JSTs, then I suspect whatever company made the device for Grin (for cost reasons, they probably don't wire them themselves, but I could be wrong), decided that since the wires weren't being used anyway, they'd just save some money by using a cable with only the wires needed for the connectors. If that's the case, then to use the button, you'd have to add a wire pair for it by opening up the device and soldering them to the switch pins.

Before that, I'd contact Grin directly and ask, if you haven't already, to see if they have run into this themselves or if it's a new issue.
The odd thing is that each 3 pin JST has 4 wires going to them. The only shrink wrap I haven't removed are the ones cover the JST connectors, but I was going to try avoiding that, since at that point I'd need to disassemble the JSTs in order to get everything re-shrink wrapped. There are definitely no additional wires in the main cable though.

Slightly better pictures:
JSTs.jpg
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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by amberwolf » Jan 24 2022 5:17pm

E-HP wrote:
Jan 24 2022 1:46pm


The odd thing is that each 3 pin JST has 4 wires going to them.
In the new pics I can see a bit better from the different angles.

I see the female JST (the one with holes for contacts) with a brown, white, and yellow wire from the cable.

I see the male JST (the one with pins for contacts) with a red, blue, and green wire from the cable. There may also be a black wire; I can't tell for sure. If there is, then that's 7 total wires from the cable itself that I can see.

There is a loop of thicker red wire going from one JST to the other, but that's irrelevant since it doesn't go to the device and it's button; it's not a 4th wire.

How many total wires do you have coming out of the actual cable (regardless of where they go)? Not including the thicker red wire, which doesn't come from the cable.


Since the loop of wire probably goes from one JST to the other to connect a common signal (5v, most likely), then there are only 5 wires from teh cable to the JST itself, meaning that two of the wires are "spare", and probably loose inside the JST heatshrink. My guess is that both of these are in the same JST heatshrink, and thus are in the connector with 5 total wires in it (the loop, plus four others).


If there was never any heatshrink on the cable itself, or if there was but the "loose" wires weren't tucked into it, then they are probably just tucked into the heatshrink of the JSTs (which is not how they were on my old Grinfineons from a few years back; those were a loop of wire tucked back into the main cable itself, for the unconnected reversing wire pair I needed to use for my trike).

If they are, then a very gentle tug on each of the wires within the JST heatshrink will reveal exactly which wires are crimped into it's contacts, and which, if any, are not. That's all it took for me to pull them out on the Grinfineon cable.


The only shrink wrap I haven't removed are the ones cover the JST connectors, but I was going to try avoiding that, since at that point I'd need to disassemble the JSTs in order to get everything re-shrink wrapped. There are definitely no additional wires in the main cable though.

FWIW, if there's no unused wires in the cable (if they are all crimped to pins in the JSTs), then it makes no difference what is in the JSTs, and no need to remove their heatshrink, because they won't get you back up into the device and it's button. ;) (unless the JSTs are miswired; you can test this with a multimeter, or connecting it to the CA and testing the functions of each control on the device)
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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by ATinkerer » Jan 24 2022 6:26pm

Got curious enough to pull the shrink wrap off of mine.
There is a brown lead that is not connected hidden in the wrap. It's short enough that I will have to splice something onto it if I were to connect it. Now to determine what happens when each button is pushed. Ground and +5 are defined in the diagram. State change?
20220124_145700.jpg
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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by amberwolf » Jan 24 2022 7:22pm

ATinkerer wrote:
Jan 24 2022 6:26pm
There is a brown lead that is not connected hidden in the wrap. It's short enough that I will have to splice something onto it if I were to connect it.
The paperwork says there's two wires for the unused switch/button, presumably one on each pin (side) of it.
Now to determine what happens when each button is pushed. Ground and +5 are defined in the diagram. State change?
If you mean the two buttons on the top and bottom, they are defined on the paperwork as pictured by E-HP; you setup the CA to use this switch in addition to or instead of the 3-position switch (by itself, only one JST is used (connected to the CA aux in), for both, the 3-position switch plugs into the other JST on this one and then this one's wiring passes that thru to the CA's aux in.

IIRC the actual internal wiring of that (not counting the spare button) should be in the manual, if not it should be on the ebikes.ca page for that device, and if not, it is in the CA manual, or in the CA v3 "beta" thread under one or more of the digiaux posts from Justin_LE.
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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by ATinkerer » Jan 24 2022 7:39pm

Confirmed the dark blue wire in my photo was not connected, tucked up into the shrink sleeve, so two wires available.
Not going to get back to this for a couple of days. Have some trail work to do while the weather is dryer.
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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by E-HP » Jan 24 2022 7:48pm

ATinkerer wrote:
Jan 24 2022 7:39pm
Confirmed the dark blue wire in my photo was not connected, tucked up into the shrink sleeve, so two wires available.
Not going to get back to this for a couple of days. Have some trail work to do while the weather is dryer.
OK that's good info. I'll see if tugging on the brown and blue wires that currently appear to be going under the shrink wrap for the two JSTs are actually loose. Currently a red, white, brown and yellow go to one JST and red, green, black, and blue to to the other.

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Re: CA digital switch - extra button

Post by E-HP » Jan 24 2022 7:57pm

Solved!

It's a momentary normally open switch, connected via the spare blue and brown wires. I guess I won't be using it for my controller on/off, but should work for my controller's cruise control function. Thanks all for your help, and ATinkerer for having the guts to pull on the wires. :bigthumb:
Spare Wires.jpg
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