Upgrading 1500w kit Controller - recommendations?

spaceship

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Mar 21, 2022
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Vancouver Island, BC
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Hi,

I am looking to upgrade the controller that came with my cheap CSC 1500w rear hub kit. The motor is the same as the one that comes with the Violamart kits, I think. It has a 12x5 winding and came rated at 1500w. How much can I expect to push this motor say if it put in statoraide to help with cooling? I'm going to be swapping everything over to a full suspension downhill bike that I picked up.

I currently have a 52v20ah battery with 50a BMS. Looking to put a bit more power to the motor and a bit of room to upgrade battery if the motor can handle it. Something that provides some tunable features and good throttle control would be good (dont need pedal assist). I hear Sabvoton, Kelly, Vesc talked about.

Also should I go for something with its own display or pick up a Cycle Analyst?
 
In general; direct drive hub motors like yours can take a good burst of flogging before overheating. If I had to guess; you can probably do 3000W peaks for 30 seconds or so. Statorade will help for sure.

Definitely go with a programmable controller. Check out some of the KT style controllers; most of them are programmable and thier is also open source firmware available if you want to give that a shot. It's hard to say but perhaps your controller is programmable already; it may just need to be setup for it.

I like the Cycle Analyst for a general display and it's build quality (been using one for over 10 years) but it may not be necessary if all you need to see is basic info like speed, battery voltage etc...
 
What about squarewave vs sinewave? Is it correct that sinewave is generally higher quality/better? I would like silent operation so am probably looking for something sinewave. What about field-oriented vs basic control?

There are so many different options and so many different venders its a little overwhelming and there is quite a bit of information to try and digest.
 
1. What is the cell configuration? 14s6p?
2. Is the pack constructed with a nickel strip for each cell in the parallel group on the series connections? (6 strips each in the above example)
3. What are the continuous and maximum current ratings specified for the model of cells used in the pack's construction?
4. What is the maximum temperature rating for the cells used in the pack's construction? Does the BMS use temperature sensors that cut power when outside of the programmed temperature range? What is the programmed temperature range? Where in the pack are the temperature sensors located?
5. What gauge of copper is used for the power wires coming out of the battery?
6. Is there a fuse inside the battery pack and what is it's rating?

It sounds like your pack is rated for 50 amps peak, and you're currently pulling about 33 amps at full throttle. It depends on usage, but I would bet if you were pulling say 45 amps for long periods, something in the battery would get damaged, whether it's one of the series nickel strips vaporizing, insulation melting, or cell longevity being damaged from high temperatures. Tis a free country though, and Canada is a little more free than USA these days.
 
thundercamel said:
1. What is the cell configuration? 14s6p?

It sounds like your pack is rated for 50 amps peak, and you're currently pulling about 33 amps at full throttle. It depends on usage, but I would bet if you were pulling say 45 amps for long periods, something in the battery would get damaged

My first UPP triangle seems close to the OPs. 14S8P, 52V 20Ah, generic Chinese cells, like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/194902266502

It could do 30A continuous, and had a 30A BMS, but sagged a lot when pulling 40A. I could believe 50A for the OP's pack if the pack were made of 30Q cells, but not from the generic cells.

My second UPP pack, also 14S8P, but made of 35E cells and will output 40A comfortably, and 60A with moderate sag. The pack has a 40A BMS. 35E are rated at 8A continuous, so in theory they'd be good for 64A continuous, but there's so much sag, I think 40A would be a legitimate continuous pack rating. Max output from the 35E's is 13A, but the max my CA recorded is 120A from the pack, or 15A per cell, so it could put out a lot for fraction of a second, without tripping the BMS.

Basically the rating of the BMS provides no indication of the pack's actual capability. With generic cells, 30A continous is about right. With UPP, if you want something besides generic cells, you have to explicitly order them that way. They ended up calling me from China before they went ahead and assembled my pack, both about the cells and BMS. First time I've gotten a call from China on an ebay purchase.
 
The info I have from UPP avout the cells is 2500mah chinese cells 3C discharge rating.

So from my understanding 3C means each cell is tested to discharge at 7.5A. 52v20Ah with 2.5Ah cells would make it 14s8p, so in theory the pack should be able to put out 60A. Maybe not a great idea to try and run 60A continuous, but I am looking more for extra power in short bursts - more torque when accellerating from a stop. With the bms limiting to 50A I assume it should be ok to push 50A for short bursts
 
spaceship said:
The info I have from UPP avout the cells is 2500mah chinese cells 3C discharge rating.

So from my understanding 3C means each cell is tested to discharge at 7.5A. 52v20Ah with 2.5Ah cells would make it 14s8p, so in theory the pack should be able to put out 60A. Maybe not a great idea to try and run 60A continuous, but I am looking more for extra power in short bursts - more torque when accellerating from a stop. With the bms limiting to 50A I assume it should be ok to push 50A for short bursts

Then that's the exact pack I have as far as cells go. It'll have a shorter life if you push it that much. Plenty of life left, and is used for backup power for power outages now. The new pack, with 35E's rated a 8A is way more capable than the generic, so there's no way the generic cells could put out 7.5A, and you'll kill the pack if you run it as if they could.
 
E-HP said:
spaceship said:
The info I have from UPP avout the cells is 2500mah chinese cells 3C discharge rating.

So from my understanding 3C means each cell is tested to discharge at 7.5A. 52v20Ah with 2.5Ah cells would make it 14s8p, so in theory the pack should be able to put out 60A. Maybe not a great idea to try and run 60A continuous, but I am looking more for extra power in short bursts - more torque when accellerating from a stop. With the bms limiting to 50A I assume it should be ok to push 50A for short bursts

Then that's the exact pack I have as far as cells go. It'll have a shorter life if you push it that much. Plenty of life left, and is used for backup power for power outages now. The new pack, with 35E's rated a 8A is way more capable than the generic, so there's no way the generic cells could put out 7.5A, and you'll kill the pack if you run it as if they could.

Ok, so it seems like you are saying that as long as I am using this battery I should just keep using the 35A controller right?

I do have 100 salvaged and tested good LG MH1 cells that I plan to build a diy pack with. They tested good with 3200mah capacity +/- 50mah and are rated for 10A discharge. Do you have any recommendations on what kind of pack I should build and a controller to match the new battery?
 
spaceship said:
Ok, so it seems like you are saying that as long as I am using this battery I should just keep using the 35A controller right?

I do have 100 salvaged and tested good LG MH1 cells that I plan to build a diy pack with. They tested good with 3200mah capacity +/- 50mah and are rated for 10A discharge. Do you have any recommendations on what kind of pack I should build and a controller to match the new battery?

Yes, the battery will live a longer happier life that way. If you upped the controller amps, you'd start seeing a lot more voltage sag, so you wouldn't get that much more power since that offsets part of the increase in current.

You could make a 7P pack with the LGs and probably get 50A and more peak, if the cells are still in good shape.
 
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