Any reason to buy a Classic Trap controller versus an FOC controller anymore?

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Jun 15, 2019
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As the title states, with the extreme advances FOC controllers have made, is there any reason anymore to buy older Trapezoid controllers versus them? Offerings from Flipsky seem to be slightly more expensive for something that gives you regen (depending on motor of course) and offer far more "refinement". Or is there something this newbie is missing?
 
Yes.

They're significantly less expensive and very simple.
They make the motor make noise ( you may want that - 'loud stators save lives' ).
They're typically many times easier to tune.
As for me, i like the infineon clones.. i've still yet to find a FOC you can run a physical 3 speed switch on, and that functionality is very important to me.

That being said, the FOC is a superior controller by most measures.. it's more of a matter of taste/budget.
 
On that pricepoint, I thought an equivalent FOC controller was only going for ~$10 more than a trap? Good point on ease of tuning and their simplicity.

2 Questions- Infineon clones? And how do you use the 3-speed switch?
 
Find me a cheap FOC/Sinewave controller of half decent power ratings and I'd buy it, depending on where and who its being sold by.

About the best you can do for cheap sinewave is the PWS low wattage stuff.
https://www.pswpower.com/collections/sine-wave-controller
I need 1800w yet I seek 2500w.


CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
On that pricepoint, I thought an equivalent FOC controller was only going for ~$10 more than a trap? Good point on ease of tuning and their simplicity.

2 Questions- Infineon clones? And how do you use the 3-speed switch?
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
On that pricepoint, I thought an equivalent FOC controller was only going for ~$10 more than a trap? Good point on ease of tuning and their simplicity.

2 Questions- Infineon clones? And how do you use the 3-speed switch?

Pricepoint wise.. not usually.. the flipsky/vesc stuff is particularly cheap for FOC controllers mainly because the designs and software to run them are open sourced.

Infineon clones, IDK if i have a source for them anymore.. i also don't know if lyen is still in business ( http://lyen.com/ )
The 3 speed switch, i like very much.. i set my controller speeds to ~66% ( easy cruising at 30mph ), 100% ( usually around 40mph ), and 120% ( usually 45-50mph ).

I love having that 3 speed switch because i can alternate between motorcycle like speeds ( when i need to - IE i am on a street with a 45mph speed limit and the bicycle lane is about to suddenly disappear, so i should go in the car lane ), and bike like speeds for all situations where i have a bike lane or a low speed limit ( rare ).
 
neptronix said:
The 3 speed switch, i like very much.. i set my controller speeds to ~66% ( easy cruising at 30mph ), 100% ( usually around 40mph ), and 120% ( usually 45-50mph ).

I love having that 3 speed switch because i can alternate between motorcycle like speeds ( when i need to - IE i am on a street with a 45mph speed limit and the bicycle lane is about to suddenly disappear, so i should go in the car lane ), and bike like speeds for all situations where i have a bike lane or a low speed limit ( rare ).

I have mine set in exactly the same way, but almost always ride in low. But having the other speeds easily accessible is great. I didn't know I couldn't live without one until I had one.
 
neptronix said:
Pricepoint wise.. not usually.. the flipsky/vesc stuff is particularly cheap for FOC controllers mainly because the designs and software to run them are open sourced.

Infineon clones, IDK if i have a source for them anymore.. i also don't know if lyen is still in business ( http://lyen.com/ )
The 3 speed switch, i like very much.. i set my controller speeds to ~66% ( easy cruising at 30mph ), 100% ( usually around 40mph ), and 120% ( usually 45-50mph ).

I love having that 3 speed switch because i can alternate between motorcycle like speeds ( when i need to - IE i am on a street with a 45mph speed limit and the bicycle lane is about to suddenly disappear, so i should go in the car lane ), and bike like speeds for all situations where i have a bike lane or a low speed limit ( rare ).
Hm, I see with the Flipsky.

I'm honestly not sure if Lyen is still around. I've heard it claimed they used to post frequently on here, but I've never seen any posts from them and even Wordpress blogs from ~7 years ago extolling their virtues are dropping off.

But i've never heard of a 3-speed switch before, but I can see why they'd be so nice. My kinda-functional Sondors THIN only has a thumb throttle.
 
neptronix said:
The 3 speed switch, i like very much.. i set my controller speeds to ~66% ( easy cruising at 30mph ), 100% ( usually around 40mph ), and 120% ( usually 45-50mph ).

I love having that 3 speed switch because i can alternate between motorcycle like speeds ( when i need to - IE i am on a street with a 45mph speed limit and the bicycle lane is about to suddenly disappear, so i should go in the car lane ), and bike like speeds for all situations where i have a bike lane or a low speed limit ( rare ).
How do these 3 speed switches work? I see 3 wires... I guess Plus gnd an signal of some sort?

Would be easy enough to program a 3 stage power thing for FOC.

FOC is way better performance given silence and efficiency and throttle response and... but many people have driven themselves mad trying to"tune"various controllers compared to swapping the wires on the hall sensors until it suddenly goes.
 
mxlemming said:
How do these 3 speed switches work? I see 3 wires... I guess Plus gnd an signal of some sort?
All the ones I've seen use two inputs (with 5v pullups internal to the controller) and a ground. No grounded signal means setting 2, grounding either of the others means that setting. What the settings themselves affect depend on the controller (speed, current, trhottle percentage, etc). Some programmable, some not.

The controllers I use now don't support such a switch. I presently use the Cycle Analyst v3 with a 3-position switch for a speed limiter (but it could be set for other things), with 5mph 10mph and 20mph. I may repurpose it for a different parameter in the CA at some point, as I almost never switch those from the 20mph limit anymore, as it is so easy to control the speed of the trike by the speed of my pedalling (cadence) via the cadence PAS sensor on the CA.
 
Various threads here about three speed switches in various circumstances/systems
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=%22speed+switch%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search



This thread for VESC shows it's something some do want there
https://vesc-project.com/node/3155
with this post
https://vesc-project.com/comment/8326#comment-8326
using a switch to control the amount of throttle input for effectively the same thing, more or less. But no sign I can find that anyone has yet implemented the functionality directly in VESC code/hardware.

This post
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=71942&p=1483860&hilit=speed+switch#p1483860
says you can order a Kelly "pseudo FOC" controller with a three speed switch option but doesnt' specify which one.
 
amberwolf said:
mxlemming said:
How do these 3 speed switches work? I see 3 wires... I guess Plus gnd an signal of some sort?
All the ones I've seen use two inputs (with 5v pullups internal to the controller) and a ground. No grounded signal means setting 2, grounding either of the others means that setting. What the settings themselves affect depend on the controller (speed, current, trhottle percentage, etc). Some programmable, some not.

The controllers I use now don't support such a switch. I presently use the Cycle Analyst v3 with a 3-position switch for a speed limiter (but it could be set for other things), with 5mph 10mph and 20mph. I may repurpose it for a different parameter in the CA at some point, as I almost never switch those from the 20mph limit anymore, as it is so easy to control the speed of the trike by the speed of my pedalling (cadence) via the cadence PAS sensor on the CA.

Thanks, very nice summary. Should have used this forum rather than duck duck go search.
I'll pop it on my controller to do list.
 
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