2WD Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Jul 31 2010 9:47pm

I'm surprised to make *any* lists. :)

@ianmcnally: well, I think many people could do it, with proper motivation. Naeem (numberonebikeslover) has done more with even less than I have. ;)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Aug 20 2010 4:07pm

Thud's jackshaft arrived today:
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Now I just have to fabricate something for the right end of it to hold the chainrings for the regular drivetrain. That shouldnt' take a lot of work; I've got a few bits and pieces that might make a good start.

The threaded aluminum piece is designed to hold two freewheels--one for the motor and one for the cranks. Then I can fix alignment issues just by putting fewer or more spacers between the left end of the unit and the left freewheel, and/or between the two freewheels. I'll likely use plastic spacers so that I can cut them out to loosen the freewheels for realignment or replacement, etc., otherwise I probably won't have a way to remove them once they get tightened by the motor. :lol:

It has two 1/4"-20 set screw holes in the left end to clamp it to the shaft (I just have to dimple the shaft for them once I know where along the shaft it needs to sit). I might put a keyway in there, too, but I'll try out the set screws alone first.

The shaft itself goes in place of a normal square-taper BB crankshaft, so I can use the bearings and cups from the existing one.

Maybe now I won't have so many drivetrain problems with CB2 and can actually keep it on the road. :)

If I wind up having to retire CB2, I'll probably end up using this on the other cargo bike that's in process, or on a descendant of that one and what I learn from CB2 with it.


Now I need to go pack up this card reader so Thud doesn't have to fight his camera calbe anymore:
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by Thud » Aug 20 2010 4:37pm

Amberwolf,
Thanks for the card reader, & I really hope the shaft works out for you. I am a little embarrassed it took me so long to get by the post office....good luck & I am looking foward to seeing the CB2 back in action soon. I loves me some bartering! T
get some......

All information & advice provided by Thud are "Open Source" & free for personal use & distribution under the following agreement linked below.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Aug 22 2010 2:41pm

I didn't get the reader sent off yesterday like I meant to; probably Mon before work or Tue after work.

I'm sure the shaft will work once I get the other bits made for the right-end chainrings, and find some freewheels to use on the left side, and make whatever chainring adapters are necessary for those to get the right ratios to pedals and motor.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Aug 25 2010 8:18pm

After a lot of stuff getting in the way, I got it mailed this evening. Probably be a week if it's like most mail.

Have also had no time to do anything with the jackshaft. :(

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by texaspyro » Aug 25 2010 9:50pm

Hopefully they aren't going to/from Russia. I bought some tunnel diodes from a guy in Russia last June. Shipped registered air mail. Just got here today...

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Aug 26 2010 1:44am

Sounds like my check from Google...was supposed to be sent in July, but I havent' seen a trace of it yet. I do get their Adsense promo mailers, so they do have my address right.... :?

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 10 2010 1:36am

The google check arrived, finally. :) So I used a little of it to buy some used parts for CB2's descendant:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 15#p321415

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 15 2010 1:39am

Since I have not had time (or the proper inspiration, apparently) to work out the repairs needed to get all the regular drivetrain working on CB2, and I screwed up my 9C on DGA:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 66#p322066
and the Fusin can't currently be used properly in it's original rim (because I bent that rim a while back), and I haven't quite got the right stuff to stick it in a 26" rim,
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 98#p322998
I'm going to try to stick it into a 24" rim and use it as a front-wheel drive to just get CB2 back on the road, so that I have *something* motor-assisted to get me around at least for work.

Plus I like CB2 much better for the comfort level than any other bike I have. :)

I didn't want to use a hub motor on it, but at the moment it looks like the most reliable way to do it.

I may not use the FUsin to do it in the end, but might use the 9C/GM from Icecube57, if I can fix whatever is wrong with it and/or my other non-Fusin controllers. However, I'm going to first lace the Fusin up in a 24" rim if I can make the spokes fit, just so I can at least use *something* on it to get it going.

Also, I will then have a backup motor on CB2 even when I have the other drivetrain working again, so when I re-break it experimenting I can still ride home. :lol:

I'll also be able to use it on CB2's descendant for the same purpose, if I decide to use a 24" wheel on that one.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 16 2010 12:24am

(copied from the TVE thread)
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 15#p323315

For the moment, I wish to see if the Fusin will actually move CrazyBike2, so I took apart my attempt at lacing a QR front disc-brake hub into CB2's old 24" steel front rim (whcih failed as the spokes I tried are about 1 or 2mm too short for that in one lacing method, and several mm too long in another), and laced the Fusin into it instead, using some 14g spokes from Ianmcnally.

It almost worked. The spokes are not so long as to be unable to tension (they do that fine) but they poke out about 2mm out of the end of the nipples inside the rim, once I have it tensioned sufficiently to be musical. :(
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I can probably fix that using washers under the spoke heads inside the rim, if I can find 36 or 72 of the same washer, that are small enough OD not to cause problems with the rim but large enough ID to *just* accommodate the nipple's spoke end.

It is a cheap steel rim, but it isn't bent yet, after having been on CB2 for a while (in use before I had the drivetrain problems). :)
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I spun it up in the fork with the Fusin controller to verify it works before going any further with truing or looking for washers, and it definitely works but it also definitely needs truing. :) Can't tell in the pics, but can definitely see in motion. I didnt' do a video of it.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 16 2010 6:07pm

I trued up the wheel, trying out an idea I got while trying to get a ziptie that I wanted to leave untrimmed on something to stop "wilting" down to get in the way. I took a shortened ziptie cut off something previously and wrapped it onto the brake stud of the fork, so that it's tip just barely sits on the inside corner of the rim:
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As I turn the wheel to check trueness, it will move up and down for any out-of-roundness, and I can see the distance from it's end to the braking surface of the rim edge change for side-to-side trueness.
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So without setting up multiple things to verify each one, and keep adjusting them as I true it, I can *see* the trueness by any wiggle of the ziptie. If it doesn't move as I spin the wheel, it's true enough to not worry about. :)

Plucked spokes and they all sound nice and musical, of varying tones. Someday I'm going to see about making a musical instrument out of a rim, with various gauges of spokes tuned to different notes. :) Can't be any wierder than some of the electronic instruments I've got sounds for/from, in my ASR88 and various VST instruments for SONAR. :lol:


I didn't find enough washers yet to fix the spoke protrusion problem, so I just used a couple of layers of electrical tape and then 3 rubber rim bands from other tires, just in case. :) Installed the old CrazyBike2 front tire and tube (including slime protection strip/etc.), and aired it up. Seems ok so far. Bounced the wheel a few times, squeezed the spokes in pairs fairly hard, and it didn't go out of true yet. Have to ride it to see how it holds up.


I put the wheel on CB2, and discovered that the cheap steel shock fork on it is slightly wider at the bottom than DayGlo Avenger's, so when tightened down it rubs on the side case of the Fusin. At this moment, I'm filing down a thin washer to use as a spacer (had to take a break from the filing as my hands are stiff). Only happens on the right side for some reason I can't see, so I only have to make one spacer.


When I get done with that, I'll need to take all the SLA and powerchair motor stuff off of CB2, wire up the controller, stick the thumb throttle on the bars, and go test it. Probably will just hose-clamp the 36V 9Ah NiMH pack from TVE on there for now, and if it works well enough, work out the TS 32V pack stuff for longer range/more power, and/or figure out if the Fusin can handle 48V (it's labelled as 36V), to get more speed.

I expect the Fusin will be significantly slower on the 24" wheel vs the 26", but at least it will help me get around.

There are a number of other things needed to put CB2 back into working condition:

--make a pedal chainline (has none right now)

--setup a 12V power system for the turn signals

--hook the CFL headlight/taillight system up to the NiMH



Plus I also have to go back and make DGA work again, hopefully with the 9C and Lyen controller.


If I can ever get back to it, I also have an infineon from Methods to repair, that I already fixed some FETs in and had working for a short time, but think I blew more FETs somehow. (probably via a poor phase connection, as it was on the "bench" and using just the Fusin, back before I had the 9C.

Then perhaps I can get more ambitious, and see if I can make that 9C/GM lace up into a 24" wheel for CB2, plus that controller, at 72V of NiMH. See how much rubber I can remove from the tire in 10 seconds. :lol:

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 16 2010 11:12pm

The thin washer/spacer worked:
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Got the Fusin setup, just quickly ziptied the controller and wiring down, hose-clamped the 36V 9Ah NiMH pack down in place of the front-bottom SLA,
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and took it out for a quick spin around the block.
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The throttle was easier than I thought--I just slid it over the bar between the handle grip and the brake/controls mount,
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and set it so the thumb tab approximates the same way I used the lever throttle you see next to it (which is a pot throttle for the Curtis and 2QD).
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It did work, though I was a little afraid of stripping the gears in medium or high from a stop, so I only ran it in low until I got up to speed, then switched up. It was enough fun that I rode till the controller cut out once on high while accelerating before I rode it back and frantically dug thru my junk for pedals and a chain that I could fit on it without having to use tension rollers or guides, if possible.

The dogs didn't much like my sudden inspired obsession with the bike, and felt ignored:
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Luckily enough, I had some Sugino 175mm cranks on an abandoned Specialized Crossroads with a cracked seatstay (near the seattube), and a chain that was *just* long enough off a very long custom bike someone had (hurriedly, by the look of it, out of at least two bikes) built for a beer-sponsored parade of some sort, that a friend of mine ended up with most of, and gave me the remains after he got done with it.

Even more luckily, the chain just barely clears everything on the bike, when I install the cranks in their normal positions with chainring crank on the right, as long as I leave the chain on the largest chainring.
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It *might* also clear on the middle ring, but I doubt it. Definitely not on the granny ring. :) It'd cut my battery up, among other things. So no front-ring shifting allowed. Not going to put a derailer up there, either.

THe rear derailer works, though it has trouble with the lowest gear because the chain isn't really long enough.
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For now I'm leaving it alone as the chain is already long and heavy, and I'd rather have it tight like this than risk constant derailment due to bumps. It will probably come off anyway, on bigger bumps. :(


I don't like that the cranks are so long, because I'll probably have heelstrike on the ground in turns (even before the pods scrape), which I never had a problem with using the 150mm cranks (but the smaller cranks don't have a ring big enough to clear stuff, and they aren't wide enough to clear all the way back without the jackshaft setup I'd had before).

As soon as I was finished installing the chain, I took it out for another spin, as the sun was setting. Ok, now THIS is even more fun, because I can help it go faster a little bit (not really geared right to go really fast on pedals, especially with the long cranks forcing my legs to have to go farther around to "spin" the cranks at high speeds).

I ended up riding around until it was just about dark, and I had run the battery down to controller cutoff, so that I had to pedal a lot and just use the assist in low with only partial throttle. Turns out that between the different gearing it has, the longer cranks, and the lack of the heavy SLA and powerchair motor, it is a lot easier to pedal it, at least on the flats, although I still can't start from a stop without help or severe knee pain (which is sometimes bad enough to keep me from actually starting).

I totally forgot how much fun CB2 is to ride. It has been nearly a year, and I REALLY REALLY should have done this a long time ago!

The things that put me off were:
--I didn't want to "cheat" and use a hubmotor, rather than my own custom drivetrain.
--I didnt' want to take the Fusin out of a perfectly good 26" wheel on DGA, to stick it in a 24" for CB2.
--After I corrected the "perfectly good" part by bending the rim, I still didn't want to "cheat" and still wanted to fix the original drivetrain (still do), and since the rim did still work well enough to ride (just without front brakes), I still didnt' want to take the wheel apart.

Now I wish I had done it when I got the Fusin. :)


Still lots of work to do to make it a road bike again, especially the lighting system. I gotta check the Ford LTD's headlights and see how much power they draw. If it's low enough I can run one off the DC-DC inverter currently on DayGlo Avenger (but I do not want to take DGA's pieces off), or a small SLA or NiMH pack. Then build a mount for it, probably on the bars, and leave the CFL light up on the fork. Wire up the 12V lighting system again, etc.


Too bad I don't have another headlight fairing/housing I could use, to stick on the bars like I did on DGA. I don't want to move it over, though, because I like it on DGA. I'm sure I can figure something out, though. I sure have enough stuff to do it with. :)


I am thinking I might put that other triangular motorcycle taillight on, in addition to the CFL unit, and parallel it's brake light with the brakelight bar I also have. Someday I also need to make a braking-blinky that strobes the brake light when I first engage them, then goes on steady.


Hmm. I also just remembered that I pilfered the turn signal flasher from CB2 for DGA's signals. So I also have to come up with a turn signal flasher. I think I have an electronic one from a truck or car around someplace, that I can modify for lower-current use. Otherwise I can build one from a timer and a big transistor, like I did for DGA's original lighting with the LEDs (though it was a lot lower power).


Maybe I'll even paint CB2, though that's unlikely since I am still not done with DGA's repainting, and I need the paint for that first.


If the battery weren't still charging, I'd probably be out there riding again instead of typing this up. :D
Last edited by amberwolf on Oct 18 2010 11:44pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 17 2010 3:51am

Fixed the CFL lighting (head and tail), is now hooked up to the NiMH via the breaker switch, just as it used to be with the SLA. Oddly enough, there is almost as much light from the CFL, maybe more, than the scooter headlight on DGA, but it is not thrown as far as it is a wider scatter, even with the HID lens setup to help focus some of it. Tail is brighter than the LED motorcycle light (except for when in brake mode, then they're about the same).

Still figuring out what to do about the 12V end of things. Probably will just use the little 1.2Ah SLA for now, or a 7Ah if I can find one of mine that still works well enough (I think they're all too dead). Don't wanna put 10lbs+ of SLA on there with the 17Ah+ SLA just for turn signals and brake light. :)

Put the VeloAce PDA on there plus the WattsUp1 from AussieJester, and took it out for a number-collections test ride. Since it was about 1AM, there's not much traffic out there except for some police helicopters a mile or two away looking for someone.

I started to ride down the block, but the speed was so far off from what I expected and thought it was that I checked, and sure enough I totally forgot to change the wheel diameter in VeloAce. :roll:

After fixing that, I rode what turned out to be EXACTLY 1.000 miles as I pulled up to the house and turned it off. Strange.

I first rode out to the longer stretch of 29th Ave where there is no traffic at all, between two stop signs 1/4 mile apart. I reached a stable 18.6MPH with just the motor, starting out with a little pedalling with motor in low, then switching to medium and high after a few seconds. It took almost the whole way to get to speed, but it stopped increasing for the last 1/4 of the distance.

I turned around and rode back, this time also pedalling, and got to 21.6MPH and still rising when I had to brake for the stop sign, and I think I had one gear left to shift up to for pedalling (can't remember).

Then I switched back to low, and rode back home mostly on motor but a little pedalling, about like I would for fun rather than exercise. WIth no pedalling, all it gets is about 12MPH in low, and it sure takes a while to get there. :) Bike is just stable enough to feel faster than it is at that speed, until I start trying to turn. Then it's less stable. Needs to be faster for stability in turns, I guess--the balance of the bike is totally different now wihtout the weight of the SLA and motor in the center, and the extra weight (about the same as one of the SLA) of the motor in the front wheel.

Still same low-speed stability issues from a stop, making it virtually impossible for me to pedal it without a motor on it, as it hurts too much to try pedalling hard to get it going quickly enough to not just fall over. :( But once going past 8-9MPH, it's fine, just as before.

One-mile run numbers:
40.13Vrest
31.86Vm
21.8Wh
0.625Ah
606.4Wp
18.95Ap

11.7MPH Average
21.6MPH peak
5 minutes
1.000 miles

Sitting still the controller draws 0.4A, 1.5W, and the CFL lighting draws 0.35A, 13.5W.


I'd still be out there riding, but I am way too tired to deal with any possible traffic situation like some unlit car pulling out of a driveway or something, or some kid dressed in black riding or walking out from behind a car, or a party drunkard wobbling out into the street (there are usuallly a few of those wandering around this time of night on Saturday/sunday morning. )
21.6MPH

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 18 2010 10:37pm

I decided to go with a NiMH lighting pack, 10 cells for 12V even.
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Was going to use 12 cells for 14.4V, but I found that two of the ones on one end/corner of the pack are dented;
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I am guessing that since this was with a bunch of stuff my crazy sister moved randomly around the room a couple of weeks ago that she dropped it. :evil: They might be ok, but I want to test them separately before I use them on the bike and before I charge or discharge them at a higher current than a few hundred mA. The dents are small but that doesn't mean they're not significant. :(
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The pack used to be a 24V 13Ah from Deardancer, the first NiMH pack I got, which I bought used from him really cheap, and in the package of which he also sent along that 36V 9Ah pack, which I've used a lot. Because I lost the thermistor for this pack, and didn't want to disassemble the 36V pack to use it's thermistor, and I had no luck with the other thermistors I happened to have around, I never did end up using this pack on the bike yet. I charged it slowly with the little Sorensons and verified it worked, but that's all I ever got around to doing with it. Funny that I almost immediately used the one I got for free but the one I bought I didnt' until now. :lol:

Anyhow, since it was already partly separated into sections from failure of the old hotglue the factory used to assemble it, I broke it up into first the 12-cell and an 8-cell section,
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later taking off 2 cells from the 12 after finding the obvious dents. I added the thermistor from the Tenergy 12V charger Ianmcnally had sent in the last box of stuff, taping it down so it's in the midst of 8 of the 10 cells. Used a foot and a half of the phase wire (still in the bundle of phase/hall groups) that I had cut off the 9C's cable when troubleshooting and redoing it for DGA recently, to make the cable to plug into the 12V system. Added small 30A andersons to that so I could hook up to the Tenergy charger (that's what it already has on it), and hooked it up to charge.
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Took about 20-30 minutes for the charger's green light to come on. It never did get the pack warm, so I'm not sure that it really charges them up fully, given that it was on it's 1.2A setting (rather than the 800mA).

While waiting for it to charge, I put matching andersons on one end of a 2-foot piece of the same vacuum-cord I used on DGA's Fusin key/headlight unit back when I first set that up, and hardwired the other end into CB2's 12V system. That length of wire will let me put anything I hook up to it (DC-DC or battery pack) either in the frame with the rest of the pack/controller/etc., or in one of the rear cargo pods. For now, the pack goes in the right pod (with no lid), for convenience.
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Since I used the same andersons on the DC-DC on DGA, then if I should decide to I could move it to CB2 just like that, with the only thing needed being an inline-adapter to the large Multipole from the traction pack, or more likely another hardwired cable with powerpoles on it that runs from the controller-side of the breaker wiring.

I ended up not finding that electronic automotive signal flasher in my stuff, (although I found it tonite when taking some of this post's pics)
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and the only other one I found had a disintegrating plastic casing, and was a thermal flasher that is for at least 4 bulbs at a time (only flashes once every couple of seconds, if that, on 2).
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so I did end up pulling the original flasher off of DGA, despite not wanting to. :(


Rode around the block and tested it a bit and found that the Honda scooter brake handle switch on the left handle didnt' work very well; it sticks a lot, so it tends to either not come on at all or stays on when it shouldn't.
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Since that is the only one that has a parking brake clamp built in, I wanted to move the front brake to it (even though I'd rather have front brake on right side), since I have no rear brake yet. So I also had to move the switch over from the right side to the left while I was at it. Just so I don't get confused I removed the entire handle off teh right brake, so I'm not tempted to pull a brake that isnt' even there. :)

Even with the swap, it is still a bit iffy sometimes, and flickers a lot when first pulling the handle, makng very intermittent contact until the brake is most definitely stopping me (not just slowing me down). The switch only controls the brake light, not an ebrake, so it is not critical, but still annoying. I'd rather be able to "tap" the brake for a brake light, without actually causing any braking, but this switch doesn't operate correctly with that little travel. I may just have to DiY a solution (like a magnet, hall or reed, and a relay).

Then I also had a TERRIBLE time adjusting the brakes. See, they haven't quite worked right for a long time, and I either get brake rub all the time if I have them tight enough that I actually get REAL braking force, or if I adjust for no brake rub then I can't actually even get them tight enough at full lever travel to even keep me from *walking* the bike forwards. They grip GREAT when I move the bike backwards, but that's useless to me.

It did give me a clue, though, and I carefully checked and found that two problems were happening. The first is that the brake arms were actually wiggling on their pivots, and the second is that when they hit the end of their wiggle room, they actually twist a little, causing the brake pads to not seat on teh rim fully. It is not possible with these arms to adjust that toe angle, so I cannot fix that problem with them.
DSC03545.JPG
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I then took the very-well-operating brake arms off of the Schwinn Sierra, as a test to see if they'd be different. Oh, yes, they are. :)
DSC03547.JPG
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They were a huge PITA to adjust right, because they do have several types of adjustment, with essentially all three axes of alignment, but once adjusted they can be made to lockup the wheel without brake rub (well, a teeny tiny bit of rub, but not enough to matter, and oddly enough it shows me how well that truing method I used works. The rub is constant around teh rim, and there are NO spots where it is not the same, touching or not touching, etc. I'm sure a bit of riding on the wheel on these roads will fix that).

The one problem I did have is that the pads that came on the Shimano set was so thin, slick and hard that at one point I misadjusted them, and squeezed so hard during static testing on the brake handle that I popped one of the pads under the rim, and somehow bent up the pad holder.
DSC03546.JPG
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The slickness was going to make me change them, but this forced me to, so I put the pads that were on the bendytwisty arms onto these, and then I got a lot better braking action for all the same adjustments. :)

So now I think I can actually stop if I have to. :) I tested it a few times at the fastest speed I could reach then, about 21MPH, and it skids the bike just a little bit if I slam the brake on hard, which is kinda a teeny bit scary on that bike but nothing like locking up a front on an upright!

I've been pondering for a while taking two identical hubs I have from Karma, front with disc threads and rear with just freewheel threads, and combining them to make a single rear hub that I can put a disc on, and welding a caliper mount to the seatstay. As heavy as the rear of CB2 is, with me lower down back there and the front wheel so far out, rear braking should have more of an effect than rear brakes do on upright bikes. So maybe the disc will actually be helpful enough to be worth doing. :)


Other than the brake and brake light issues, the test rides shows it all works ok. Started it recharging everything, went to bed, and hoped it would all work out on today's commute to work.
DSC03551.JPG
DSC03551.JPG (73.22 KiB) Viewed 7135 times

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 18 2010 11:05pm

Work commute went flawlessly, although I have to say I got used to the easy speed of the 9C and no pedalling on DGA, :lol: so the little Fusin on the heavier CB2 requires lots of pedalling to even approach the speed and torque of the 9C on DGA. Especially since I have a much smaller battery on CB2, at only 36V 9Ah vs 48V 13Ah. While if I were to set the Fusin to High, I could more easily approach DGA's capabilities, I would drain the pack so fast that I would not make it back home from work wihtout constant cutouts from controller LVC. ;)

I figure my trip today I was pedalling about three or four times as much/hard as I would on DGA if I were trying to conserve power there for a longer run, but it is a lot easier to do this on CB2 because the seating position is very comfy. The only issue I have is that I need to move the seat forward about an inch and a half, probably because of the longer cranks, as I have trouble staying in the correct seat position while pedalling (didn't have that problem before with the shorter cranks).

Numbers from hot-off the charger run to work, then back home after 7.5 hours of sitting, total of 5.1 miles. Readings using WU1:

To work, 2.255 miles, 14.1MPH avg, 18.4MPH max, 9 minutes 35 seconds. Used Medium for the entire trip:
42.3V start
39.09Vrest
30.94Vmin
37.5Wh
(16.63Wh/mile)
1.051Ah
606.2Wp
17.89Ap

To home, 2.897 miles, 12.055MPH avg, 18.3MPH max, 14 minutes 20 seconds. Used Medium only for the short portions where I must be in traffic or crossing it, and Low for the rest:
40.01V start
38.69Vrest
30.82Vm
42.6Wh
(14.7Wh/mile)
1.22Ah
563Wp
17.85Ap


It's interesting to note that even though CB2 weighs significantly more than DGA, and I wasnt' going that much slower than I would have on DGA (probably about 2-3MPH), the Wh/mile figures are less than half for CB2 than DGA.
A lot of that is my pedalling input, I'm sure, because the DGA readings I'm thinking of are when I didn't pedal at all.
Some of it is wind resistance, since not only is CB2 lower, but I am semi-reclined instead of fully upright.
Some of it is that the Fusin is geared, so able to run closer to it's efficient zone more of the time, I suspect.
Some probably has to do with the way the Fusin controller does it's Lo-Med-Hi thing, which does not seem to be a straight current or speed limit, but some combination of both.
Some simply because I am running at a lower voltage (36V vs 48V).
Some because the Fusin is a lower-power motor than the 9C.

Now if I dig back in the DGA thread to when this same motor, wheel, and battery was on it, I find that somewhere around 9Wh/mile is what DGA got with this same motor.

Digging around a bit more, I find that the 9C with the same 36V 9Ah battery and with the 36V 13Ah battery got around 18Wh/mile, for not that much greater speeds (and with pedalling like i did with teh Fusin on DGA).

So the Fusin is definitely more efficient than the 9C, either because of hte internal planetary or because of the way it's controller works.


In other thoughts, I was considering a disc for the rear, but while digging for stuff and taking pics for the post above, I found and remembered that two of the 3speed hubs Spinningmagnets sent me, the ones by Sachs, also have a coaster-style drum brake in them.
DSC03553.JPG
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Now that made me ponder a bit. It's a little larger diameter flanges than the front disc hub I had tried to lace into a 24" wheel for CB2's front a while back. That means that I could use those spokes that were too short for the disc hub for it, most likely, if I can find another 24" rim to put it in (all I have left that's intact and not bent or rusted or junk is the one that is actually on CB2's rear wheel now, and since it'sa working wheel with cassette Id' like to leave it alone as a spare).

Then I'd have a rear brake, *and* get to test out if the 3-speed hubs really are enough gears for an assisted bike, or if I really need more than that. I know that with the original CB2 drivetrain thru the gears, I hardly ever used more than 2 or 3 gears, shifting thru most of the others so quick they might as well not have been there.

The other item in that pic is the clothesline pulley that I might have to use to tension the chain and guide it around some of the bottom frame if I use the hub, unless I just leave the derailer on there fixed into one position using the limit screws.

I think I ought to also put CB2's horn back on, taken off some time back for reasons I've forgotten.
DSC03554.JPG
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One thing that didn't go flawlessly was my integration into traffic; since CB2 is shorter and is not brightly painted, and only really gives the motorcycle impression at night (since I am having to pedal, in the daytime you can see that easily), several people kept going around me to the left WHILE I WAS TRYING TO MAKE A LEFT TURN FROM THE LEFT LANE.

That's just stupid, and makes no sense, since they weren't turning left, and in fact a few turned right just a couple hundred feet down the road in various places. This happened mostly around Metrocenter, especially as I was on 29th Ave exiting Metrocenter into the parking lot of the south end's shopping area. What I think happened there is that the others that passed me on the left (crossing over onto the wrong side of the road to do it!) were following one impatient moron.

That moron was well over a dozen car lengths behind me, and I was already about to enter the left turn lane. If he had continued at his normal speed, I would have already begun actually turning left from the left turn lane before he even began to pass me in his normal lane. Instead, he decided to speed up to around 60MPH (going well over twice as fast as any other traffic on the road, engine roaring very loudly), and then suddenly go LEFT to get around me, even though by the time he reached me I was completely in the left turn lane, and he had his entire normal lane to simply continue straight ahead. He had zero reason to do what he did, except to show off one reason for him to not have a license or be on the road aiming tons of steel at people.

If there had been any oncoming traffic in the other lane he crossed over into, it would have been a helluva mess, especially since several people followed right behind him, doing exactly the same thing he did, for even less reason than he had, AFAICT. Just following the leader, I guess. :roll: A city bus was not far behind them and was honking his big horns, probably trying to get them to stop?

I just had to sit there in the left turn lane waiting for the morons to stop passing me on the left on the wrong side of the road at freeway speeds. I forget how many, two or three others. By the time they passed, traffic was oncoming in the lanes I needed to cross, so I had to wait several minutes before it stopped and I could make my turn (I would actually have been nearly home by then if this had not happened).

It happened three more times with just a single car doing it elsewhere--once before entering metrocenter when i was trying to get to the left turn lane on Peoria, and was already mostly in the last lane on the left when the guy in the right hand lane (two over from me!) suddenly gunned it and went around left of me, forcing me back into the middle lane and missing the left turn I needed to make.

The second was on Dunlap, exactly the same way.

The third was on 29th ave again, south of metrocenter, nearly home, on the undivided/unmarked 29th ave; I was going to makea left turn at the 4-way stop at Butler and go to the thrift store, but this moron didnt' even slow down for the stop, but actually gunned it and sped up, and again went around me on the left, but this time I was actually already making my turn and he very nearly hit me--if I was not always watching in my rear view mirror, he would have, because I would not have known to hit my brakes just then. :(

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 20 2010 12:19am

Today's work commute was MUCH less stressful than yesterday's, although I woke up sick with somebody's cold (they can have it back!) so I felt pretty awful most of the day; got better towards the end of the day and right now I think I'm mostly ok.

Numbers for today include pedalling and medium motor setting all the way to work. Trip home I decided to just use the motor, on medium, with pedalling *only* when starting from a stop, simply because I'd like to not break the Fusin's gears and I'm kinda afraid I might.

To work:
43.2V hot off charger
39.49Vrest
31.37Vmin
41.3Wh
(18.25Wh/mile)
1.16Ah
615Wp
17.69Ap

13.439MPH avg
18.5MPH max
10min 3sec trip time
2.263 miles


Back home:
39.01Vstart
38.43Vrest
30.1Vmin
52.6Wh
(18.14Wh/mile)
1.562Ah
578Wp
18.46Ap

12.1MPH avg
16.5MPH max
14min 16sec trip time
2.9 miles.

So...it's nearly identical power usage, PLUS my pedal input, to get another maybe 2 miles an hour. I wonder what it would be if I had the cargo pods off, since they're not exactly aerodynamic. :lol:

For some less boring stuff, pictures:
DSC03563.JPG
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CB2 as it is right now.
Note the extension to the seat--I had forgotten that I never did put the headrest and stuff on here, meaning to do that forever and always forgetting or not having time, etc. Since I have no idea what I did with the stuff I had planned to make the headrest from, and I cant' even remember if I actually had all the parts, I just did a really quickie job of it using one of those bleacher chairs I picked up for CrazyBike2's descendant's seat:
DSC03225.JPG
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DSC03237.JPG
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I removed the bleacher-seat cushion by simply pulling it off the tubes it is slid onto, then hose-clamped the seat back from it to CB2's seat's vertical risers, just above where the green sling stops and the paracord web begins. I put it "upside down" with what would be the back of the seat facing forward, so that it's top tubing would become part of a headrest, and create a curve that I can place padding into to form for my neck support.

Then I slid the cushion into the strap that's part of the seat back, and folded it over to stuff back under the strap, so that I could use it as the main headrest portion without cutting anything. There is another long strap that is part of the seat back that secures the cushion to it and makes a carry-handle/shoulderstrap for the bleacher seat, and I used that to wrap around the folded cushion to keep it from unfolding during vibration/bumps/etc. and keep it in position as I lean back on it.
DSC03564.JPG
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The green thing is an Iams "blanket" given to me for answering a pop quiz question by the Proctor & Gamble rep that came in today. Works better than just the rolled up towel (the brown part) that I started out with this morning. :) All I did to hold it in place is run a couple of those velcro tie-down straps I've been using on The Velcro Eclipse and DayGlo Avenger around it and the seat. Works ok. Makes leaning back to recline much more comfortable. than before.

The bike from the back, to see that seat:
DSC03562.JPG
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You'll note that I also borrowed the sidepanel and lockable lid from DayGlo Avenger, until I have the chance to make new ones for CB2 for both sides. The right pod, with the helmet in it, has no lid yet.

I'll very likely be moving the whole taillight/signal cluster off the pods up to that white bar on the back of the seat; that's part of what I originally used it for. The main reason I think I moved them off of it was because I wanted to put cargo there, but I've never built a rack to go across it, and can't just lay stuff across the pods because the wheel sticks up over their tops. ;)

I would move the pods up to fix that, but doing so will mean that I can't open the lids on them, unless the lids open inward, rather than outward as the one I have does now.

The main reason the pod lid opens outward is that there is no lip on the pod top edge on the outside face, but there is on the other three. So the cabinet lock has nothing to latch on unless I bolt or rivet on an L-bracket there, which won't be as stiff and resistant to prying as the existing wrap-around lip of the pods themselves.

A secondary reason is that if it opens outward, I can use it to help contain cargo that doesnt' fit all the way into the pod, especially cargo that must go all the way across to the other one (but isnt' flat to intersect with the wheel). If it were inward-opening, I could not put fully-vertical cargo into it that sticks out very far from the pod top, since the lid couldn't open past about 60-70 degrees due to the seat back. Less if I move the pod up to clear the rear wheel, more like 40-50 degrees (making it tough to load/unload cargo, too).

One option is to make the side of the pod also open down and outward, instead of being fastened in place as it is now. But that would be significant work, as it is thin and flexible (unlike the pod itself) and would have to be braced for rigidity, as well as requiring at least two more cabinet locks (preferably all keyed alike) for it's corners. Or an even more complex solution, turning the side and top into a reverse-gull-wing, that lowers out and down as a unit.

None of that is something I'm going to experiment with soon, especially since i only have *one* cabinet lock that I can use--I have at least a dozen other nice ones off of IBM AT cases, but have no keys for them!

This is what the "dashboard" of CB2 looks like right now:
DSC03566.JPG
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The Veloace PDA is just held on with a ziptie, as it used to be (in fact it's the same ziptie, left in place from before I stopped working on CB2 earlier this year).

The Fusin 3-speed switch is tied down to the now-unused front derailer shifter, as I cant' put it on the bars without taking all the stuff off one end or the other, and I really don't want to do that till I'm sure I'm leaving it on here for a while. Since I plan to change it for a bigger hub motor or to get the drivetrain fixed, as soon as possible, I'm not going to bother mounting it "nicely". I dont' need to switch it often, so ti doesnt' have to be conveneintly located. :)


THe key is not used right now, as the FUsin doesnt' have a keyswithc intput, and I don't think this keyswitch is rated for the 20A or so that the Fusin might pull. Havne't located the box of relays and stuff that I might be able to use to have the keyswitch enable/disable.

The Epson-printer-paper-holder plastic still works well as a sunshade for the PDA, and a little bit of a windscreen for me.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 20 2010 3:29pm

It's raining today, and I'm aobut to leave for work, so it will be interesting to see how everything works when wet. I may have to leave the WU off, and the PDA.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 21 2010 12:59am

Didn't have to leave it off, as it only sprinkled during my actual trips, raining both before and after, though.

To work, pedalling a lot, fusin on medium:
42.6Vstart hot off charger
39.7vrest
30.81vmin
42.3Wh
(18.24Wh/mile)
1.187Ah
623Wp
18.2Ap

11.53MPH avg
18.4MPH max
11min 58sec
2.319miles


To home, no pedalling except for starts from stops, fusin on med.
37.94Vr
29.85Vmin
58Wh
(25Wh/mile)
1.705Ah
579Wp
18.22Ap

12.6mph avg
16.98mph max
13min 51sec
2.92miles

Cut out LVC many times in last 3/4 mile of trip home, probably becuase it was a lot colder tonite than usual (65F or so when I left, and the room I get to store the bike in at work was actually pretty cool today, unlike usual, so the battery chilled down some).

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by BikeFanatic » Oct 21 2010 1:19pm

Nice to see CB2 back on the road, I love that mad max look. Does the steering feel stable, you use some solid rod to attach the handle bar to the front headset? like Justin's across Canada bike?

Can you charge at work? I feel the NIMH performs best when topped off. or is it the charger situation.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 21 2010 7:54pm

Steering is very solid, using essentially the same method as Justin's, though I only do it on one side and mine is thicker (weedeater handle) and not made with "proper" pivoting joints (just skateboard bearings inside welded-closed eyehooks). It actually resembles the one from the no-weld recumbent trike topic recently started, more than most of the others I've seen. (part of which will be borrowed for the descendant version of CB2).

It's only stable above 8-9MPH, and really feels better the faster I go. It's best above 14-15MPH at a minimum, if I am reclining back in the chair, because of lack of pendulum effect at that point.


Some history on the steering:
http://electricle.blogspot.com/2009/01/ ... y-diy.html
Then it looked like this:
SteeringRodEnd.JPG
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before I welded, and had tried soldering it. Solder stuck, but wasn't strong enough and split, letting the bearing come out of the eyelet and the rod flop around. Bad for steering. :(
At the time this is how it looked mounted at the back:
SteeringRodRearA.JPG
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and the front:
SteeringRodFrontA.JPG
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SteeringRodFrontB.JPG
SteeringRodFrontB.JPG (18.57 KiB) Viewed 7102 times
I went thru a couple of steering stem changes, to fix proportions between steering input and output, experimenting to find the best way of doing it (other than 1:1).
LeftSteeringAngleLimiterTop-AtLimit.JPG
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Later it was changed more, to this, which it remains the same even now:
http://electricle.blogspot.com/2009/04/ ... s-and.html
ClampingRetainingWasher.JPG
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WeldedRetainingWasher.JPG
WeldedRetainingWasher.JPG (86.43 KiB) Viewed 7285 times
Skateboard.JPG
Skateboard.JPG (102.87 KiB) Viewed 7277 times
SkateboardWheelRemoveBearingAndOldBearings.JPG
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SkateboardWheelBearingAndPivotBolt.JPG
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10NewSteeringHeadRearJointSIDE.JPG
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11NewSteeringHeadSIDE.JPG
11NewSteeringHeadSIDE.JPG (39.53 KiB) Viewed 7277 times
12NewSteeringHeadTOP.JPG
12NewSteeringHeadTOP.JPG (43.58 KiB) Viewed 7285 times
13NewSteeringHeadLeftTurnTOP.JPG
13NewSteeringHeadLeftTurnTOP.JPG (54.98 KiB) Viewed 7102 times
14NewSteeringHeadRightTurnTOP.JPG
14NewSteeringHeadRightTurnTOP.JPG (59.93 KiB) Viewed 7102 times
I *can* charge at work, but usually don't, as I have to use an extension cord across the room from where the bike can be parked. That's a hazard asking for an accident because people have to go thru there constantly, and move loaded product carts and dollys thru there too.

If I could park the bike against the same wall as the outlet, it'd be great, but there is no place to do that. Used to be but it was rearranged a couple of years ago and now the outlet is nearly inaccessible.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 23 2010 3:32am

(Partly copied from here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 80#p325680 )

Ok, I fixed the problem with the 9C / Lyen 6FET on DGA. Basically I swapped the blue and green halls somehow, inside the motor.

I only figured it out after actually going thru the combination chart, then when I hit the working one, it was correct *except* that the blue and green halls were swapped.

Anyhow, I also retested it with the 36V EVAssemble controller, and verified it works there, too. I don't know why I could not get it to work with any combination on that one before; I must have had some other connection problem at the moment I tried the right combo (or during all testing).

In addition, I've now tested it ok with a Methods 100V 18FET that I just fixed tonight (3 more bad FETs, blown when I was experimenting with ti after my first FET replacement on it, just figuring out the combination of wires for the Fusin on it, months ago).

I also tested it ok with a now-fixed 12-FET Infineon from Ianmcnally, which had had melted shunts (!!!!) and blown main powerfilter caps, from having been connected to power in reverse, I think.

I decided I would put the 6-pin JST(?) style connector on everything for halls, once I find enough of them to do this. Right now only the MEthods 18FET and the generic 12FET (both infineons) have them, along with the 9C and the 9C/GM1000W combo motors. Gotta find more of them in my junk, if there are any.

I'm doing the same thing with the phase wires, which will for now use Anderson PP45 simply because they're already on the Methods 18FET, the 9C/GM1000W, and the 12FET from Ianmcnally, and because I have a few I can use for the other side of those connections. I dont' have any extra bullet connectors, just a few on various dead controllers, and they are all the not-so-great kind of bullets, more like the automotive wiring-harness type. The color of the Anderson shells will match whatever the controller end is, for that mtoro's correct combination, so I can match the Anderson color and ignore the wire color, between any motor and any controller.

The idea will be to be able to swap out motors and controllers effortlessly, wherever possible, to get things going again as fast as possible, no messing around with figuring out combinations. :)


So now in theory I have three "spare" controllers, though really only two--the Methods 18FET is going to go on CrazyBike2, driving the Icecube57 9C/GM1000W combo motor, once I figure out a safe way to lace it up in a crappy Huffy-bike steel 24" rim with the spokes I already have from some other wheel.

I was going to try it with some spokes from Ianmcnally (identical to the ones used to lace the Fusin in it's 24" wheel), but they are so long that I'm afraid the angles they'd be at would break the spokes at the nipples, or damage the nipples in the rim or the nipple seats of the rim itself. I'd need to drill out the nipple holes in the rim for an elliptical cross-section sufficent to fully lay the nipple at the same angle as the spoke. Right now, there would be a 30-degree diference , which I'm sure is too much to ask of it, under the loads of motoring and regen braking.

Then I need to go strip the braided shield off the outside of some old coax cable to make myself the jumpers between 10 TS60Ah cells to power it with. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 23 2010 11:08am

AW, I always learn new things whenever I read your posts. Its always a lot of fun when I find something that can be re-purposed...and it ends up working well.

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 23 2010 2:21pm

...As opposed to the times I just destroy things by not having thought that far ahead. :lol: :oops:

Well, I'm still digging thru my wheel stuff to see if I have shorter spokes to lace up this wheel (just taking a sit-down break for a few minutes). If I don't find any before I leave for lunch with a friend, I'm going to go ahead and lace it up with those too-long spokes, but I am tempted to use the dremel or a round-file to angle the nipple holes in the rim so it's not quite so bad.

I suspect that's a really bad idea, though, and that finding washers to stick on the nipples before they go thru the holes would be a better idea, filing the washers instead. Even so, I'd probably *still* have to file the rim holes a little, to make them more elliptical, or the 14G nipples wont' even be able to go thru at an angle at all. (the holes are for 15G, and *those* might be able to sit at a good enough angle).

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 23 2010 9:20pm

Hmpf. Somehow I didnt' even notice this until I was about to lace it up, but the stupid rim is only 28-hole, so I can't lace it up with this motor. :( Well, I *could*, but it probably would not handle the stresses very well, since I'd only be using 28 of 36 spokes the motor was made to use. ;)

So I dug thru every wheel and rim I have, and I found that I only even *have* three 24" rims with 36 holes, and two of them are already *on* CrazyBike2. :( The third is the aluminum rim I dented in on a pothole over a year ago, so it kinda has a flat spot on the rim. Without a tire on it it wouldn't even roll properly. :roll:
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Teh only ohters I ahve are all 28-hole, including the last previous rear wheel from CrazyBike2 that was damaged by the 3500W+ chain mishap. I don't trust myself to drill them out to 36 yet, though I'll try that if I get desperate enough. First I'll see if the thrift stores or yard sales have any bikes with the right rims that are also worth buying for other stuff that's on them. Dumb thing is that I was at Build-A-Bike today while with my friend, looking thru their wheels for short-spoked ones, and they had a few 24"ers that probably were 36-hole from what I recall, but I did not know I needed to get one then, and by the time I found out, they were already closed and aren't open tomorrow. Then I have to work the hours they're open until Thursday, when I don't go in until 1pm.

So...I'm gonna lace it up in that flat-spot rim, and at least test the theory out of whether it will work on CB2 in a 24" wheel, and what speeds I can get out of it at various voltages up to 72V with the Methods 100V 18FET.

Now...what spokes do I use? As I said, the new ones I have are too long:
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I did find a few shorter-spoked wheels than what I have, but of course being so small, none of them has enough spokes by itself to lace it up. Most are 28-spoke or less.
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Some are 32,
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some are only 16!
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Fortunately there is a group of three 12" wheels from little-kids' bikes that are all the same,
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and have enough total spokes to lace it up, and still have some spares when I break some. Of course they're only 15g spokes, but they should at least last long enough to test the motor/controller out.

If it all works, then if I have time I'll go find a wheel the right size and type. The spokes will just have to do, since I checked a couple of bike places today, and they want from $1.20 to $1.50 each to cut *used* spokes down to a custom size and thread them! If the kids' bikes' spokes don't work then I'll just have to modify the rim's nipple holes to be elliptical and allow the much longer but thicker (14G?) new spokes I've got to be used.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Oct 24 2010 2:49pm

Ok, that was a fail. If the problems below hadn't come up while truing it, it could have been an EPIC fail on the road. :roll:
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As it turns out, the holes in the 9C/GM's spoke flanges are too large for regular 15G spoke heads--they go right thru. Ok, so spoke washers might help with that, so I pulled some off the used spokes that Ianmcnally had sent along with the new ones, and they appeared to work fine...
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until I got to the last stages of tensioning, before I even really got to truing the rim.
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As they were getting tight, the washers just crumpled, and some of the spokes' J-bends became more like a Y minus one of the upper arms. :( It's not the washers' fault, since they weren't meant for this purpose, and are only brass.
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Need steel ones, but none of the ones I have found so far in my stuff are small enough inside hole to work. I do have a lot of lockwashers from various connector hardware that would be perfect, if they weren't split-ring type (which will just spread apart under the load, exactly like the brass washers did after they split/crumpled). Unfortunately the connectors didnt' include flat washers of the same size. I'll probably look more later because I am sure I have some, but probalby not 36 of them, so I think right now it's a wash for lacing this up in this rim with the small spokes.
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I think I am better off trying to lace it up with the big spokes at the horrific rim angle, with slightly elliptical holes. I'm just afraid that if I do that I'll be unable to try smaller ones in the rim later, unless I can find washers that will fit the nipple heads to spread the load across more rim inside surface.
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