How much of the time are ebikes run at full throttle?

How much of the time are ebikes run at full throttle?

It's a serious question, not asked frivolously.

Every data sheet I've seen, lists the power, amps, torque, RPM, efficiency etc. only with full throttle applied. And they only list data at the motor's highest RPM range, usually 300-400 RPM or more for direct-drive hubmotors.

I've only ridden an ebike for a few minutes at a dealer here in San Diego, so I have little real experience as a commuter or whatever. My own ebike project is stalled, awaiting delivery of the 48V 20Ah battery from China.

Those of you who commute regularly on your ebikes, once you get started, do you just hold the throttle wide open (mostly on flat ground) and let the ebike run at its max speed? Or do you back off on the throttle a little, and run at maybe 20mph even though your ebike can do 30 on flat ground?

For people who back off a little, the motor's performance at full throttle might not be as important as its performance at part throttle. How efficient is it at, say, 20mph at part throttle? If that's where you do most of your riding, that becomes the most important question, doesn't it?

Do most ebikes in real usage, do most of their running at full throttle? Or at part throttle?

I ride full throttle 95% of the time, but it depends on your setup and where you are riding.

I have a crystalyte 408 at 48v, so full throttle for me is 40km/hr on the flat. Which I find a great commute speed. I will only go easy when traffic is slow, things get a bit tight, windy or excessively rough terrain.

It would be a much different story with a high power setup.

Adrian

My 36v setup is not all that fast, 20-25 mph depending on the motor I'm using. So yeah, full throttle just about 99% of the time. When I want to ride over 20 miles range, then I'll slow down. Slowing down may put the motor in a less efficient part of the curve, but the reduction in wind resistance results in a gain that blows away any losses from running the motor slower. This applies to flat ground or rollling hills, long long hills are a different story.

I have a high enough gear on my commuter to pedal to about 30 mph. The motor is most efficient at any chosen speed if you set the throttle, and then pedal to about 2 mph faster. That takes the load off the motor, and lowers the amps the motor draws. This eases the strain on both battery and controller.

I think if you practice this pedal a bit faster method, the motor is pretty efficient at any speed. But some speeds with no pedaling would be less efficient, especially slow speeds with a lot of load, like slowly climbing a hill. As long as you keep the load on the motor as low as possible, you make the riding as efficient as possible. I think a bit of brisk pedaling can be more effective than a lot of angst aobut having a particular motor. Choosing special motor winds has it's place, but for general street riding you can just ride the usual kit motor in a manner that boosts the motors efficiency.

Little-Acorn said:

How much of the time are ebikes run at full throttle?

It's a serious question, not asked frivolously.

Every data sheet I've seen, lists the power, amps, torque, RPM, efficiency etc. only with full throttle applied. And they only list data at the motor's highest RPM range, usually 300-400 RPM or more for direct-drive hubmotors.

I've only ridden an ebike for a few minutes at a dealer here in San Diego, so I have little real experience as a commuter or whatever. My own ebike project is stalled, awaiting delivery of the 48V 20Ah battery from China.

Those of you who commute regularly on your ebikes, once you get started, do you just hold the throttle wide open (mostly on flat ground) and let the ebike run at its max speed? Or do you back off on the throttle a little, and run at maybe 20mph even though your ebike can do 30 on flat ground?

For people who back off a little, the motor's performance at full throttle might not be as important as its performance at part throttle. How efficient is it at, say, 20mph at part throttle? If that's where you do most of your riding, that becomes the most important question, doesn't it?

Do most ebikes in real usage, do most of their running at full throttle? Or at part throttle?

Click to expand...

It depends on the person's taste, but I usually ride full throttle at 26-30 mph about 90% of the time. The only time I go non-full throttle is if I'm interacting with other vehicles on the road or I'm coming to an unregulated intersection where I don't have sufficient viewing clearance (which is about 95% of the time). Other people are fine with 20 mph being legally conscientious or wanting to simply supplement their regular biking when going over hills.

Riding at 20 mph at part throttle will be more efficient (You'll have greater range) then will be riding 30 mph at full throttle.

I don't use full throttle much, perhaps 5-20% of the time, but it varies depending on the length of the ride and what I'm trying to get out of it. Of course I ride for fitness/recreation so I use the motor for assist and average 2-3 mph faster than I could ride the bike without the motor. I reserve full throttle for a few blasts along the way and usually for a good part of the last few miles of a ride. I don't even use full throttle up most hills because that doesn't get me up the hill any faster. With a smaller battery or if I'm riding for longer range I'll use an even lighter touch on the throttle and ride closer to my average unassisted speed. Also if I used full power all of the time I'd burn-up my overvolted small geared motors. Where I'm riding also affects my speed like when I'm on a bike path I'll be going slower than on a higher speed limit wide open straight road. Basically I ride my E-bike as I would a regular bike just faster as if I was 25 years younger and 25 lbs lighter

-R

I'm running a 408 at 60V, may be moving up the voltage. And I would run full throttle only 60-70% of the time.

I am overvolting and the motor doesn't like being run at high voltages for extended periods of time.

For me it just depends on how fast i wanna go. I chose the speed limit i want to go. Lets say 20 mph in "legal mode" which limits the controller to 40% full throttle. I set my switch to 1 so that when I apply full throttle Ill be limited to 20 mph. Most of the time this consumes about 500-600w. But alot of the time Im on level ground on a paved trail and all I want to do is reduce the drag of the motor so i supply maybe 1/4 throttle to get it down to 100-200w and it makes you feel bionic at a normal pedaling speed. Other times I use speed mode 2 which limits speed around 25-33 mph or 60% of full throttle. If im trying to get some where quick but not trying to draw to much attention and use to much power. I will go WOT in this mode. You feel it regulating the throttle as it modifys the duty cycle to not exceed that speed. It uses 800-1200w in my case. The speed to power ratio is almost perfect but it can get away from you on a full charge. Its better than regulating the throttle with no limit what so ever. If i go 100% or use the advanced timing using the 120% and go WOT all i can do is hold on and enjoy the ride while i can. Alot of power and torque but sucks juice like no tommorrow. I only switch to this mode when i need the acceleration burst or need to climb a big hill with no assistance. On open stretches of road the range suffers to 6-8 miles at 40+mph. I dont stay in that mode often unless im playing around. Thats how I ride my bike.

broloch said:

I'm running a 408 at 60V, may be moving up the voltage. And I would run full throttle only 60-70% of the time.

I am overvolting and the motor doesn't like being run at high voltages for extended periods of time.

Click to expand...

Best thing you can do is start looking into doing the air cooling mods. It works for me and I have alot less mass on my motor than the 408.

Oh yeah one more thing, note that “full throttle” does not necessarily mean “full power”. The motor can easily reach full power at part throttle up a hill and can be doing nothing down a hill even with the throttle at full.

-R

icecube57 said:

broloch said:

I'm running a 408 at 60V, may be moving up the voltage. And I would run full throttle only 60-70% of the time.

I am overvolting and the motor doesn't like being run at high voltages for extended periods of time.

Click to expand...

Best thing you can do is start looking into doing the air cooling mods. It works for me and I have alot less mass on my motor than the 408.

Click to expand...

Which mod are you referring? Do you have a link to the thread? Is it steveo's thread?

there so much math to do , depend on what are your set up , weight ,length ,wind,friction ,tire size , amphour ,
the thing you need to know its I much watthour your pack can deliver so after that you have a good idea the distance you can do with your bike

the thing I love to do with my 72volt setup its too go for a ride and pedal at low speed like 40 kph with my rear 11 tooth sprocket its just good and so i can do some exercise and when I came back home all the watt I have save I use it to have some speed rush

so its fun to have power under the hood and keep it until you need it like following the car in the trafic !

Mine is specifically set up so that I run in 50-60% throttle most of the time, and have the rest of it available for "boost", such as if I have to suddenly accelerate for any reason.

Staying around half speed theoretically balances the load between the two halves of the power bridge. If I were to use a contactor that actually bypasses the entire power section when at 100% throttle, that would make all the FET losses and heating/wear irrelevant at 100%, but since I don't then it is a consideration (albeit not that important).

However, it is more important that I be able to really accelerate even from my cruising speed should something in traffic come up that would be better avoided by speeding up than slamming on the brakes (usually this happens at least once per trip, so two or more times a day). Sometimes just a little speeding up will do it, and sometimes a lot.

Most of the time it is because I am on a no-stops-road with side streets that all have to stop for traffic on the road I'm on, but with too little visibility around those streets until I'm on top of them. Then I see someone who is obviously going to run their stop sign but I am already in the intersection or about to be, and there's no way at all I could possibly stop before they would hit me--but speeding up I can get past them safely.

Since I have the motor running thru the normal bike transmission, I have all the same gears for pedalling and motor, and can shift up, but it takes more time for the system to shift up than it does to just gun the throttle and go, plus I want to have the boost available even in the highest gear.

Because of my knees, I can't pedal hard enough fast enough to really add that much to the acceleration, so it's important for the motor to be able to do it for me.

Now I just have to get the bike itself to a point where the motor isn't more powerful than the bike's structure and drivetrain.

For my setup, the vast majority of time I accelerate to full throttle gradually over several seconds then leave it there until I need to slow down for traffic or an intersection (for throttle gives me 55 km/h on the flat and around 45 km/h uphill).

The main reason for this is to reduce heat buildup in my controller, as partial throttle is a known factor in risking failure for this RC ESC type controller.

Also, this is a great speed for my commute.

My throttle could be a switch.

If I'm not stopped, it's at 100%.

Mark_A_W said:

My throttle could be a switch.

If I'm not stopped, it's at 100%.

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+1

I rarely use full throttle as it puts me over normal bicycling speeds.
However, with a X5304 @ 48V, 20 Ah LiFePO4 and 48A controller, the bike doth book when twisted.
I love it for merging.

Full throttle and pedalling in an appropriate gear works well for hauling loads up hill.
I also use it when I'm jeopardising my drivers license by street racing scooters and stinkers. . .

or frustrating caged but wipes who just have to pass the bike.
Admittedly it's usually on traffic calmed streets so I smoke em through the round-abouts, around the curb bulbs and over the speed humps.
Every time they bottom out it makes me chuckle.
le Béte handles the 30 kmh speed humps nicely at forty, unless you're tucked on the deck and going for sixty.

The other times I've used full throttle is when the pack is failed.
Let the throttle bump the CA low Voltage setting or kick out the BMS.
Grab a gear you can crank and nurse the bits home while feathering the throttle and pedalling.

Full throttle performance expectations can you get you into trouble in traffic if your pack ain't up to it.

Yeah, depends on the build. 95% full throttle for me, maybe more. 48v 30A, 9C motor, 22mph top speed on the flats without pedaling. I upgraded the biggest chain ring from 44t to 48t so I can pedal faster than the motor at full throttle, as dogman was describing above.

My last bike was never at full throttle for my commute to work, but I ran 100% throttle and was pedal assisting fast as hell on the way home-go figure. :lol:

Ypedal said:

Mark_A_W said:

My throttle could be a switch.

If I'm not stopped, it's at 100%.

Click to expand...

+1

Click to expand...

+2

There's a setting other than "On" for this thing?

Either I've become a weany since my crash or it's because my bike is fast, but I only use full throttle for about 5% of my ride where I need to do 65kph to avoid getting squashed by cars, or for showing off!

I generally do low 30's as that's the speed I can pedal comfortably at and I like getting some exercise. That said, I'd never be happy with a bike that could only do 30, even if I don't use the speed, I like knowing it's there!

I'm with drunk - I could actually save some weight and just wire for WOT on push button (or toggle), I just don't feather the throttle it's either on or off and I'm still, coasting or pedaling {ha, believe that last one? I've got some prime real estate for sale, real cheap - western union only - lol}
-Mike

I actually ride the throttle at about 50-60% most of the time, because if i roll it to 100% I draw over 30 amps and don't get any significant acceleration. I'm using a brushed motor so I imagine its due to an "overload state."

I seldom ride at full throttle (< 5%). My regular commute takes me on bike/pedestrian trails where 22-24mph is the max "safe" speed. I find I most often push it when bucking a headwind, climbing or showing off.

It's really a mix for me. If I am in wye mode, I am at full throttle most of the time giving me 26mph. That is not my top speed though. If I switch to delta, my top speed increases to 45mph. In delta, I am at full throttle probably 70% of the time. The other 30% I am either behind someone going slow, or just going around 30mph on the side of the road to extend range a bit compared to 45mph.

Ok, I'll fess up. I didn't push full throttle yesterday, even though it was cold as heck, primarily because I wanted to extend my range and there was absolutely no traffic to compete with. Good thing too because my battery was practically flat when I got back.