Bike stuck in reverse

matthook

1 mW
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
11
Hi I am a newbie and bought a bike as a non runner I think it is a CIPHY brand, about 7 years old. ( the chap I bought it from said it belonged to his father who died and it has been in storage for ages and was a bit seized up, I have freed everything
I got the battery charged, and working except I only get a red light on the charge indicator/

All the wiring appears to be bodged. It has a Longma throttle control and when I turn it the back wheel runs backwards. The controller doesnt have a make or model on it All the wiring seems in the right place. There are three wires going to the motor yellow blue and green. I tried reversing the wiring on the blue and green and it just shudders but still in the wrong direction.

Should I buy a new controller or is there some simple fix

I have taken the controller apart and cant see anything obvious, From researching on the net I think it couldbe a Infineon controller,

I dont know much about all this so any help greatly appreciated.
 
Matthook, I have no real idea, but from what you posted it sounds like you have a brushless motor with no halls. try "pedaling" first, or if on a non-pedaled wheel, try spinning the wheel forward before hitting the throttle. Some of the sensorless controllers don't work until there is movement in the proper direction. Good luck. :D
 
If it has just 3 wires, it likely needs to be rolling forward to get started. Probobally at least 5-10 mph before you try the throttle. It may still run backwards, so be ready for it if it does so you don't go over the bars.

If it has 3 fat wires and 5 small, then it sounds like the wires should match up. But some of that stuff from china is that screwy, or the controller could be non original. So if it has the 5 small wires, you will need to make the same color swap on the 5 small wires as you made on the big wires.

Good luck.

If all fails, you could get a sensorless controller. The modern ones don't need pedal to start, and you could easily figure out the right color combination to run forward. High Tek bikes in california sells a nice sensorless controller. I have two of em.

Too bad it's not a front wheel. For that, you just flip the wheel around and viola! runs forward.
 
HI Thanks for all your helps guys Im going to give it a try now, and yes you are right dand , there are 5 little wires as well. I will kick myself if it works and is it doesnt then, I be in the local hospital. Ill let you know how it goes. Hopefully Itll be ok.

:roll: :roll:

Ive had a nightmare with it had to take the battery apart there was 3 12v batts all the wires were cut and joined with terminal blocks,Ive redone all the wiring and hopefully once I get the brakes sorted itll be a good bike

Speak soon :p :p
 
It should run then, if you reverse blue and green on both the big and little sets of wires. Whatever combo you are doing on the three big wires, match it on the little wires. Red and black on the little wires stay matched up, red to red, black to black.
 
View attachment 1GEDC0037.jpgHi , Thanks for all the advice I tried an and nope it wont have it pedalled like mad and turned the throttle, it was like a brake on the back wheel,

There are 5 smaller wires red, black then the green blue and yellow, and the 3 thicker wires.

I might try what dogman says, If I reverse the green and blues on all four?? will that work. I dont understand why the guy I got it from claimed it used to run fine? What about the yellows ?

There is a number stamped on the hub HBS-36V750W 0908117.
I know a bit about electrics but not sure on these 3 phase motors?

I did try stupidly revering the main battery feed wires around and got a large bang and flash so havent dont that again

Hope fully someone will know the answer, Looking at the wiring it could be that someine has changed the controller? as I have two spare connectors as well?
Hopefully I have uploaded some pictures
 

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NEVER reverse the red and black wires! You might have blown the controller doing that.

As Dogman says switch the blue & green on the phase(large) and the hall(small) wires and try it again. You don't need to pedal to get it going as ithas HALL sensors that tell the controller the way to run.

In the picture it doesn't look like it's 7 years old as it has a disc brake with an adapter fopr the caliper, so that is not that old I think.
Dan
 
Thanks Dand, Not sure about the age then, Thats what the chap told me, how old it was, not sure he really knew to be honest said his dad died a year ago and it had been in the back of the garage rotting, There quite a bit of rust on it but the tyre look new so I dont think it has had a lot of use

I just tried the reverse of the blue and green on both the big and small wires and DAMN it still doesnt work, Still runs in reverse but slower than when they are around the right way.

I didnt want to spend much more money on it, is it worth buying a new controller, or is there anything else I can take apart ( the drum itself?)

I did try crossing the red and blacks and it didnt do anything,

#might get it running one day
 
Have you checked the obvious? Many controller have a reverse mode. That's the first thing I'd check. It's usually a jumper on the board, but sometimes it's brought out to a switch, or just a couple of wires you plug together for one way and unplug for the other way.
 
It's definitely not a swap of color on color for halls and phase to get reverse unless the controller wasn't assembled correctly. First, make sure it still even runs in reverse after the polarity swap, which probably blew the controller. If it does, remember only to try only small throttle pulses with wiring attempts, because incorrect combos can push high currents with big twists of the throttle.

If it's a true and smooth reverse, then swap 2 phase wires (only 2, any 2). The correct combination will be one of the 5 remaining for the blue-green-yellow halls wires. It's easiest to slip the hall spades out of the connector. I use a tiny allen key to press the little locking tab down and make each spade slide right out of the connector. Once you find the right combo, slide them back in in the proper order.
 
It could be a controller that is sourced from someplace else. So it could be that you need to swap some wires.

Now though, you may have a burnt controller. Does it still run backwards? If not, then a sensorless controlller could be an easy solution.
 
Thanks People, Yes It still runs at high speed in reverse, I cant see any jumpers on the board, Im confused now John in CR

Are you saying I could pick any two thick wires and swap them then just try different combinations of the smaller "hall" wires until it goes forward?
#

The polarity Swap I did didnt really seem to do anything, I only tried it quickly and it was just dead so I changed them back quickly.

I will have aanother bash on it tommorrow. hopefully let you know.
 
Try different combos of the three colors, such as bg, yy, gb, etc. when you swap the big wires, do the same matching swap on the little wires. One of em should run forwards. If forwards but still jerky, keep trying after making sure you didn't just have a bad connection on the little wires.
 
You could always just reverse the wheel. You have to swap sides with the disc and freewheel though. But once you have the wheel off that shouldn't be hard. Do you have pictures of the controller board?
 
Likely that if he did that, the wheel would be really dished wrong. But it's certainly possible that the wheel was built backwards in the first place. Particularly possible if back then a bare motor was bought, and laced by the LBS. Sould be possible to fix it by swapping wires though.
 
matthook said:
Are you saying I could pick any two thick wires and swap them then just try different combinations of the smaller "hall" wires until it goes forward?

Yes, exactly. That's the easy way, and at most it should take 5 tries, because the working reverse tells you the current config of both the large and small are incorrect for forward. Unfortunately, many if not most people do it the hard way and just start swapping wires around, a frustrating process. With sensorless it's even easier, just swap any 2 phase wires and you change direction. With sensored, just swap 2 and then find the right hall combo.

Be alert for a false positive result. With some motors It's possible for the wheel to spin with a bad combo, but only the right one will be strong quiet and smooth. False positives are typically wrong direction.
 
Theoretically, if you swap colors on the big wires, the same swap on the halls wires should be the right halls combination for that arrangement of the big wires.

I bet this motor has a replacement controller. The owners most likely never figured out the right combo to make it run forward. If it does stump you permanently, a replacement sensorless controller will be easy as pie to get the combo figured out. Might cost you some $$ but you'll be riding. :mrgreen:
 
You are all Geniuses. (I Think).
I have left the thick wires where they are, And I have crossed the smaller "hall" wires in the following format:
Yello to Green, Green to Blue , Blue to Green. It NOW Goes forward WOW!!!. ITs a bit shuddery at first but then its ok especially if you pedal with it.

I have tried loads of different combinations but this is the only one that goes forward.

The thing I have noticed is that the thick wires get really hot. ?is this ok, Im not going to burn anything out am I


Thanks a lot for all your help This forum is amazing. I would have been there for weeks and would have probably given up by now.

Just got to get the brakes and the shocks sorted and I, away

Take care :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :wink: :wink: :wink:
 
You have a combination that is forward, but unfortunately the shudder and the hot wires indicate it's not the correct one. Run it like this, and you will melt the motor or the controller. Keep looking for the right combo, that runs forward and smooth. There should be one.

What you have now, is most likely only two phases running forward, and one trying to back up. So it runs, but man is it ever working hard fighting that reverse wire.
 
the phase wires shouldnt be getting hot like that,and the motor shouldnt be jerky in any way.and dont keep riding it that way or you'll fry something,here's fetchers thread, it explains how to find the right combo http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484
 
You have a false positive that I warned you of. Do not ride it like that or you will burn motor or controller or both. Swap 2 and only 2 phase wires and find the right combo of the small ones for a nice smooth forward.
 
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