reviving a dead BionX battery

krazykraut3711

100 µW
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
7
Location
Portland, OR
Hi guys, I hope this is the right place to ask. I got a full BionX kit (PL350 motor, 36 V Battery, charger, no controller or cables) for a good price on eBay. The battery hasn't been charged in a few months, and the charger doesn't recognize it anymore (just a solid red led). From what I understand, the battery must have a minimal charge before the charger will recognize it. What is the best strategy here? Please help.

- Krazykraut
 
krazykraut3711 said:
Hi guys, I hope this is the right place to ask. I got a full BionX kit (PL350 motor, 36 V Battery, charger, no controller or cables) for a good price on eBay. The battery hasn't been charged in a few months, and the charger doesn't recognize it anymore (just a solid red led). From what I understand, the battery must have a minimal charge before the charger will recognize it. What is the best strategy here? Please help.

- Krazykraut
three methods to recover bionx battery
1.) open up the battery and use a very low amp charger, like 200mAh, it will takes 2 days to recharge the battery very slowly
2.) open up the battery and use 42v adapter, not charger. Because normal charger will not charge when the voltage is too low
3.) this method doesn't work for you. but here is instruction. Put the entire bike/system onto training stand, pedal it and regen the battery, once the voltage is up, you can then use normal charger to charge it.

Ken
 
itselectric said:
three methods to recover bionx battery
1.) open up the battery and use a very low amp charger, like 200mAh, it will takes 2 days to recharge the battery very slowly
2.) open up the battery and use 42v adapter, not charger. Because normal charger will not charge when the voltage is too low
3.) this method doesn't work for you. but here is instruction. Put the entire bike/system onto training stand, pedal it and regen the battery, once the voltage is up, you can then use normal charger to charge it.

Ken

Thanks Ken, exactly what I was looking for. We have a 36 V Lab Supply with settable output at work, so that would work great.

- Krazykraut
 
I don't have experience with this battery. However, I think Ken is right. Open the battery up and charge the battery terminals directly so as to bring the battery voltage up above about 32 volts or higher. Then see if the bms will allow the battery will charge with the charger through the normal charge port. Many batteries like this show the behavior you experienced because the battery voltage drifted below a cut-off whereby the bms will not allow the battery to charge (for safety reasons).
 
I have the same issue, and this is exactly the answer I was hoping to find. Does it matter what voltage the 200mA charger is? I can't seem to find a 42V 200mA charger online. Do I have to take apart the battery or can I charge it off the lead to the battery, i.e. where the regenerative charging would connect to the battery. Thanks for the help!
 
xsnairx said:
I have the same issue, and this is exactly the answer I was hoping to find. Does it matter what voltage the 200mA charger is? I can't seem to find a 42V 200mA charger online. Do I have to take apart the battery or can I charge it off the lead to the battery, i.e. where the regenerative charging would connect to the battery. Thanks for the help!
yes, it is extremely difficult to find such as charger. I have them custom made by the charger manufacturer.

And yes, it is possible use other voltage such as 54v 200mA, or other voltage. I never tried 12v 200mA, but it should work too. But you need to monitor the voltage, otherwise you could over charge the battery and fire it. Once the voltage is up, say 24 or 28v, then switch to regular charger. Yes, you need to take parts, and hook to B+ and B-. The charger that you need is for lithium or SLA, don't use charger that are for NiCad or NiMh.

The whole purpose of these is two thing:
1.) you want bring up the voltage, so the regular charger can see voltage and charge it
2.) you want to recover each cell at a much low current, bring them up evenly, and every once awhile a slow charge is good for the battery

If you try to regen it, then you don't have open up the battery, but you will need a training stand. It will be a good workout for you. :mrgreen:

Ken
 
I hooked up the battery to a lab power supply, not a charger, at 36V limited to 200mA for an hour. During that time, the voltage across the terminal rose slowly from zero to ca. 25 V. After disconnecting, the voltage dropped slowly but steadily.
Hooking it up to the BMC again, I could not get the charger to recognize it, so I guess I will retry a little longer to go past 32V. Is that just a number or does have someone specs for the BionX BMC?

- Krazykraut
 
And in case I can't get the BMC to recognize the cells: has anyone been able to replace just the cells? These seem to be somewhat standard, or is there more BionX specific stuff inside the shrink-wrapped pack?
 
I think they use Sony V or VT cells. Check with Doc Bass as he has some batteries and cells for sale of the same quality.
otherDoc
 
Put something is series with your lab supply such that you can slowly get the battery voltage past about 32 volts. At that voltage the battery may be more stable and the bms may recognize the stock charger through it's regular charge terminals. What color are the cells? If red, they are likely Sanyo.
 
Success! Stock charger recognizes the battery and charges now. It took me a few hours at 36V/200mA to get above 32V cell voltage, but now it's happily plugging away. Not sure how much capacity is lost, but my commute is only 18 miles, and I can recharge at the office for the way home, so I should be ok. Now to open up the motor and see what's wrong with that...

Thanks everybody!

- Krazykraut
 
Great!.. one more satisfied visitor! :wink:

Doc
 
krazykraut3711 said:
Success! Stock charger recognizes the battery and charges now. It took me a few hours at 36V/200mA to get above 32V cell voltage, but now it's happily plugging away. Not sure how much capacity is lost, but my commute is only 18 miles, and I can recharge at the office for the way home, so I should be ok. Now to open up the motor and see what's wrong with that...

Thanks everybody!

- Krazykraut
Krazykraut:
The lesson here is patient. It normally takes 2 days to slow charge, it is good for the battery. There are no true BMS in Binox battery. A standard charger will not charge when the voltage is below certain number. It had nothing to do with BMS.

Ken
 
krazykraut3711 said:
Doctorbass said:
Great!.. one more satisfied visitor! :wink:

Doc
Doc,
I intend to be more than just a visitor. I will contribute as much as I can. Communities like this are the life blood of the internet.
Thanks,
- Fabian

This is why I'm here! I have 2 bionx systems. I know the regen trick and got one up and running this season, but my other will not charge with the
charger. I will try the SLA 12v method and report back here of my findings!

And DOC! I'm always a satisfied user/contributor of this forum! ;)

What a great place!

Tommy L sends....
 
My unit is Rev 3.8

Pack voltage was 15v :( One of the above replies is correct by saying....."checking direct pack voltage thru pins 2 & 4" :)

I used a SLA charger on 2amps. in 2 to 3 hours the pack voltage climbed to 18v. A very slow process.
We had to go out this evening, so I unplugged it to be safe :)
I will continue to hit with the SLA car charger at 2amps to see if it will come back to life!

In the meantime, I built a 12S 8ah 38.4v nominal pack using the new Headway 38120HP Red cells.
Charged pack voltage 41.1v My other BIONX that I managed to bring back to life charge up to 41.2v.
So I believe this 12S Headway pack will do the job. I set the Regen down to 20 on the console.
I'm hoping that this will limit that High 60v peak that can occur. This Bionx system is on my Catrike.
It has dual hydraulic front breaks, so it nice to have some regen on the rear wheel :)

I can't wait to do my next built with out a proprietary system. :)
The Bionx is absolutely great if you are looking for AUTO/Assist while pedaling.

YPEDAL surely say: "But Why Pedal?" lol :)
 
Tommy L said:
My unit is Rev 3.8

Pack voltage was 15v :( One of the above replies is correct by saying....."checking direct pack voltage thru pins 2 & 4" :)

I used a SLA charger on 2amps. in 2 to 3 hours the pack voltage climbed to 18v. A very slow process.
We had to go out this evening, so I unplugged it to be safe :)
I will continue to hit with the SLA car charger at 2amps to see if it will come back to life!

In the meantime, I built a 12S 8ah 38.4v nominal pack using the new Headway 38120HP Red cells.
Charged pack voltage 41.1v My other BIONX that I managed to bring back to life charge up to 41.2v.
So I believe this 12S Headway pack will do the job. I set the Regen down to 20 on the console.
I'm hoping that this will limit that High 60v peak that can occur. This Bionx system is on my Catrike.
It has dual hydraulic front breaks, so it nice to have some regen on the rear wheel :)
The slower the charging is, the better the recovery for the battery. The smaller amp the better, like 200mah.

The over regen problem also had something to do with BMS of battery, if the BMS doesn't like too much reverse current, it shut down the battery. That when you could run into problem. These common problem also had been resolved with IC2 console version higher v4.7.

Ken
 
itselectric said:
Tommy L said:
My unit is Rev 3.8

Pack voltage was 15v :( One of the above replies is correct by saying....."checking direct pack voltage thru pins 2 & 4" :)

I used a SLA charger on 2amps. in 2 to 3 hours the pack voltage climbed to 18v. A very slow process.
We had to go out this evening, so I unplugged it to be safe :)
I will continue to hit with the SLA car charger at 2amps to see if it will come back to life!

In the meantime, I built a 12S 8ah 38.4v nominal pack using the new Headway 38120HP Red cells.
Charged pack voltage 41.1v My other BIONX that I managed to bring back to life charge up to 41.2v.
So I believe this 12S Headway pack will do the job. I set the Regen down to 20 on the console.
I'm hoping that this will limit that High 60v peak that can occur. This Bionx system is on my Catrike.
It has dual hydraulic front breaks, so it nice to have some regen on the rear wheel :)
The slower the charging is, the better the recovery for the battery. The smaller amp the better, like 200mah.

The over regen problem also had something to do with BMS of battery, if the BMS doesn't like too much reverse current, it shut down the battery. That when you could run into problem. These common problem also had been resolved with IC2 console version higher v4.7.

Ken

Hello Ken!

I have spoken with you in the past! You are a very helpful soul!
I greatly appreciate your input. I thought you had said 2000ma ..... and I converted it to 2amp.
Good thing I stopped. Ok. I will use a small wall wart charger and continue. :)

Also, my Bionx system came with the Battery Pack and separate BMS. I took the pack apart to look so I could
connect my new pack to the BMS black box. The Bionx Battery had two things: 1). looks like HEAT sensor, two wires
2). a wire going to battery Negative with a small RESISTOR? or mini CAP? very tiny.

I hooked these up to my new 38120HP Headway 12S pack and the Bionx charger works! :) Stops the charge at 41.1v :)

The cells of the Bionx pack are 18650 and are green in color 12s5p I believe.

Any more thoughts on my new hook up?
Thank you Ken!

Tommy L sends...
 
Hmmmmm, Maybe next time I'll look closer at the weld tab layout before I say the "S" and the "P" lol

It's 10s6p. Checking the voltage across the Series .... I'm fine for half the pack (5s around 15-17v)
and the other 5s half is 0.4v. :(

I think that it might not come back to life....

picture.php
 
Just wanted to share my Bionx battery story

"Hello, I was finally able to charge my battery. But I still do not understand how the battery is suddenly gone from 1.4 volts to 38 volts without recharging. After realising that the charger did not want to detect my battery, I first I tested the battery with a multimeter in the port XLR and this indicated 1.4v Then I opened the battery to go and test it directly to the terminals and the meter showed 38v ... I then re-tested in XLR and by miracle I got a 38v (before that it was stock at 1.4v for days). As if it is the BMS only let pass 1.4v and that the fact to test directly to the terminals woke him up. Thereafter I could plug the charger to charge my battery and 42v. Does anyone know if this is a known issue?"


Xtaphore Lamotte
 
I have the same issue as the OP. I was wondering if this kind of SLA charger/maintainer would work to bring the voltage up so that the bionx charger could work:

http://www.amazon.com/BatteryMINDer-Model-12117-Maintainer-Desulfator/dp/B000P23HZS

I don't want to invest in a 200mah charger if I don't have to.

Also, I tried that trick where you pedal for 20 minutes, but that didn't work.
 
Hi,
I want to try this too, and found a 42V 2A adapter, sold as hooverboard charger/adapter. Is it ok to plug this directly to the battery endpoints ?
 
This is great info, thanks. Do I really need to open the battery up, or can I just make a connector from my power source using the socket on the battery pack?
 
Im not Sure how to put the battery into Regen if I cannot get it to turn on can someone please help me with this how do I regen the battery?
 
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