Womens bike vs mens bike for battery mounting.

I can see how a drop in pack could work, using flanges that extend out a bit, to cover the tubes that it sits upon.
 
friendly1uk said:
I can see how a drop in pack could work, using flanges that extend out a bit, to cover the tubes that it sits upon.
Click to expand...

Exactly right. It would be great to have all that room to have the battries, etc, mounted down low and easy to step over.
 
You have discovered something others have before, a step through bike can make mounting a battery box easy.

Best solution for me so far though, needed a welder. A mixte style frame, mixte has two top bars instead of one. I built with the top bars farther apart than normal, so now the battery box, bag, whatever slides right in through the top.

For such a project, a ladies bike would be a great starting point, requiring very little welding to complete in mixte style.Finished cargo mixte..jpgFront battery tray.jpg
 
Boyntonstu said:
A front end like on this trike comes to mind.

http://www.sears.com/schwinn-meridi...830?sellerId=10149701&hlItemId=SPM11514198830
Click to expand...
If I had a trike like that I'd do the same thing I did with my SB Cruiser trike, which is to mount the batteries under the seat to the side(s), and keep them completely out of the way for stepping over the frame. Nothing in the way to hit with me or my cane. :)

file.php
 
amberwolf said:
Boyntonstu said:
A front end like on this trike comes to mind.

http://www.sears.com/schwinn-meridi...830?sellerId=10149701&hlItemId=SPM11514198830
Click to expand...
If I had a trike like that I'd do the same thing I did with my SB Cruiser trike, which is to mount the batteries under the seat to the side(s), and keep them completely out of the way for stepping over the frame. Nothing in the way to hit with me or my cane. :)

file.php
Click to expand...

Beautiful recumbent trike.

Do you have difficulty climbing hills with the front wheel drive even with PA?
 
Thanks--It's actually rear wheel drive now (that was it's first "finished"stage; it's evolved since, if you look at the SB Cruiser thread linked in my signature)

We don't have much in the waiy of hiills around here, but it probably woudl'vve done fine as long as I d idn't have a dog in the crate on the back. :oops: Wuld probably have wheeleied if I did.


My knees and such don't really let me pedal muich so it's pretty much all motor operated these days. Up a hill I wouldn't even t ry pedalling; it'd be pretty well useless (just painful).

But I really posted to show the battery placement, which hasn't changed, it's the ammocan on the right side of the seat. Ther'es a cargo box on the left side, but can also have a second battery there or in addtion to the one on fhtt right. Could also strap them on t he frame up front if Iahd to, or in the bed, but the best spot has proven to be where it is.
 
In any case, no top bar in your way can make mounting a battery mid fame easy. Wineboy had a bike at the races, where he bolted a rear rack to the top bar of the ladies frame, then a toolbox to that. Bingo,, easy.

The lack of a top bar in the way, meant his battery need not be shaped like a triangle. A bike like this can work great.Giant Steel Frame 21 Speed Mountain Bikes.JPG
 
dogman dan said:
In any case, no top bar in your way can make mounting a battery mid fame easy. Wineboy had a bike at the races, where he bolted a rear rack to the top bar of the ladies frame, then a toolbox to that. Bingo,, easy.

The lack of a top bar in the way, meant his battery need not be shaped like a triangle. A bike like this can work great.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the photo, it looks great.

Yes! A step through womens bike is much easier to mount.

Would saddle bags style mounts with the battery weight low at the rear axle height be even better for handling?
 
Maybe--as long as the rack can't wiggle at all, or the bags attached to it. Any wiggle or movement will wiggle the whole bike from the backend (tail wagging the dog) and also eventually break your rack.


I use cargo boxes mounted to the frame itself on CrazyBike2; it's built specifically for that purpose.
file.php


But the battery is presently in the frame direclty in front of the seat on that one, with a cargo pod on the left under the seat and a space for a spare battery on the right under the seat.

I've run it with the battery just on the right, nothing in the frame, but it handles better right in front of the seat inside the frame.

Different bikes (or trikes) will handle differnetly with different placements of weigth, but in what I've seen on ES and what I've built myself, two-wheelers handle better with that placement, while trikes seem to do better with them as low and as outboard as you can get it, to keep tipping to a minimum at speed in turns.
 
Boyntonstu said:
It seems to me that a step through womens bike is a better platform to mount batteries.

Scooters do not use triangles and are pretty rugged.

A front end like on this trike comes to mind.

http://www.sears.com/schwinn-meridi...830?sellerId=10149701&hlItemId=SPM11514198830
Click to expand...

Link didn't work because of european IP so didn't get to check out the trike you linked.

Most or at least many Scooters uses 2 tubes side by side with braces in between from head tube backwards. That makes them rugged. A typical womens bike uses one tube bent to an S shape or even 2 tubes o/u to make the S shape. The latter is strongest. But hard to fit batteries.

If you make a frame like a scooter you could have an easy to step into bike and maybe even fit all the battery you need "under the floor board".
Good low gravity, easy to use in town, usable for all riders even elderly riders, or people with some handicaps. In many countries in europe those scooters are ridden with 2, 3 or even the whole family and bags of groceries. Those frames handle 400-500 lbs of rider weight with ease.

$_32.JPG
 
macribs said:
Boyntonstu said:
It seems to me that a step through womens bike is a better platform to mount batteries.

Scooters do not use triangles and are pretty rugged.

A front end like on this trike comes to mind.

http://www.sears.com/schwinn-meridi...830?sellerId=10149701&hlItemId=SPM11514198830
Click to expand...

Link didn't work because of european IP so didn't get to check out the trike you linked.

Most or at least many Scooters uses 2 tubes side by side with braces in between from head tube backwards. That makes them rugged. A typical womens bike uses one tube bent to an S shape or even 2 tubes o/u to make the S shape. The latter is strongest. But hard to fit batteries.

If you make a frame like a scooter you could have an easy to step into bike and maybe even fit all the battery you need "under the floor board".
Good low gravity, easy to use in town, usable for all riders even elderly riders, or people with some handicaps. In many countries in europe those scooters are ridden with 2, 3 or even the whole family and bags of groceries. Those frames handle 400-500 lbs of rider weight with ease.

$_32.JPG
Click to expand...


Very strong but you can't pedal it.
 
This is the pic I was looking for before, that shows the other side of the bike, and it's left-side under-seat cargo pod
file.php


Also shows the trike better, and after I moved the motor to the rear.

More of those pics here in this post
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12500&start=1075#p1055466
 
amberwolf said:
This is the pic I was looking for before, that shows the other side of the bike, and it's left-side under-seat cargo pod
file.php


Also shows the trike better, and after I moved the motor to the rear.

More of those pics here in this post
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12500&start=1075#p1055466
Click to expand...

At what speed do you commute?
 
Very strong but you can't pedal it.
Click to expand...


Well you don't need to make a carbon copy, you could make the frame have a narrow rear end that allows for pedals, and use as wide crank as possible ie fat bike crank with really short crank arms. That way you keep the "bicycle" part for legal reasons, if you do want to pedal a lot other design might be better suited.
 
Boyntonstu said:
At what speed do you commute?
Click to expand...
Mostly just under 20MPH for work, but there are about a dozen full stops in the 2.4 miles on each leg of the trip, dpeending on traffic and timing of approach to the lights.

On non-time-critical trips, I may ride more around 15-18MPH.

On any street with traffic, I'll stay at the just-under-20MPH speed, because that's the fastest allowed here, and annoys car drivers the least . (even if there is a whole separate bike lane you're riding in, the faster you are going the less likely they are to honk at you or yell at you to get off the road...if you're actually in a traffic lane, even if there are several of them and they are wide, faster is an even better idea...but you still can't go anywhere near as fast as the cars unless you break the law and risk four-digit-plus tickets and fines, and losing your bike).
 
A few years ago, there were a couple college students who put together a video on how great ebikes are. I can't find it anymore, but it was incredibly well done. I was a "summer project" where they did some research into ebikes and put one together.

Unfortunately, they chose 36V SLA for the low purchase price, but...the really interesting thing was that they chose a "step through" (womens?) frame with especially low top-bars. Then they fabbed a box to hold the three 12V SLA's just on top of the top bars, and then covered them with cheap and easy side-plates, which ended up making it look like a man's frame. Just a thought..
 
Good example of what I meant, just more possibilities open with those step throughs. Some step throughs suck though, too bendy side to side. My wife's giant, in the pic I showed is a good stiff one.

Back in the lead days, lots of people mounted lead batteries very low on pannier style racks on the rear wheel. it handles better than on top of a rear rack. But not better than in the middle.

Now that we have lithium, and a 36v 10 ah pack is under 10 pounds, mounting a battery on top of a rear rack is not so bad. Above 10 pounds, still kind of sucks. But under 10 is hardly noticeable for street riding.

But the same under 10 pound battery still feels better, in the middle. :wink:
 
dogman dan said:
Good example of what I meant, just more possibilities open with those step throughs. Some step throughs suck though, too bendy side to side. My wife's giant, in the pic I showed is a good stiff one.

Back in the lead days, lots of people mounted lead batteries very low on pannier style racks on the rear wheel. it handles better than on top of a rear rack. But not better than in the middle.

Now that we have lithium, and a 36v 10 ah pack is under 10 pounds, mounting a battery on top of a rear rack is not so bad. Above 10 pounds, still kind of sucks. But under 10 is hardly noticeable for street riding.

But the same under 10 pound battery still feels better, in the middle. :wink:
Click to expand...

CG perfection = Womans bike with 2 tubes close to each other with the thin batteries mounted to them on both sides,

Low CG and step through ease. However, the tubes have to provide non-bendy.

This one looks pretty strong: http://lakeland.craigslist.org/bik/5724181416.html

Have you experienced bendy when road riding?
 
I posted a thred ~on this matter.

Papa amberwolf sent me here to play. Shall try & delete the other.

it was~

"A ladies is structurally inferior as it lacks the crossbar of a mens.

So, the remaining lower 2 sides of the triangle have to be made stronger and heavier.

The advantage for ebikers is there is no "ceiling" on the ideal mounting point for heavy components.

A unisex frame limits how low things can be. A more u shaped frame is preferred.

So maybe start with a strong lower frame ladies, and add a (curved?) crossbar which allows room for all the stuff you want to put low and centered (as heavy steel cruisers do but mtbS can be squeezy) - like whomper batteries, better clearance mid drives, petrol motors...

it is of course for sub 95kg riders. Weight saving for big riders is less relevant anyway, and they need stronger forks etc also.

It seems to me modern bicycle makers are so busy playing with their new wizz bang production techniques to make "sexy" curvy frames, they completely ignore the needs of ebikers. Some are forced into heavy dinosaur bikes like cruisers, simply for suitable mounting space."

Further, re the structural thing as above & elsewhere here, there are parallels with convertibles and sedans. Convertibles are at a similar disadvantage to ladies bikes. They need a heavier floor to compensate for their inherent weakness.
 
Unless you have special stepover issues like a bad hip, or wanting to ride in skirts, there's no beating a diamond- ish frame with a dedicated battery bay.

KIMG0090-640x360.JPG

KIMG0091-640x360.JPG


At the dealer I worked at we had several step-thrus crack, and just not be up to the extra weight and speed of electric power. Scooters only get away with it at the sacrifice of any glimmer of portability due to the huge weight.
 
Voltron said:
Unless you have special stepover issues like a bad hip, or wanting to ride in skirts, there's no beating a diamond- ish frame with a dedicated battery bay.

View attachment 1




At the dealer I worked at we had several step-thrus crack, and just not be up to the extra weight and speed of electric power. Scooters only get away with it at the sacrifice of any glimmer of portability due to the huge weight.
Click to expand...


The Day 6 rugged step through bike is the exception to your rule:

https://youtu.be/-jtWUcY2qP0

[youtube]-jtWUcY2qP0[/youtube]
 
Well, there are no rules of course.. :)

And that does seem beefy, but I would maybe call it a semi recumbent? I was visualizing something like this as the modernish mass produced step thru...

thstep.jpg

or this... but so many variations these days.



I've ridden both of these a bunch, the white one felt terrible and the black one felt great... just so you know I'm not a step thru hater :)
 
Voltron said:
Well, there are no rules of course.. :)

And that does seem beefy, but I would maybe call it a semi recumbent? I was visualizing something like this as the modernish mass produced step thru...

View attachment 1

or this... but so many variations these days.



I've ridden both of these a bunch, the white one felt terrible and the black one felt great... just so you know I'm not a step thru hater :)
Click to expand...

IMHO The Day 6 with the spacious natural battery location, comfortable riding long wheelbase, backrest, and feet forward pedaling, it is the best bike for DIY electric bike builders that I have seen. And for $200 at a pawn shop, what a bargain!
 
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