New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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larudakote   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by larudakote » May 04 2021 12:00pm

Hi from France!

I'm new here. A 55 old enthusiast biker. I was a real fan during years 1994 to 2006 (XC, enduro and downhill) then I stopped my practice. Thanks to this motor, I'm back on track :)
Here is my first setup with the TSDZ2 motor (I made some city bikes with Bafang BBS01).

After ±500km, the freewheel (crank) was slipping under high load. I changed the freewheel under warranty; thanks to www.PSWpower.com. I hope it is a defective one.
If not, the TSDZ2 is not compatible with my practice. Nowadays I don't run so fast but I do some short but quite hard downhill.

When I replaced the freewheel, I think I damaged the torque sensor: first, the crank was a little bit hard to turn. So a little noise was audible around this side. This week-end, I noticed a lack of power: I turned frequently to the 3 power mode! Usually 2 or 3 mode. Perhaps my legs this time? :)

So, my questions are:
1. the torque sensor could be partially broken?
2. in order to achieve a fast repair session, because of some difficulty to pull out my freewheel, is anybody here tried to make a gear pulling tool? See page 6 here. I asked PSWpower: they don't sell it. I think it's quite simple to make it.

beemac   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by beemac » May 04 2021 2:39pm

Elinx wrote:
May 04 2021 11:00am
beemac wrote:
May 04 2021 10:53am
... drive side - replacing the rubber seal in the centre of the spider. ..
OK, so no extra bearings... :)
Not sure what you mean - on the drive side only I replaced the original seal with the enduro bearing... I'd like to do similar on the other side but have so many other things to work on that it's way down the list :)

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 04 2021 4:37pm

Very good news!! @stancecoke and @abrainer did manage to develop the firmware to make TSDZ2 motor running with FOC, one the TSDZ2 motor controller V2:



I expect this advantages from using TSDZ2 motor controller V2 versus V1, using our OpenSource firmware:
1. better FOC (the hardware only changes were to provide this better FOC), meaning:
1.1 - more efficiency
1.2 - less motor heating
1.3 - less motor noise
1.4 - throttle and motor temperature sensor simultaneous, as seems there is an extra input pad for an analog signal

See here the code and all the information. Help is highly welcome: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ ... troller_v2
Last edited by casainho on May 04 2021 4:57pm, edited 1 time in total.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » May 04 2021 4:56pm

beemac wrote:
May 04 2021 2:39pm
..... on the drive side only I replaced the original seal with the enduro bearing... ..
It was a bit confusing for me, because of the link to that seal, but at last it is clear to me now. :thumb:

beemac   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by beemac » May 05 2021 6:11am

beemac wrote:
May 03 2021 2:24pm
ebbsocalMTB wrote:
May 03 2021 10:52am
For those following along in my tsdz2 install saga... I've been communicating with David from Eco-ebike. He's been very helpful in helping me QA/QC the issues and is helping to give input on the thermal capacity mod solutions.

In order to keep checking things off the list that could be issues... I did my same 6.3 mi / 165' elevation gain, commute to work today that I had a few times before. Ambient temps are more or less the same, maybe a handful of degrees warmer. Last time I did this ride I was experiencing overheating issues at 3.72 miles when riding at assist level 6. During that ride, my cadence was keeping the motor at more or less ~500rpm indicated, (which I read as 5,000 rpm) and many times, would end up above that for extended runs (3-5 minutes straight).

Today I tried the same ride, but kept the assist level in 4, and made sure to slow my cadence down to keep the motor at around 400 rpm indicated (again, I assume this is 4k rpm). Motor power seemed to hover around 100-150w for the most part. Average speed on this ride was down by 1.5mph overall, and max was down by 1mph as well. However, temps were never an issue and they stayed around 135-140 degrees for pretty much the entire ride. The motor casing was warm to the touch but not hot.

This is obviously a pretty huge improvement and it points to my high cadence being the problem. With the motor in it's current config, It will start to gradually heat up if I run it at 200w nominal and a cadence that keeps the motor rpm ~ 4,000rpm. However it's not like an out of control diesel engine where it just keeps getting hotter and hotter, even with the assist level at 1/2. It seems that the driver for the heat up truly is the cadence, combined with an assist level that keeps the motor around 200-250w. At the end of my ride this morning, I turned the assist level up, but kept my cadence slow and it does seem to heat up much slower then it was previously with a low assist level and a higher cadence.

So... I think part of the problem has been remedied in that, I just need to spin the bike slower when I'm on this e-bike. Overall, that's fine because I'm comfortable at a wide range of cadences being a mountain biker. I'm going to do a few more rides and then take the motor apart to do the temperature mods. Hopefully, it's just a matter of slowing things down...

Question: If I disable Field Weakening will that put the motor back in it's oem 90rpm cadence limit? If so, what is the effective max RPM that the motor is cutting out at so I can get an idea of what sort of gearing/cadence that would leave me with?*

*Sorry if the motor rpm, information is some where and I missed it. I've seen plenty in this thread about the cadence, but I don't quite remember (or I have never seen them) the gearing conversions as to what motor rpm that equates to.
I did suspect your cadence might be the problem - the clue was the red numbers :)

I'm not sure there is a 'cadence limit' as such but maybe I've missed that in the code - but I do believe that the field weakening helps with higher cadences.

Are you still at 48v? I think someone maybe mentioned previously - the best way to get an increase in cadence is to increase the voltage - if you have a standard 48v battery - consider upgrading to 52v. I've run the bike at just under 60v using a DC booster coupled to a 48v battery and it runs great - but whilst I'm a reasonable spinner I don't maintain the same cadences as you.
Well... having said I never have an issue with temps - today I went out for a short ride on my new fsr conversion - and I forgot to enable the temp sensor in config - and when I got home I just felt the motor to see how warm it was and it was scalding hot! When I connected the app - was showing 150c... :(

I wasn't climbing hills - just trail riding and a bit on roads. There is quite a lot more drag than my other bike since the fsr has nobbly tyres running at a lower pressure and such but I wasn't expecting such a hot motor...

I need to do a few more runs - with the app connected so I get a bit more feedback as to what might be going on...

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pwd   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pwd » May 06 2021 9:48am

Just wondering if anyone has used the "C3" display for the TSDZ2. As an option from here:
https://eunorau-ebike.com/products/48v5 ... dc9e&_ss=r

I couldn't find any info on it or if it will work with the open source firmware.
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Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » May 06 2021 10:19am

pwd wrote:
May 06 2021 9:48am
... the "C3" display for the TSDZ2. ....
... if it will work with the open source firmware.
If this C3 display works with stock FW and same Tsdz2 protocol as other stock displays, there is a very good chance it works with OSF for stock displays too. (this was the case with specific SW102 for Tsdz2 too)
Only thing is uncertain how the display deals with the options, because this works with the light button and certain error codes.
But I think this will also no problem, because button switch will work.
Last edited by Elinx on May 06 2021 12:34pm, edited 4 times in total.

Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » May 06 2021 10:20am

double

twiersum   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by twiersum » May 07 2021 5:46pm

I am running 16s since I am mtb and run climbing gears. I turned my amps down and only run only level 1 or 2 (30 & 60). I run fine on Maroqs v3.7 but on the newest version of the programmer it works for 5 sec and then gives me e08 which I believe is over voltage.

The newest version seems smoother on my wifes bike running 12s so I'd like to make it work on mine. Anyone have any idea how to program for higher volts?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » May 08 2021 1:04am

twiersum wrote:
May 07 2021 5:46pm
... it works for 5 sec and then gives me e08 which I believe is over voltage.

The newest version ....
No, it is the speed sensor.
See the display manual of v0.20.1C

E08 - ERROR_SPEED_SENSOR
Faulty speed sensor or magnet too far away.


There should be no problem to run the motor on a higher Voltage, if you set the right cell number and cutoff Voltage in the first tab (basic settings) of the configurator.

The new versions are far more improved and the settings of mbrusa's versions are not (always) the same as with marcoq's version.
With mbrusa's version it is also possible to configure some settings afterwards with the display button's.
It is advised to read the manuals that come with his OSF versions.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 08 2021 1:34pm

Recently I decided to build a very small TSDZ2 EBike wireless controller, I am proud of the final result :-)

That small box will be installed / fixed to the frame very near where the TSDZ2 connector ends. I want a clean and small TSDZ2 installation / electrification, that is why I am not even installing the speed sensor and use instead the speed calculated by the GPS.
Now I need to put some translucent tape to cover the button and LED holes. I will also fill the box with silicone, to make it very robust and water prof :-)

Image

Image

Image
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

dahu33   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dahu33 » May 08 2021 6:44pm

I need help! I'm having an issue with my brand new TSDZ2 kit. I've just finished to wire-up the SW102 display with the controller and flashed everything with the latest firmware v1.1.1. Because the bicycle is not fully assembled yet, I went to try the motor with the virtual throttle (brilliant feature BTW). However, the motor is not running at all and I cannot figure out why.

What could be the root cause of this issue and what can I do to troubleshoot it? I would happilly add it to the FAQ in the wiki afterwards. Thanks!

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 08 2021 8:49pm

dahu33 wrote:
May 08 2021 6:44pm
I need help! I'm having an issue with my brand new TSDZ2 kit. I've just finished to wire-up the SW102 display with the controller and flashed everything with the latest firmware v1.1.1. Because the bicycle is not fully assembled yet, I went to try the motor with the virtual throttle (brilliant feature BTW). However, the motor is not running at all and I cannot figure out why.

What could be the root cause of this issue and what can I do to troubleshoot it? I would happilly add it to the FAQ in the wiki afterwards. Thanks!
Maybe a bad configuration like battery low voltage. Also make sure you are in in assist level higher than 0.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

dahu33   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dahu33 » May 10 2021 8:20am

casainho wrote:
May 08 2021 8:49pm
dahu33 wrote:
May 08 2021 6:44pm
I need help! I'm having an issue with my brand new TSDZ2 kit. I've just finished to wire-up the SW102 display with the controller and flashed everything with the latest firmware v1.1.1. Because the bicycle is not fully assembled yet, I went to try the motor with the virtual throttle (brilliant feature BTW). However, the motor is not running at all and I cannot figure out why.

What could be the root cause of this issue and what can I do to troubleshoot it? I would happilly add it to the FAQ in the wiki afterwards. Thanks!
Maybe a bad configuration like battery low voltage. Also make sure you are in in assist level higher than 0.
Indeed, my bad, the battery low voltage setting was incorrect. Thanks for the quick and accurate diagnostic! I've added a "Bad configuration" section in the FAQ for dumb people like me :)

https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ ... figuration

Atomykatt   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Atomykatt » May 11 2021 12:46am

Does anyone know what the max amp valule or wattage for the lights is? I know it's 6V, but I can't seem to make some (2) LED's power on at full blast neither by using step-downs rated for 2A or by directly connecting.

Nick2   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Nick2 » May 11 2021 9:43am

I believe that administrator should lock this topic.
There are like 15 or 20 paralel discussions fighting for the same space, absolutely impossible to follow.
Why is it so difficult to start the new topic when you have something different to discuss?

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ebbsocalMTB   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ebbsocalMTB » May 11 2021 9:54am

Nick2 wrote:
May 11 2021 9:43am
I believe that administrator should lock this topic.
There are like 15 or 20 paralel discussions fighting for the same space, absolutely impossible to follow.
Why is it so difficult to start the new topic when you have something different to discuss?
Image
Welcome to forums... This is a general thread about this motor, which is a good consolidated places for meandering discussion about the motor and people's build with it. I say keep the status quo and keep this thread going. If you need specific info, use the "site:endless-sphere.com" trigger in google.

Regarding my personal journey with this motor. I've had a few rides and I must say, that the motor is much, much happier turning over in the 4k rpm range compared to the near 5k range that my normal cadence was putting this thing at.

I've been busy as hell... but I've got all the parts/pieces to complete all of the thermal capacity modifications. David from Eco-ebike has been just amazing to deal with. Truly, I can't say enough about his customer service and commitment to working through issues and after sales support. He's been super helpful and understanding and I've got some very high grade thermal putty that he sent me to fill the void between the motor and the housing. I'm going to combine that with one of the silent thunder ordinance shim plates and some mx4 paste as well as some thermal pads.

I'm going to try and carve out some time this weekend to tear into the motor and make the changes. I think this is going to be the last missing piece that is going to get this motor to right where I want it.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Doohickey » May 11 2021 12:27pm

Atomykatt wrote:
May 11 2021 12:46am
Does anyone know what the max amp valule or wattage for the lights is? I know it's 6V, but I can't seem to make some (2) LED's power on at full blast neither by using step-downs rated for 2A or by directly connecting.
IIRC the 6v lights output is 500ma to 800ma max. So not enough for powerful lights, if you want big lights, you need a relay or Mosfet (controlled by the lights output), which then switches bigger lights than run directly off the battery voltage. There is a video for installing that inside the motor casing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuHUcbF1ClE

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 12 2021 4:38am

Finally I have no wires crossing the frame as also no wires on the handle bar (except for the brake sensors)!!

I have new pictures of installation TSDZ2 EBike wireless controller on my ebike:

I did fill be box with translucid silicone and inserted the board - my objective is to have a robust and water prof device:
Image

After 24 hours waiting for silicone to dry. I did fully cover the holes with the silicone and it works very well to see the LED light and also to be able to click on the button as the silicone is flexible:
Image

Checking to see if it still works:
Image

Final instalation on the frame of my EBike:
Image
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Atomykatt » May 13 2021 2:58am

Doohickey wrote:
May 11 2021 12:27pm
IIRC the 6v lights output is 500ma to 800ma max. So not enough for powerful lights, if you want big lights, you need a relay or Mosfet (controlled by the lights output), which then switches bigger lights than run directly off the battery voltage. There is a video for installing that inside the motor casing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuHUcbF1ClE
Thanks, @Doohickey, very nice video. Will definitely go that route, but with a 3d printed case probably as I don't really like the idea of drilling the motor case :shock:

A.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » May 13 2021 5:08am

I'm about to update from v0.6.5 to 1.1.0 and I was wondering if I need to reset the settings before/after updating or if I can leave them as is.

Also, do I want to flash v1.1.0 or v1.1.1 on the motor (both are in the 1.1.0 release)?

And should I go from 0.6.5 directly to 1.1.0, or should I upgrade to every version in-between until I get to 1.1.0?

My steps are going to be:

- Flash display (850C) from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0
- Check that it turns on etc without connecting it back to the motor (I am powering it from a power booster board, not from the battery)
- Flash the motor from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0 (1.1.1?)
- Connect the display to the motor and check if it works

Anything else I should be doing or are these steps ok?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by beemac » May 13 2021 1:06pm

skestans wrote:
May 13 2021 5:08am
I'm about to update from v0.6.5 to 1.1.0 and I was wondering if I need to reset the settings before/after updating or if I can leave them as is.

Also, do I want to flash v1.1.0 or v1.1.1 on the motor (both are in the 1.1.0 release)?

And should I go from 0.6.5 directly to 1.1.0, or should I upgrade to every version in-between until I get to 1.1.0?

My steps are going to be:

- Flash display (850C) from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0
- Check that it turns on etc without connecting it back to the motor (I am powering it from a power booster board, not from the battery)
- Flash the motor from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0 (1.1.1?)
- Connect the display to the motor and check if it works

Anything else I should be doing or are these steps ok?
For the motor you should use 1.1.1 - no need to go via 1.1.0. @casainho we should remove 1.1.0 really don't you think?

Not sure about the settings question - it's likely you'll need to reconfigure. I'd also recommend sure you keep the wheel off the ground when flashing the motor as I've had issues with motor starting when moving between versions when developing.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » May 13 2021 1:21pm

beemac wrote:
May 13 2021 1:06pm
skestans wrote:
May 13 2021 5:08am
I'm about to update from v0.6.5 to 1.1.0 and I was wondering if I need to reset the settings before/after updating or if I can leave them as is.

Also, do I want to flash v1.1.0 or v1.1.1 on the motor (both are in the 1.1.0 release)?

And should I go from 0.6.5 directly to 1.1.0, or should I upgrade to every version in-between until I get to 1.1.0?

My steps are going to be:

- Flash display (850C) from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0
- Check that it turns on etc without connecting it back to the motor (I am powering it from a power booster board, not from the battery)
- Flash the motor from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0 (1.1.1?)
- Connect the display to the motor and check if it works

Anything else I should be doing or are these steps ok?
For the motor you should use 1.1.1 - no need to go via 1.1.0. @casainho we should remove 1.1.0 really don't you think?

Not sure about the settings question - it's likely you'll need to reconfigure. I'd also recommend sure you keep the wheel off the ground when flashing the motor as I've had issues with motor starting when moving between versions when developing.
Thanks. It ended up wiping my settings anyway so no need to reset before flashing.

The wiki says this about startup boost: "WARNING: do not enable/use BOOST feature because it is currently buggy." -- is this still current or is the warning not relevant anymore? What is buggy about it?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 13 2021 1:26pm

For the ones that want to upgrade to the new better TSDZ2 motor controller V2, you will need to buy the programmer J-Link. This costs about 4€ on Ebay, Aliexpress, etc, but can take like 4 or 6 weeks to arrive, so, you can now safely buy it right now and maybe in 1 or 2 months we will have the firmware ready!

I tested and documented the connections -- see here the full details: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ ... develop.md

Image
beemac wrote:
May 13 2021 1:06pm
@casainho we should remove 1.1.0 really don't you think?
Done.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by beemac » May 13 2021 1:28pm

skestans wrote:
May 13 2021 1:21pm
beemac wrote:
May 13 2021 1:06pm
skestans wrote:
May 13 2021 5:08am
I'm about to update from v0.6.5 to 1.1.0 and I was wondering if I need to reset the settings before/after updating or if I can leave them as is.

Also, do I want to flash v1.1.0 or v1.1.1 on the motor (both are in the 1.1.0 release)?

And should I go from 0.6.5 directly to 1.1.0, or should I upgrade to every version in-between until I get to 1.1.0?

My steps are going to be:

- Flash display (850C) from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0
- Check that it turns on etc without connecting it back to the motor (I am powering it from a power booster board, not from the battery)
- Flash the motor from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0 (1.1.1?)
- Connect the display to the motor and check if it works

Anything else I should be doing or are these steps ok?
For the motor you should use 1.1.1 - no need to go via 1.1.0. @casainho we should remove 1.1.0 really don't you think?

Not sure about the settings question - it's likely you'll need to reconfigure. I'd also recommend sure you keep the wheel off the ground when flashing the motor as I've had issues with motor starting when moving between versions when developing.
Thanks. It ended up wiping my settings anyway so no need to reset before flashing.

The wiki says this about startup boost: "WARNING: do not enable/use BOOST feature because it is currently buggy." -- is this still current or is the warning not relevant anymore? What is buggy about it?
I'm not sure - there are people using it but it's not something i've used mainly due to that warning - but it is something on my (long) list to port to the wireless controller at which point I'll need to know what the bugs are in order to hopefully fix...

Search on the thread - i'm sure i've seen recommended settings for boost posted so there must be people using it ok.

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