Bafang M500/M600 thread

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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tsellers   1 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Feb 11 2020 3:32pm

That's the video I watched before I decided to use a 52V battery. However, the one difference for the Frey I have, I have to adjust the charger down to be below 58V, as my bike will not power up if it is above 58V. Accordingly, I set mine to disconnect at 57.4V.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Feb 11 2020 4:42pm

Great news that a few users are having success with a 14 s 52v packs. Please keep us posted as time goes on as to how the controller lasts with the higher voltage running through it. When these drives were first released there was a lot of miss information regarding the higher voltage and if the mosfats could take it. Bafang told me directly not to run a 52 volt pack through my M600 but also did not explain what would be the weak link if one ran the extra voltage through the motor, my guess is they just did not want any extra motor failures. A 14s pack in my mind would be so much better than the 48v system, I think you would get more speed out of each gear so in effect bigger jumps between your gear selections giving a bike that would need less shifting and of course more overall get up and go.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Feb 11 2020 5:26pm

I have noticed a difference with the 52V pack to the extent that it is the 'daily driver' pack. Not just with speed, but there is an overall better feel to it.

I also decided to give a 52V pack a try when I read a post in some other forum from someone that looked at the ratings on the MOSFET's that he found in an M600 controller. I seem to recall something to the effect that for the most part, MOSFET's that are used for 48V usually have a rating that takes them somewhere into the 60's or 70's. That seemed reasonable when I recalled that the controllers for my old Crystalyte Hubs were rated for something like 48-72V.

As noted, I anticipate one potential issue with setting the shutoff voltage to 57.4 might be the way the BMS handles the balance charging. But given the increase in number of charge cycles from that lower voltage, I'm prepared to manually monitor the cells and manually balance charge them if necessary.

I guess next summer will be the true test, at the moment I only have put about 1000 Km's on that motor (if you don't count the 460km's that were on the supposed brand new motor as reported by the controller the very first time I powered it up), and, with winter riding in snow and ice, most of them have not been pulling large current loads for extended periods.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by robocam » Feb 13 2020 3:09am

Luna Cycle has developed a quiet gear for the M600. Sounds as quiet if not quieter than the BBSHD under load. I ordered one yesterday, so I'll report my findings.

https://lunacycle.com/blog/luna-develop ... fang-m600/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf78B2H ... e=emb_logo

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Feb 13 2020 6:22am

ilegal wrote:
Dec 27 2019 2:36pm
Image

152mm, like my old BBSHD. We´ll see how it goes this weekend.
Hi illegal, where did you find these and how are they working out?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Feb 15 2020 1:15am

Anyone have the skinny on compatible M600 displays? My impression from reading the Luna support thread for the X1 is the DP C240 was the only compatible display.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kn ... o-fs-ebike
Display is a special display that works only with this bike, no other display will work for it. It uses CAN communication so it will not work with any BBSxx / Ultra series display.
However, I've seen an alternate display on alibaba referred to as DPC-23 or DP 230.CAN:

Image

Also, FLX has a larger color display (appears to be a DPC-18 variant with CAN communication) referred to as "G3 Special Edition Display" but specs say it's only compatible with their special edition bikes.

https://flx.bike/products/lcd-display-dz-multi

There are also specific versions of the DPC240 tied to serial number and/or class. Seems like display compatibility is tied to firmware? I suppose it's also possible the display feeds the controller some pre-programmed settings like max speed?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by d.rebocho.mateus » Feb 29 2020 10:57am

JBC wrote:Hi, I have a bike built with the Bafang M600. I have only one short test run, everything seems to be functional, enough power.
But I want to install battery-powered lighting. The display shows the lights on - so I assume that the lights can be powered from the motor controller.
Does anyone know what a connector / pin is?
Or better, if someone had the whole wiring diagram.
Hello JBC.

I saw your bike and i was considering build one using the same frame. Can your share your oppinion about your build?
Where did you buy your frame? Did you buy the battery as a pack with the frame?

Best regards

Enviado do meu Mi 9 SE através do Tapatalk


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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by ilegal » Mar 03 2020 2:08pm

Tom wrote:
Feb 13 2020 6:22am
ilegal wrote:
Dec 27 2019 2:36pm
Image

152mm, like my old BBSHD. We´ll see how it goes this weekend.
Hi illegal, where did you find these and how are they working out?
https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/bicyc ... ck-606710/
https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/bicyc ... ck-606711/

They work great, many less bottom hits. I had them on my previous BBSHD, so I´m used to them.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Mar 03 2020 5:28pm

Thanks Illegal for posting this info on the crank arms.

Ouch, that web site says 38 bucks to ship to USA. I did not bother to add the second arm to the cart after seeing the high shipping cost. I will try my luck end of March when I am back at my shop and re drill and re tap to get an effective 160mm or so length out of my original arms sent with the motor. Good to know if something goes wrong I can order from these guys however.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Kepler » Apr 05 2020 2:28am

Just wondering if anyone has done the new Luna Silent Drive gear upgrade yet.

I did the upgrade today. Was going to do a video on it but the actual gear replacement is very straight forward with the secondary reduction gears just popping out by hand once you had the drive apart as shown in my teardown video.

Unfortunately it is raining today so I cant test ride the bike to compare the sound. However if you are a little reluctant to tackle the upgrade yourself, dont worry, it really is quite straight forward to do with no special tools required except for a Torx driver set and the ability to remove your chainring from the drive.
Current Rides

Lightest true ebike on the planet: ON ROAD viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74269
eBoost on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eboost/200306283342024/

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Troyp » Apr 07 2020 11:50am

Hi guys I see many people doing the speed sensor hack on shimano and bosch units is it possible to do this to the m600 as well? Does it pickup speed from the wheel? This should be super easy to do if its the case?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Apr 07 2020 12:11pm

It will take a bit of creative engineering. The magnet is just on one of the spokes, but the transducer is mounted in a stanchion that has been welded onto the chainstay.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Deafcat » Apr 07 2020 12:38pm

Typically the easiest way to "hack" a wheel speed sensor where the control parameter for wheel diameter is user-adjustable, is to say the wheel is smaller than it really is.

If that parameter is not user adjustable, that is pretty lame

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Apr 07 2020 1:45pm

MAGNET ON CRANK ARM AND SENSOR SOMEWHERE TO MEET ITS PATH OF TRAVEL....not pretty but should work, oddometer of course will be all wacky but small price to pay for the benifits I guess

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Troyp » Apr 07 2020 3:29pm

Deafcat wrote:
Apr 07 2020 12:38pm
Typically the easiest way to "hack" a wheel speed sensor where the control parameter for wheel diameter is user-adjustable, is to say the wheel is smaller than it really is.

If that parameter is not user adjustable, that is pretty lame
Hey it's almost free and if it gives you 5-10 mph that's definitely worth it to me I think the bike would be awesome if it goes 30-35 mph with assist.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Deafcat » Apr 07 2020 6:23pm

Troyp wrote:
Apr 07 2020 3:29pm
Deafcat wrote:
Apr 07 2020 12:38pm
Typically the easiest way to "hack" a wheel speed sensor where the control parameter for wheel diameter is user-adjustable, is to say the wheel is smaller than it really is.

If that parameter is not user adjustable, that is pretty lame
Hey it's almost free and if it gives you 5-10 mph that's definitely worth it to me I think the bike would be awesome if it goes 30-35 mph with assist.
Yep I agree, if that isn't enough speed, then you bought the wrong bike (Ultra is the obvious choice for mid-drive, high power, torque-sensor option)

The alternative of course is ditching the M600 motor control and using something else entirely to really push it!

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Troyp » Apr 07 2020 7:50pm

Deafcat wrote:
Apr 07 2020 6:23pm
Troyp wrote:
Apr 07 2020 3:29pm
Deafcat wrote:
Apr 07 2020 12:38pm
Typically the easiest way to "hack" a wheel speed sensor where the control parameter for wheel diameter is user-adjustable, is to say the wheel is smaller than it really is.

If that parameter is not user adjustable, that is pretty lame
Hey it's almost free and if it gives you 5-10 mph that's definitely worth it to me I think the bike would be awesome if it goes 30-35 mph with assist.
Yep I agree, if that isn't enough speed, then you bought the wrong bike (Ultra is the obvious choice for mid-drive, high power, torque-sensor option)

The alternative of course is ditching the M600 motor control and using something else entirely to really push it!
I thought about the ultra but the 600 is the sweet spot for power/weight ultra is just too heavy. I want a light enduro/mountain bike and i'd be super happy on the streets with it too if it went 30-35mph with little effort. I will make a log am starting my build shortly and will try this.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Deafcat » Apr 08 2020 1:25pm

I don't think you're ever going to see 30-35 MPH with the M600 with a drivetrain even remotely suited to MTB, but it's definitely the right weight for eMTB motor (still, only 3.3lb lighter than Ultra, you could achieve similar weight reduction elsewhere in wheel-build, choice of battery, fork selection, hardtail versus FS).

For road speed and performance the Ultra is really ideal, that's what I use mine for mostly. top speed is about 65 Km/h with a 50T chainring (this is not a good chainring for MTB, but it's ideal for road speed). Higher top speeds need those big rings and lots of extra wattage... Not to say this is impossible with the M600, but you'd have to trade almost all offroad capability to get it.

Then again if an aftermarket controller is pushing the M600 up into the 1.7-2kW output range, it's a fair match against a stock Ultra motor (in favor of M600 due to less weight, in favor of Ultra for long term motor lifespan)

edit: one further concern for M600 top speeds, is the motors RPM output... It appears to be much lower than the G510 Ultra. More data needed, can anyone confirm this for me?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Troyp » Apr 08 2020 3:57pm

Deafcat wrote:
Apr 08 2020 1:25pm
I don't think you're ever going to see 30-35 MPH with the M600 with a drivetrain even remotely suited to MTB, but it's definitely the right weight for eMTB motor (still, only 3.3lb lighter than Ultra, you could achieve similar weight reduction elsewhere in wheel-build, choice of battery, fork selection, hardtail versus FS).

For road speed and performance the Ultra is really ideal, that's what I use mine for mostly. top speed is about 65 Km/h with a 50T chainring (this is not a good chainring for MTB, but it's ideal for road speed). Higher top speeds need those big rings and lots of extra wattage... Not to say this is impossible with the M600, but you'd have to trade almost all offroad capability to get it.

Then again if an aftermarket controller is pushing the M600 up into the 1.7-2kW output range, it's a fair match against a stock Ultra motor (in favor of M600 due to less weight, in favor of Ultra for long term motor lifespan)

edit: one further concern for M600 top speeds, is the motors RPM output... It appears to be much lower than the G510 Ultra. More data needed, can anyone confirm this for me?
I had no idea that it's only 3.3 lbs lighter than the ultra. In that case if you can get the luna Ultra made in magnesium it would be awesome. It comes in at around 15lbs no idea what the m600 weighs https://lunacycle.com/bafang-ultra-magn ... mid-drive/

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Troyp » Apr 08 2020 4:02pm

Troyp wrote:
Apr 08 2020 3:57pm
Deafcat wrote:
Apr 08 2020 1:25pm
I don't think you're ever going to see 30-35 MPH with the M600 with a drivetrain even remotely suited to MTB, but it's definitely the right weight for eMTB motor (still, only 3.3lb lighter than Ultra, you could achieve similar weight reduction elsewhere in wheel-build, choice of battery, fork selection, hardtail versus FS).

For road speed and performance the Ultra is really ideal, that's what I use mine for mostly. top speed is about 65 Km/h with a 50T chainring (this is not a good chainring for MTB, but it's ideal for road speed). Higher top speeds need those big rings and lots of extra wattage... Not to say this is impossible with the M600, but you'd have to trade almost all offroad capability to get it.

Then again if an aftermarket controller is pushing the M600 up into the 1.7-2kW output range, it's a fair match against a stock Ultra motor (in favor of M600 due to less weight, in favor of Ultra for long term motor lifespan)

edit: one further concern for M600 top speeds, is the motors RPM output... It appears to be much lower than the G510 Ultra. More data needed, can anyone confirm this for me?
I had no idea that it's only 3.3 lbs lighter than the ultra. In that case if you can get the luna Ultra made in magnesium it would be awesome. It comes in at around 15lbs no idea what the m600 weighs https://lunacycle.com/bafang-ultra-magn ... mid-drive/
edit - Nvm just checked the m600 is a 8 Lb motor that's a huge difference given that Luna says their motor is 15lbs in mag wonder how much a regular one weighs?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Deafcat » Apr 09 2020 4:02pm

All Ultra motors in current production are magnesium, this is not unique to Lunacycle.

I'll check the weight on an ultra motor when I get a chance with a scale, last I checked they were under 12 pounds not 15... But that doesn't include the additional weight of the frame motor bracket (neither does the M600 by the way)

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Apr 09 2020 5:17pm

Luna's so called "magnesium" version is 15 pounds:

https://lunacycle.com/bafang-ultra-magn ... mid-drive/

Other sellers indicate 6.8kg (15 pounds) as well for the Ultra so I believe you are correct that they all are "magnesium".

https://pirez.com.au/bafang-ultra-kit/

The M600 is 3.7kg motor weight per bafang's website (I couldn't find the Ultra for comparison so assuming the above are correct):

https://www.bafang-e.com/en/products/?t ... D=Products

That's roughly a 3.1kg (7 pound) difference.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Troyp » Apr 09 2020 6:16pm

Ahh if they made the m600 in magnesium that would be the ticket! :bigthumb:

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Apr 09 2020 6:24pm

Weight is fine, M600 just needs a quiet gear by default and user programming, ideally with app.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by robocam » Apr 10 2020 1:33am

My Frey AM1000 (Ultra) weighs 12 lbs more than my Luna Cycle X1 (M600). The X1 definitely feels lighter when lifting it and riding it. When I put a 52V battery in my otherwise stock X1, it went 28 MPH, 3 MPH faster. When I put a 42T chainring on it (definitely not too big for mountain-biking, in fact I much prefer it over the stock 32, and I only ride single-track) it went 30 MPH at 48V, so I think 33 MPH is not out-of-the-question at 52V. If you use the smallest gear in the cassette (on the X1, that gear is locked out stock), you might even hit 35 MPH.

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