Bafang M500/M600 thread

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
npcspellen   1 µW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by npcspellen » Sep 16 2021 3:36am

CiDi wrote:
Nov 03 2020 4:08am
To configure the Bafang M500 / M600 motor without using the BESST programmer, you can use this interface.

Link interface USB to CAN on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-Converter- ... 709&sr=8-2

Link cables Bafang HMI M500/M600 on e-bike-technologies:
https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/inde ... 5-f-detail
https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/inde ... 5-f-detail

Below are the software and the instructions for configuration and use.
I have bought the set! I am going to try to change the speed limit on my bafang m420 with dpc18 now. But 1 question. I only want to increase max speed. So i would only have to change the hex for the speed. Or do i also need to change the other 2? Why would i need to change the other 2?

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Tomblarom   10 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tomblarom » Sep 16 2021 9:12am

Twistgripper wrote:
Sep 12 2021 4:14pm
How hard would it be to make out of aluminum plate do you think?
Thanks! Working on it. The main challenge I'm facing, is to make it compatible for any shimano E6100/E7000/E8000 compatible frame. I use 3D-printing for demo and testing, but it's too soft and I can't realistically check tolerances.. The final plates are obviously made out of 3mm aluminum. Did this already for Bosch Gen 2/3 to Bafang M620 which worked phenomenal. Already selling as a kit.

Already got a few bigger customers, that are highly interested, since they have real opportunities to use shimano's frames!

mroupi   100 µW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by mroupi » Sep 20 2021 11:47am

npcspellen wrote:
Sep 16 2021 3:36am
CiDi wrote:
Nov 03 2020 4:08am
To configure the Bafang M500 / M600 motor without using the BESST programmer, you can use this interface.

Link interface USB to CAN on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-Converter- ... 709&sr=8-2

Link cables Bafang HMI M500/M600 on e-bike-technologies:
https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/inde ... 5-f-detail
https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/inde ... 5-f-detail

Below are the software and the instructions for configuration and use.
I have bought the set! I am going to try to change the speed limit on my bafang m420 with dpc18 now. But 1 question. I only want to increase max speed. So i would only have to change the hex for the speed. Or do i also need to change the other 2? Why would i need to change the other 2?
Done on my M420 canbus with Dpc18 . Speed is set to 60kmh now

add: I've succed to change speed limit too on a M420 motor with DPC 10 can Displauy
Last edited by mroupi on Sep 24 2021 7:24am, edited 1 time in total.
Cortina U4 / bafang M420 / DPC18 canbus unlocked

amidexe   1 µW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by amidexe » Sep 21 2021 12:23pm

Hello, team!

I have Bafang M600 36v 500w locked from factory on 45km/h, wheel 27inch 2300mm. Manufactured in 2019 or maybe early.
Spent hours trying to change maximum speed to 60km/h ( tried 25km/h etc) with no luck. Packets sent, received and nothing change in the information menu.
Maybe someone in this topic can help to investigate this case.

Image

Log from Innomaker software https://pastebin.com/CAiYGhF1

Also changed motor-display cable to another one with throttle and this modification really cool, throttle works great in dirt :D .
Is it a good idea to buy BESST and try to update firmware, for better perfomance or maybe with newer firmware CAN modification will work ?

ornias   10 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by ornias » Sep 23 2021 11:58am

Kaarthi wrote:
Aug 14 2021 2:34pm
ornias wrote:
Jul 20 2021 6:01am
casainho wrote:
Jul 20 2021 5:20am
ornias wrote:
Jul 19 2021 2:23pm


Luna never said they replaced the controller with their own controller for the M600, considering it's still fully BESST compatible and no one completely reverse engineered the CANBUS protocol yet, this is highly unlikely.

Considering they stated in the past they needed a hardware change,a firmware flash and software (BESST) to connect it to the motor unit, I expect they execute a shuntmod and adapting the assistence curve in the firmware accordingly for at least the 1500W version. Because that's all that would be needed, as technically the controller is already capable of handling 30A*48V.

All things considered, it would be nicer if Luna Cycles started to embrace opensource and DIY and share which knowhow they have about the motors and which procedures they follow to modify theirs. We donnot need any proprietary software at this stage, we mostly just need to start to learn how the product behaves.

On a completely different note:
It seems a norwegian company got BAFANG to write custom firmware for the M600 to make them EU road legal, called the M600S:
If ANYONE could get their hands on a firmware file, that would be absolutely golden.
The best would be to write our own OpenSource firmware!! But first we need to find a way to source relatively cheap the original motor controller.
Agreed 100%... If we could dump complete firmware and reflash it, that would be easier and less DMCA prone than reverse enginering Bafangs firmware files.

Anyway, motor controllers are available here for relatively cheap:
https://flx.bike/collections/replacemen ... 7163752584

As far as I can find out (because not one has posted high res overview pictures of the controller yet), it looks to be an STM32 based board.
I am developing a completely custom firmware for this motor, if anyone confirm me that whether this is running in sensor or sensorless motor control, it would be helpful. Because I am not seeing any hall sensor for position measurement in this motor. And signals of torque sensor also I want to know

I smell BS-troll.
Those questions are super basic and quite readily known to anyone looking at the motor from a design/dev perspective.

Jil   100 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Jil » Oct 10 2021 4:47am

Hi,
I haven’t read the whole topic, so perhaps this question has already been answered !
Is the M500 controller fully tuneable via USB link and software, like on the BBS ?
I mean, power level, etc… ?
My bike : Surly "eKrampus" with GMAC 8T, Phaserunner and 20 Ah/52 V Li-ion battery.

mirkoser100   10 mW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by mirkoser100 » Oct 10 2021 4:56am

Short answer: No,not possible


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Animalector   10 kW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Oct 10 2021 5:35am

Another short answer... You don't really need to.

Jil   100 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Jil » Oct 12 2021 1:56pm

Thanks !
Another short question : is it possible to use home-made or third-party batteries with the M500-M600 series ? No software protection like on Bosch systems ?
My bike : Surly "eKrampus" with GMAC 8T, Phaserunner and 20 Ah/52 V Li-ion battery.

Animalector   10 kW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Oct 12 2021 2:42pm

They do have software integration but I'm pretty sure you can build your own battery should you choose. Kepler did. Among others.

Waynemarlow   10 kW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Waynemarlow » Oct 12 2021 4:48pm

You can build your own batteries, simply plug & play using the XT60 connector. What you won't have is some of the more detailed battery management that comes on some Bafang displays.

https://www.emtbforums.com/community/th ... e10.19530/

Jil   100 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Jil » Oct 12 2021 11:18pm

Good news :) Thanks !

Do you think that Bafang will stand by this policy of keeping its motors open to other batteries, unlike Bosch and Shimano ?
My bike : Surly "eKrampus" with GMAC 8T, Phaserunner and 20 Ah/52 V Li-ion battery.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Waynemarlow » Oct 13 2021 5:10am

Not sure they can, particulalry in the motors they supply to Europe. The M500 and the new M510 which is about to be released seems as though the likes of the speed and power settings are being firmly locked down and its only a matter of time before those settings are factory encrypted to prevent other than the approved factory dealers, changing them.

Pity as both Shimano and Bosch have excellent suites of software to alter virtually all other settings and Bafang now are almost a generation behind in the scope of motor management. The downside to those suites of software is the likes of Blevo has been sidelined with no chance of the user altering anything other than what Bosch or Shimano want you to change.

The speed restriction certainly is a problem as a good analogue rider is faster on all but the steeper hills.

Jil   100 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Jil » Oct 13 2021 6:47am

When you say that M500/510 are firmly locked, do you mean that only speed limit and power cannot be modified ? But what about the wheel size ?

For me, it’s not an issue as I don’t intend to use this motor above 25 kph, but I of course need to be able to change the size of the wheel in the setup, so that the speed limit is the good one, as well as the speed data.

What I have in mind is to create a small brand of ebikes with minimal electrical assistance (so the 250 W nominal/25 kph european limit is not an issue), dedicated to travel and adapted to all terrains, including the most hilly places. And with no proprietary batteries. And I have the feeling that, for central motors, it will be possible only with Bafang, not the other main brands (Brose, Yamaha, Shimano, Bosch).
My bike : Surly "eKrampus" with GMAC 8T, Phaserunner and 20 Ah/52 V Li-ion battery.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Waynemarlow » Oct 13 2021 10:01am

The Brose and the likes are all up and around 800 watts for a reason, people like that sort of power. Even Specialised and others using the Fazua motor are pushing 450W's on their road bikes. Remember the first 100W's or so is just compensating the mechanicals and additional weight.

If you are convinced you only want max 250W's then go the in seat tube motor arrangements such as the Vivax but even that motor which has been around a long time, has gone out of business.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Jil » Oct 13 2021 3:09pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Oct 13 2021 10:01am
Remember the first 100W's or so is just compensating the mechanicals and additional weight.
100 watts of electric power is already compensating much more than drag and weight due to the motor and battery.

Grin estimates that the GMAC (no freewheel) has a drag around 20-30 watts at usual speed, you can estimate that on a motor with freewheel it’s less than 10 watts.
As for the additional weight, I have made the calculation on Grin’s motor simulator, 10 kg more represents around 10 watts at reasonnable speed on steep hills. So, finally, on a motor with inner freewheel, the power needed to compensate the additional weight and drag is 20-30 watts only.

I have tested my GMAC yesterday and today with very low power (electrical assist between 30 and 50% of my pedaling power), I felt very clearly the electrical assistance (100 watts when I put 200-250 watts of human power), making the ride more enjoyable than without motor, and keeping the consumption very low (around 4 Wh/km).
That’s another way to use ebike, which I’m not really used to (the former version of my GMAC was mainly for fast commuting at 1000-1500 watts) but which I enjoy also.
My bike : Surly "eKrampus" with GMAC 8T, Phaserunner and 20 Ah/52 V Li-ion battery.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Waynemarlow » Oct 14 2021 11:05am

Jil wrote:
Oct 13 2021 3:09pm
Waynemarlow wrote:
Oct 13 2021 10:01am
Remember the first 100W's or so is just compensating the mechanicals and additional weight.
100 watts of electric power is already compensating much more than drag and weight due to the motor and battery.

Grin estimates that the GMAC (no freewheel) has a drag around 20-30 watts at usual speed, you can estimate that on a motor with freewheel it’s less than 10 watts.
As for the additional weight, I have made the calculation on Grin’s motor simulator, 10 kg more represents around 10 watts at reasonnable speed on steep hills. So, finally, on a motor with inner freewheel, the power needed to compensate the additional weight and drag is 20-30 watts only.

I have tested my GMAC yesterday and today with very low power (electrical assist between 30 and 50% of my pedaling power), I felt very clearly the electrical assistance (100 watts when I put 200-250 watts of human power), making the ride more enjoyable than without motor, and keeping the consumption very low (around 4 Wh/km).
That’s another way to use ebike, which I’m not really used to (the former version of my GMAC was mainly for fast commuting at 1000-1500 watts) but which I enjoy also.
Personally I would think your figures a more than a bit low, but that could also be that I have a fat " Derriere " for the bike to carry and we often see over 20% gradient off road single track where 100W's would be seriously lacking, hence my interest in the M600. What is the saying "horses for courses "

Never the less you seem convinced, what about setting up a thread specifically for your learning curve rather than this one ?

Jil   100 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Jil » Oct 14 2021 12:07pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Oct 14 2021 11:05am
Never the less you seem convinced, what about setting up a thread specifically for your learning curve rather than this one ?
You mean dedicated to low-assist setups ? Good idea --> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=113736&p=1681778#p1681778
My bike : Surly "eKrampus" with GMAC 8T, Phaserunner and 20 Ah/52 V Li-ion battery.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by casainho » Oct 26 2021 4:30am

I am developing a DIY easy to build EBike and scooter display based on the popular SW102 hardware. Although we did develop our own OpenSource firmware for it, there are different hardware versions make it very hard to install our firmware. Also, the SW102 does not have CANBUS and would not work with Bafang M500/M600/M800 or with the scooters, because every device has a bit of specifics electronics.

On this project there will be a base that is this microcontroller board with Bluetooth and ANT wireless communications and this small display. There will be room to add the specifics electronics and firmware parts for different devices. Current development state: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/ev_d ... etooth_ant

Once we have an OpenSource firmware for this Bafang motors, then we can use this display and customize the advanced motor and battery parameters:

Image

Schematic:
Image

Image

Image

Image
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

Sandur-Rx   1 mW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Sandur-Rx » Oct 28 2021 5:20pm

I would love a wireless display and remote for sure!

PadreParada   1 mW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by PadreParada » Oct 31 2021 1:52pm

casainho wrote:
Oct 26 2021 4:30am
Once we have an OpenSource firmware for this Bafang motors, then we can use this display and customize the advanced motor and battery parameters:
Last edited by PadreParada on Oct 31 2021 1:59pm, edited 1 time in total.

PadreParada   1 mW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by PadreParada » Oct 31 2021 1:53pm

casainho wrote:
Oct 26 2021 4:30am
Once we have an OpenSource firmware for this Bafang motors, then we can use this display and customize the advanced motor and battery parameters:
Hi casainho, any news or hope on the OpenSource firmware for the M500/M600

Thanks

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by casainho » Oct 31 2021 2:32pm

PadreParada wrote:
Oct 31 2021 1:53pm
casainho wrote:
Oct 26 2021 4:30am
Once we have an OpenSource firmware for this Bafang motors, then we can use this display and customize the advanced motor and battery parameters:
Hi casainho, any news or hope on the OpenSource firmware for the M500/M600
No and do not count with it soon from my side. I would say at least I will take one more year.

For now, I am working on the display and I have it already controlling perfectly my TSDZ2 including working with the mobile app - and I am now designing the enclosure for 3D printing and then install on my EBike with TSDZ2 motor:



On my ebike handlebar with TSDZ2 motor:
Image

On the Xiaomi scooter:
Image
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

Tony_150   1 µW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tony_150 » Nov 09 2021 7:58am

This is very interesting.

I am new to this community, so you might call me a noob :lol:
I just found out that eBikes can contain a CAN bus, which is mindblowing for me.

So my question is; will I be able to connect an IOT device to an eBike?

E.g., this device https://www.autopi.io/hardware-dongle/generation-three/ - Note. I.e., if I am able to change the OBD port to an USB port.

Sandur-Rx   1 mW

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Sandur-Rx » Nov 19 2021 12:34pm

Tony_150 wrote:
Nov 09 2021 7:58am
This is very interesting.

I am new to this community, so you might call me a noob :lol:
I just found out that eBikes can contain a CAN bus, which is mindblowing for me.

So my question is; will I be able to connect an IOT device to an eBike?

E.g., this device https://www.autopi.io/hardware-dongle/generation-three/ - Note. I.e., if I am able to change the OBD port to an USB port.
No don’t think so

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