TSDZ2, how do I know I'm not wearing out the motor?

Platypus

100 mW
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
41
I recently installed a 52v 750w TSDZ2 motor on my road bike. I know that riding in too high a gear will eventually wear the motor out. However, how do I know this is happening?

In other vehicles, you can tell if it is overworked. You can hear a car's engine struggling, or automatic transmissions shift down a gear. Human beings get tired. But what about an ebike, other than not starting on a steep hill in top gear? Can the open source software give feedback on the limit being reached?j
 
One thing you can do is get an inexpensive stick on thermometer with a second temp sensor probe on a lead, and stick the "outdoor" sensor onto the part of the controller that gets warmest. Controller surface temp isn't the same as motor internal temp, but it will show when the system is heating up under load. You may even be able to use an infrared thermometer to get corresponding motor surface temps for various controller surface temps. As a bonus you get an outside temperature reading while riding.
 
LeftieBiker said:
One thing you can do is get an inexpensive stick on thermometer with a second temp sensor probe on a lead, and stick the "outdoor" sensor onto the part of the controller that gets warmest.
That would work. Do other riders worry about this problem? Or am I over thinking things having only just installed it?
 
Platypus said:
LeftieBiker said:
One thing you can do is get an inexpensive stick on thermometer with a second temp sensor probe on a lead, and stick the "outdoor" sensor onto the part of the controller that gets warmest.
That would work. Do other riders worry about this problem? Or am I over thinking things having only just installed it?


I did it because I have some very large, steep hills on my rural riding route and have burned out a couple of EZIP controllers, but I've found that the controller case on my Magnum Metro only gains a few degrees on them. I'd say to only worry about it if your riding situation is unusually stressful for the drive system.
 
flat tire said:
If you're worried about this you picked a motor too small.
No, please read the thread. My issue is that I have no feedback from the bike on how much is too much. Also, 750w is the most powerful mid drive, torque sensing kit I could find.
 
First of all you say you "know" you will kill the motor if you ride too long in a high gear. With a 750 watt kit this means even full power in top gear will probably disappoint you. YOU PICKED TOO SMALL OF A MOTOR.

Platypus said:
750w is the most powerful mid drive, torque sensing kit I could find.

This is a joke. The most popular kits double that bolt-on and you can make an arbitrarily powerful PAS with your own torque sensing bb an ASI controller (or other high end controller) and any choice of motor / drive.

For a road bike ridden only on smooth roads a hub motor is a better choice anyway. You could have a multikw torque sensing PAS for like $1k.
 
flat tire said:
With a 750 watt kit this means even full power in top gear will probably disappoint you. YOU PICKED TOO SMALL OF A MOTOR.
You are entitled to your views on whether my motor is powerful enough, but that's besides the point. I have a very specific question about how I know if the motor is being overworked.

flat tire said:
This is a joke. The most popular kits double that bolt-on and you can make an arbitrarily powerful PAS...
No, it is the result of my product research; and I am not changing it. You have been less than diplomatic to a new member of this forum and I would appreciate it if you could stick to the points which I raise.
 
You measure the temperature internally via a probe on the windings. How hot is too hot depends. You have a cheap motor, so don't go too far over 100C. I guess you didn't realize that motors get hot.
 
Platypus said:
I recently installed a 52v 750w TSDZ2 motor on my road bike. I know that riding in too high a gear will eventually wear the motor out. However, how do I know this is happening?

In other vehicles, you can tell if it is overworked. You can hear a car's engine struggling, or automatic transmissions shift down a gear. Human beings get tired. But what about an ebike, other than not starting on a steep hill in top gear? Can the open source software give feedback on the limit being reached?j
Our OpenSource firmware controls (and shows) the motor temperature. You can also configure max current ramp step in the hope the save the blue gear and all other mechanical parts, as also you can limit max current. Please read the wiki first and then the thread.
 
Platypus said:
I recently installed a 52v 750w TSDZ2 motor on my road bike. I know that riding in too high a gear will eventually wear the motor out. However, how do I know this is happening?

In other vehicles, you can tell if it is overworked. You can hear a car's engine struggling, or automatic transmissions shift down a gear. Human beings get tired. But what about an ebike, other than not starting on a steep hill in top gear? Can the open source software give feedback on the limit being reached?j

There are a couple of issues: heat on the motor itself, and then the durability of the blue nylon gear in this motor. The FOSS firmware will allow you to fit a temperature sensor to the motor, and automatically reduce & cut power at configurable temperature levels. This helps avoid high temps that demagnetize the motor and destroy it.

The nylon gear can get damaged, and high stress will obviously make that more likely, like high torque at low rpm (and also high heat has to make that worse). The FOSS firmware tries to reduce the stress by limiting how fast power can be ramped up, but protecting it is not an exact science. There are people using this motor off-road at the higher end of its power levels though.

People have very different ideas of how much is enough. I cruise around quite fast without ever using more than 500W, and find that quite a lot, but I also like to put in some leg effort. I initially was thinking of a hub motor & torque BB etc., for durability reasons, but I'm glad I chose the TSDZ2 because it's cheaper, lighter and more efficient and the bike is well balanced.
 
jimmyfergus said:
The FOSS firmware will allow you to fit a temperature sensor to the motor, and automatically reduce & cut power at configurable temperature levels. This helps avoid high temps that demagnetize the motor and destroy it.
Thanks Jimmy. I will do this eventually. For now, I'll just roll with using the motor gently.
 
Back
Top