Bfang M600 Vs others (Bosh,shimano, ect) Reliability wise

I am curious, I seem to see a number of people having one or another issue with the Bfang M600. Is it any less reliable than any of the other torque sensing motors that come on the brand name bikes like the Levo and the santa cruz heckler and others? Not wanting to get slammed here. I currently ride a converted Kona with a Bfang HHSD and I love it.

What issues have you seen with the M600? I am not aware of reliability issues.

To me the question is odd, since the whole value proposition, business model etc are so radically different between those two worlds.

Like asking a group of sustainable farming people building their own homes by hand, what they think about buying a timeshare in a resort.

first off I saw a couple people have the motor quit, both, the manufacturer of the bike replaced for them. I have also seen a couple where the nylon gear went out. As for it being a odd question it is not. Currently a Levo can be had for a bit over 4000, or used for under 4000. The Luna X1 is 3650 and the Apollo is 4900. Soo really the price difference is not all that great from a X1 to a Levo, 25% on a purchase of this magnitude is not the end of the world if there is a difference in reliability. Now I am not claiming there is a difference. I am doing just the opposite, I am asking those on this forum to tell me what their experience has been, because I am considering a Luna with a M600 drive system, but I do not want to find out after that I did not ask the question here. Instead of jumping me for asking why not tell me your experience and help me. The fact that I currently own two Bfang converted bikes should tell you the way I lean when it comes to E-bikes. When I built my Kona I was offered a slightly used Levo for maybe 1000 more than my Kona and the conversion cost me. the Kona is just much more what I was looking for. Now I have another goal, and there are 3 options, conversion, Luna spec built, or major manufacturer. ( my least favorite of the list). As I said, I am looking for info, not criticizing...

What are you looking for? Commuter? Trail bike?

I think M600 reliability will be fine. The bigger difference IMO (ignoring reliability and power) is how refined the motors are. I can tell you there was a night and day difference between the Turbo Levo I test rode (Brose motor) and the Luna X1 (M600 tuned by Luna). Torque sensing and power delivery was close to perfection on the Brose motor and just ok on the M600. I don't have an Ultra but my understanding it is also not up to par when it comes to refinement of torque sensing and power delivery. This is a good read:

https://wattwagons.com/blogs/news/archon-x1-controller

With the M600 I think it comes down to whether you are happy with "just ok" torque sensing with more power for less money or a more refined but more expensive motor (and batteries) limited to euro spec (which are more powerful IME than they are given credit). If you want BBSHD power with torque sensing I think you're better off considering an Ultra (with upgraded aftermarket controller), but will inevitably be a heavier bike less nimble for technical riding.

BTW, if you are looking for a reasonably priced FS mid drive (not that you seem worried about cost or want a manufacturer built bike) there are some very compelling options out there. BH reportedly plans to leave the US ebike market and auctioned off their inventory. Last month I snapped up a few BH Rebel Lite HTs with Yamaha PW motor for under $1K delivered. I picked them up to have extra bikes for friends and family. Crazy Lenny's has some BH full suspension bikes for 50% off (call in price). This one was $2300 last week and they have another FS Atom which is being similarly discounted if you call. The Atoms have Brose motors:

https://www.crazylennysebikes.com/shop/bh-lynx-6/

That said, some of the earlier Brose motors had belt issues so do your research.

For light weight DIY kit with torque sensing you might want to take a gamble on this:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=103429

If you want the ultimate HT commuter with powerful / reliable motor I think this will be hard to beat (but it's going to be a while).

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/any-interest-in-committing-to-pre-launch-price-for-a-limited-run-hard-tail-superbike.32547/

that BH is beautiful. I am honestly just starting to look around. I love my Kona FS with BBSHD. It has taken me more hours than I care to count to get the programming the way I want it but I am very close. As a trail bike it is near perfect, and while that BH is beautiful, the Kona is great for what I need I would not dump more money to upgrade at this point.
What I am starting to look for is a Fattire bike. We are planning a move to Mexico in the next few years and it seems that for there as a commuter/beach, and even trail bike it would be great. i am honestly looking seriously at the Luna big fat belt bike. I am hoping they will come out with a small frame so I can get one for me and one for my wife.

As you probably know the M600 can't be programmed so make sure you're good with the stock programming. If you're near Luna or FLX you might to take one for a test ride to see if you can live with it.

I could swear that there were a couple of people on the forum that had managed to find the program to program it? Because programming a Bfang is essential, I have done soo much programming on my BBSHD, I could not live with it if it was in stock form....

Yeah, no dice on M600. Not sure you can even program speed limit. Euro spec are more programmable with app and third party tuning. M600 could have been a game changer but mostly a letdown in my book.

you saying can't bypass the stock controller?

surely just a matter of time?

I suppose you could. It's ultimately just a motor that takes orders from the controller. It's unfortunate Bafang didn't make it programmable by default. Perhaps the company that makes the aftermarket controller for the Ultra will eventually work their magic on the M600.

Why wouldn't most tunable controllers in the right amps/volts ballpark work?

Might depend on what you're looking to tune. For example, you can throw a phaserunner in an Ultra for more power but not sure it's going to be more refined than the stock controller.

A Phaserunner would certainly get the most out of it, and be very precise FoC, likely much better range efficiency?

CAv3 for protective limiting. . .