Anybody measured a SRAM XD driver?

I'm looking for specific dimensions on the SRAM XD freehubs. Has anyone measured one? Anybody know specifically what the thread is for the lockring that holds the cassette on the splines as well as the diameter of the smooth portion?

I was just brainstorming and came up with an idea for a sleeve that would engage the splines and hold a big sprocket as well as a 1.37-24tpi freewheel so I could run 2 chains crossbreak style. A shimano spline is too big and would interfere with the threads. This Sram xd driver looks a little smaller. I don't want to buy one just to find out.

https://www.xddriverbody.com/apply
https://www.xddriverbody.com/s/90-2415-181-000_C7_RELEASED.pdf
https://www.xddriverbody.com/s/90-2415-189-000_B3.pdf
etc

Thanks! That was exactly what I was looking for.

Looks like the smooth section is small enough that I could run a sleeve with 1.37-24 tpi external threads on it. There would only be about 1.5mm of wall thickness but I would think that would hold human pedal torque. The flip side is that a freewheel with shimano HG splines instead of a thread is only about $100 so that's likely the better option. If I already owned the sram freehub it might be worth trying.

We need someone to make a machined interface between a cassette and a Shimano type freehub body. Did I read sometime in the past that you are a machinest ? or work in or have access to a machine shop ?

However in addition to that , and in the long term XD Driver Freehub Bodies and better priced and stronger ( heaver ) cassettes are better suited to our higher power mid-drives .

XD hub boddies are a reasonably priced enough ... https://www.jensonusa.com/search?q=XD+Driver

I do think you need a hub that will accept it . perhaps it is better to buy a hub that is made to work with an XD Driver freehub .

For mid-drives , I think we need to use XD Driver freehub bodies,
and
have someone make reasonable priced 8, 9 , and 12 speed cassettes strong enough to work with higher power mid-drives .

ScooterMan101 said:

We need someone to make a machined interface between a cassette and a Shimano type freehub body.

Click to expand...

???

That's what cassette and freehubs do.

Are you talking about freewheel threads?

Both a XD Driver , and , a Shimano Freehub use Cassettes,
the difference is the interface between the two .
So
When you look into the center of a Cassette that mates to a XD Driver Freehub Body, it is different from a Shimano / Sram splined one .

I am taking about , in regards to Shimano/Sram Splined Freehub Bodies , a interface that has more interface than the 1.3
millimeter interface than they presently have. Which gets chewed up when allot of torque is applied to it, or even when a strong rider without a motor does who gets out of the saddle and stands on the pedals .

I am talking about making the interface more like 2.5 to 3.5 millimeters .

If I understand you correctly, you mean the splines are not deep enough.

To fix that you would need to custom-make both a new freehub body and new sprockets, because they'd both need deeper splines.

There's no way to make something that goes between the existing stuff to make it better because there's no room to do so.

If you mean something else you'll need to attach pictures or give precise descriptions.

Lots of different questions suggestions and pronouns flying around here so I'm not sure who is asking what to who. I personally have no complaints with industry standard freewheel hub driver bodies because there are steel ones available and extra wide cogs on the market to prevent the dig in problem common to aluminum versions.

My goal was to run 2 chains. One driven by the motor using a large cog 45-50 tooth engaging the sram XD splines as designed. The second chain would be next to it using a thread on freewheel. Basically moving the job of a FW bottom bracket to the rear hub ie. motor doesnt spin the pedals. I really don't like the 2 stage reduction of FW bottom bracket drives and I'd like to run a huge rear sprocket for the motor and still have my trials 22:18 ratio at the pedals for low speed control. 2 chains makes it possible to accomplish all of this instead of compromising efficiency with a FW BB. I already have cranks and a bottom bracket that I like and a good dual bearing WI HD freewheel is at least $100.

With a shimano freehub driver the splines are the entire width of the cassette. The outside diameter of the splines are too large a diameter for a sleeve that would have shimano spline inside and freewheel threads outside.

Unlike shimano, the smooth portion of the sram XD does have a small enough diameter to make it theoretically possible to do. It would be a pretty thin wall sleeve but if it were steel it would probably hold up.

the easiest solution for me is probably to just spend another $75-100 on one of these shimano splined frewheels. I already own a nice white industries freewheel so I was just brainstorming a way to use it on the rear driver body.

The hardest part about either shimano/sram rear wheel solution would be the dual derailleur/tensioner setup required to run 2 chains to the rear.

Yes, the Splines are not deep enough .

Yes , A machinest that is interested in high torque/power mid-drives is probably the one who makes both a freehub body and cassette.

You will have to make room, that is where a machinest comes in .

No pictures because it does not exist yet. What I am trying to describe is a new outter part of the Shimano Freehub body machined that will fit onto the other parts of the Shimano Freehub body, that has higher splines of 2.5 or really 3 mm or more height , and then machine the splines on the casssette to also be 2.5 or so in height.
( assuming that Freehub Bodies can be taken apart )



quote=amberwolf post_id=1555379 time=1589453714 user_id=13812]
If I understand you correctly, you mean the splines are not deep enough.

To fix that you would need to custom-make both a new freehub body and new sprockets, because they'd both need deeper splines.

There's no way to make something that goes between the existing stuff to make it better because there's no room to do so.

If you mean something else you'll need to attach pictures or give precise descriptions.
[/quote]

DanGt86,

I thought I read somewhere in a past E.S. thread , that you are a machinest .

So I am expressing the desire and need of us that still want to use a mid-drive at the BB area and want to use many gears on the rear.
In my case and for many people in the world, we live in an area where it is both flat and hilly . Where I live the new 12 speed casssettes are good because we want to go a good speed on the flats , but need very low gearing for the 6,7 up to 14 % grades on some of the hills we go up . 6% and up to 8% grades on the roads are very common around me, 14 % and up on off road trails.

For what I now, see you are talking about I am also waiting on someone to make longer swing arm e-bike frames , long enought swingarms in order to be able to use a 29 er wheel / 2.6 inch tire , and , have enough room for a motor .
Then when such a frame is made , either 2 wheel or 3 wheel recumbent , then your 2 chain idea would work better .

Tensioner on the motor chain , and Derailleur on the Drive from Crank Chainwheels to Rear Cassette should be quite easy ... when the right rear swingarm is made .

You are correct. I am a machinist. However developing totally new products takes an unbelievable amount of time an resources. I have some impressive machines at my disposal but to really make things from scratch all the way to production requires a team of engineers, industrial designers, and cad guys too.

Developing products is crazy expensive and nobody wants to pay for the finished product. Most Endless-Sphericals including myself are pretty cheap. That's not to say I don't appreciate quality products I just don't need a $6k-10k ebike.

People want a $300 (enduro EBB) whatever its called vector clone frame. I can't compete with that in any way. There is a reason modern mountainbike frames are $1500

As for the taller splines on the driver, have you really had a problem destroying the shimano splines? The Sram XD looks like a stronger solution due to the wider engagement with the splines. If a shimano style driver body is aluminum, I'm not sure making them taller would even make them much stronger. I think its a matter of contacting as much width as possible rather than more height.

Yes I have a problem with destroying the splines on my Shimano style freehub body.

I would like to use a XD driver , however the only cassettes that are available that I know of are only 11 speed and 12 speed cassettes,
To me 11 speed is pretty much useless for a end consumer, great marketing ploy to sell new items a couple of years ago, but now we have better 12 speed Sram Eagle and SunRace Cassettes ( the SunRace does Not work with the XD Driver .
The Eagle ones that can fit a XD driver are however way over priced for my budget, so that drives home your other point about e-bike DIY people wanting a product in the under $ 60 range .
The cost of switching over to a complete 12 speed system is not worth it at my income.
and
Do we really need 12 speeds with a good power mid-drive ?
I would think a 12 tooth to 50 tooth , or 13 tooth to 48 tooth , 8 or 9 speed cassette would be good enough , with my experience .
I would use the XD System if you could conctrate on just one item ( a couple really )
and that is 8/ 9 speed and speed cassettes that are machined and work with a XD Driver . as far as I know only a few 11 speed cassettes and one Sram Eagle 12 speed cassette works with the XD driver / freewheel.

In regards to frames, the hub motor guys might only like a $ 300 EEB / Stealth Clone Frame. But I have not bought one yet and probably will not because they need some improvements a number of improvements really .

I would pay $ 500 for a better frame that was longer , lower, slacker head tube angle , batterys inserted through the side of main frame . One that would work with a big mid-drive like the Cyclone 3k, or Lighting Rod's Big Block.
and I am sure many other people would as well.

I would consider $ 500 a good price for such a frame.

In the E-Bike world we do not need the expensive Hydro Forming that makes modern mountain frames $ 1500 ,
a Simple straight tubing , with machined lugs will work just fine , a littler heavier but at 1/3 the cost and a with
good mid drive motor it will all work out fine.

B.T.W. I have a picture of myself next to the first Tesla Car , the Roadster . Just the Frame, not one weld on the whole frame if I remember right, just lugs and a adheasive that bonded all parts together.

I think you could make a good frame that was simple and cheep to make.

ScooterMan101 said:

Yes I have a problem with destroying the splines on my Shimano style freehub body.

Click to expand...

Is your freehub made from any material other than steel? If so, that’s your problem.

Not exactly, Yesterday I called a local bike shop, I asked the mechanic if he could order me a steel shimano style freehub driver for my rear wheel.
I gave him the information on two different wheelsets I have .

He can , not , get me a steel freehub driver for either of my wheel sets,

He said the steel ones are not used much these days because each wheel mf'g wants the lightest wheelset they can make because if they don't the next Mf'g they are in competition with will make a lighter set and get the customer's money.
Note: I have a bike that uses through axle , so perhaps on a cheep wal-mart bike that has dropouts you can get steel,
but not for the good quality wheels I have .

Balmorhea said:

ScooterMan101 said:

Yes I have a problem with destroying the splines on my Shimano style freehub body.

Click to expand...

Is your freehub made from any material other than steel? If so, that’s your problem.

Click to expand...

ScooterMan101 said:

Not exactly, Yesterday I called a local bike shop, I asked the mechanic if he could order me a steel shimano style freehub driver for my rear wheel.
I gave him the information on two different wheelsets I have .

He can , not , get me a steel freehub driver for either of my wheel sets,

He said the steel ones are not used much these days because each wheel mf'g wants the lightest wheelset they can make because if they don't the next Mf'g they are in competition with will make a lighter set and get the customer's money.
Note: I have a bike that uses through axle , so perhaps on a cheep wal-mart bike that has dropouts you can get steel,
but not for the good quality wheels I have .

Balmorhea said:

ScooterMan101 said:

Yes I have a problem with destroying the splines on my Shimano style freehub body.

Click to expand...

Is your freehub made from any material other than steel? If so, that’s your problem.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

If you want to pay extra to avoid getting the good stuff, that's your problem. See also brass spoke nipples, steel front and rear sprockets, 8 speed cassettes, aluminum rims. Stuff you see on bike mechanics' bikes but not so much on poser bikes.

It does seem that much of the bike industry doesn't apply to us. Its so focused on weight reduction that a lot of things become too weak to hold up to motor power. The upside is that older heavier stuff is cheaper for a while until it disappears from the market. So there is definitely a sweet spot.

I'm currently building a wheel using a DT swiss 240 hub, mtx-33rim with butted spokes, brass nipples, and about a 10mm wide sprocket carrier on the freehub which will hold a 219chain sprocket. Its all off the shelf parts and will weigh a million pounds by modern bike standards. Im sure it will feel like a feather compared to the muxus 3k hub motor currently on that bike. Its all relative.

I cant imagine wanting more than 8 speeds on an ebike beyond 700-1000watts. In the case of a powerful motor its well worth it foe the thicker chain in my opinion. It is a shame that 45-50tooth cogs didnt exist at the same time as 8 speeds.

DanGT86 said:

I cant imagine wanting more than 8 speeds on an ebike beyond 700-1000watts. In the case of a powerful motor its well worth it foe the thicker chain in my opinion. It is a shame that 45-50tooth cogs didnt exist at the same time as 8 speeds.

Click to expand...

Microshift makes 8 speed 12-42 cassettes that cost $25 full retail. Based on my experience of using 34t and 40t low gears on a 750W BBS02, I don't know what I'd do with lower gears than that. They were there for getting home uphill on a heavy bike with a flat battery.