A tale of E-bikes

cavi

10 W
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
79
titus.jpg
kona1.jpg

I am doing this post to help others that might be in the same situation as myself. I have ridden since a child and live riding mountain bikes. Awhile back I broke my kneecap and after that I could still ride but I can not pedal while standing, when my bad knee gets to top dead center it does not push over unless I sit. So I have built 3 electric bikes soo far. What my goal is to have a bike that basically is for off road only. I want it to feel like anormal MTB and give me just enough power to help a little and get me up a hill that I might not be able to get up on my own. I have not desire to have a bike that I ride on throttle and run like a electric motorcycle. I also want to program it to where when cadence goes up the power cuts back so I am not pedaling with no pressure or having to go to too high a gear to maintain pedal pressure (and end up going way faster than I intender).
1st bike was a Specialized pitch with a BBSHD. It worked well but after a couple of rides I found a kona full suspension bike so I bought it and moved all electrics to the Kona. This is my main bike. With stock settings I hated the bike as it would put out too much power and very quickly I would be pedaling and chasing the motor. Horrible. So after learning how to program it I managed a set of programming that worked, and as cadence rises power would cut back and my pas 2 and 3 felt just like a normal bike on flat trails(it still gives me a little mut not much ). As trails get some incline pas 4 and 5 come in to play , and for a steep hill 6 and 7.
I then built my wife’s Specialized Muta with a BBS02 and a luna Wolf PUP battery. I used the same mindset with hers. She loves it. Although the BBS02 has an issue that when using PAS the throttle does not work too well, I am working on doing a hardwire fix.
Next I installed a Ludicrous Controller in my BBSHD, and redid the programming. In all honestly for me I did not need it and would not do it again. The issue is that when I use the throttle it is very sensitive due to too much power. I will probably go back and drop the amps back to the equivalent of the normal throttle. Other than that I will leave it as it is supposed to be more built proof.
I will say that after riding both bikes for months now the BBS02 is probably enough power for anyone that wants what I have described, however the BBSHD is definitely more bulletproof, however way more weight and definitely needs a bigger battery. We rode 10 miles of trail today and my wife’s PUP still have 75% battery, as does my full size Wolf……
Now, my next bike is a Titus Racer X 29er that I built about 10 years ago. I am installing a TSDZ2 on it and was going to run a PUP like my wife’s. I installed it yesterday and am waiting on pedals. I went with the open source software. I really want to feel the difference with a torque sensing motor since that seems to be what most big name bikes are going with. I will report back in a couple of weeks with my impressions and compare it to the BB bikes. First impressions are that the tZ is lighter even than the BBS02, and smaller. However it definitely does not seem as well built. Seems cheaper built. For example, the triangle spacer that also bolts to the motor on the BB is thick and has the nipples to make sure the motor will not move, on the TZ it is thinner, no nipples and can bend easy.
On the flip side the open source software looks awesome for now. I can even see cadence……
As for heat, my wife and I had a long and steep hill section today, around ¼ mile of pretty steep climb and neither of the BB motors were hot at all. Again neither of us are relying only on motor, the motor is just assisting us.
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Hope you already have the second "pup" since Luna is out of them and I was told they probably won't do another run. I located a 52V, 4 ah battery on ebay for $175 or so.
 
No I do not...... I am soo Pis###### at Luna, but I found a almost as small battery from electrify bike, and someone had already 3d printed a enclosure, which I will modify a bit then attach a metal plate to it and it will work fine. Just not as nice looking as the PUP. I do not understand Luna, they have a great product and they drop it. Same with half their stuff, always out of stock, that is money lost....
 
No I do not...... I am soo Pis###### at Luna, but I found a almost as small battery from electrify bike, and someone had already 3d printed a enclosure, which I will modify a bit then attach a metal plate to it and it will work fine. Just not as nice looking as the PUP. I do not understand Luna, they have a great product and they drop it. Same with half their stuff, always out of stock, that is money lost....
For now I am using my wife's pup until my new battery is here. At this point the TZ needs me to learn the software as it really sucks compared to the BBSHD (which I have programmed to my liking) This means I need alot of work and trial and error.
On another note I rented a Specialized Levo today so see what they felt like. I really liked the Levo, and if money was no issue I would probably choose that over my current bikes, but since my Kona is proabably a 2000 bike currently I would never choose a Levo over it due to the price tag. With my current settings on my BBSHD the difference is not a major thing, and if you wanted power the BBSHD has way more. While the Levo feels more refined and smooth.
 
2old said:
Hope you already have the second "pup" since Luna is out of them and I was told they probably won't do another run. I located a 52V, 4 ah battery on ebay for $175 or so.

you bought one or saw one?
 
cavi said:
No I do not...... I am soo Pis###### at Luna, but I found a almost as small battery from electrify bike, and someone had already 3d printed a enclosure, which I will modify a bit then attach a metal plate to it and it will work fine. Just not as nice looking as the PUP. I do not understand Luna, they have a great product and they drop it. Same with half their stuff, always out of stock, that is money lost....

They are subject to their suppliers, shippers, upfront cash requirements, and a fickle buying public. I think their customer service (solely their responsibility) is pretty lame, but their other shortcomings are quite understandable. Buyers will always find fault, and let themselves off the hook for their own screwups. Any business that copes gracefully with those things is running on a very fat profit margin.
 
i spoke to them and part of it is they apparently moved their battery factory and do not really have space for that line of batteries. Their words not mine. These are the type of reasons I would never buy a X1 from them, I think on paper it makes more sense than the Levo, I do not trust them to have the parts for it down the road...... Sad as it really looks like a nice bike.
For now I love my BBSHD Kona and I have hopes that I will get the programming down to where I can get my Titus to perform close to the Levo. If I can do that then the big difference is the fact that the Levo is a modern Geometry mtb while both my others are old school, still they both handle well, just lots less suspension travel.....
 
cavi said:
2old said:
Hope you already have the second "pup" since Luna is out of them and I was told they probably won't do another run. I located a 52V, 4 ah battery on ebay for $175 or so.

you bought one or saw one?

Purchased, but not received yet. Also, the battery is small enough that I plan to put it in a seat bag (insulated, of course).
 
sorry not lipos for me, I flew lots of rc planes and drones and know all too well the issues. This is the pack I bought:
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p43/52v_30amp_6Ah_Samsung_30Q_Lithium_Mini-Cube_E-bike_Battery.html#/

then I have a 3d printed case being made for it soo it will work just like the pup did, not quite as nice looking and it cannot handle as many amps as the pup, but I am not drawing over 20amps anyways. Plus it is a 6ah pack not a 4.
Once I have the final 3d enclosure stl. file I will share it.
On today's ride report, I rode the Kona today after riding the Levo yesterday. I can honestly say that the programming I have on my BBSHD is very close to the feel of the Levo. I do like the newer geometry and longer travel on the Levo, but I still have at least 3000 in my pocket!!!
Now I am revising my programming on the BBSHD today as I am not happy with the throttle response with the Ludi controller, the power is soo much the throttle becomes very sensitive, and on a steep hill where you are almost there but need to feed in just a bit of throttle becomes difficult at best dangerous at worst. So I am essentially defeating the extra amps of the Ludi so I can go back to a smooth throttle. Again, these are my settings for my style of riding
 
Soo I got to ride the TZ bike yesterday, really put it through it's paces. First off it is a world of difference from the BBSHD bike. Not a good or bad thing, just different. The TZ performed well, I still need some more programming tuning. i liked it quite a bit. The positives are the weight, the bike is soo light compared to both my BB bikes. This bike weighs less than even my wife's bbs02 bike without it's battery. The power delivery is smooth as one would want, and probably smoother than the BB bike.
I still used the PUP battery as my battery is not quite ready. I went about 8 miles and have more than half of the battery left.
Negatives: noise, it is way louder than the BBSHD and the levo. The throttle does not quite work as well as I wanted, it is slow to come on and as far as I can see linked to the power level I am in. This probably has to do with tuning. Either way I do not use the throttle much at all. Verdict? I need to ride it more, alot more..... (and I need a taller handlebar
 
cavi said:
First off it is a world of difference from the BBSHD bike.

You don't know the half of it! How excited you'll be when the crank breaks off in traffic!
 
I only ride dirt trails, which will probably put way more strain, so far I have like 5 rides and not crank breaking issues, and the programming is getting to where I really like it. The throttle is useless for me at this point....
 
Update, it will not be the tale of 3 bikes as I bought a Levo which will be here this week.
I have ridden b oth of the others and my wife's BBS02 many times now. I have the latest software on the TZ, and my programming on the BBSHD, but I have toned the BBASHD down as the Ludi controller was actually too much for normal trail riding, it made the throttle uncontrollable. Not that I use the throttle, but in the case of a very steep hill where a bli of the throttle might mean getting to the top, that is where the throttle was useful, but not with the Ludi.
The BBSHD bike is awesome, feels great, like the motor was designed as part of the bike. The TZ works great and now isvery smooth, but it is not quite "part of the bike" feeling. It is more like going to a race track, and having two cars a old beat up BMW 3 series that you built up to run at the track and then having a BMW M3 that you also took to the track. The M3 just feels more cohesive. The big advantage of the TZ bike is that it is soo light compared to the BBSHD bike. I can run a 6ah battery and get a 15 mile ride and hide the battery in a under seat bag. anyone looking at the bike will not guess that it is electric at all. So there is really no winner. So much so that once I have the Levo I will probably sell one of the other two, and I do not know which one. It is a tough decision...
 
for my Father's day ride I took the BBSHD bike, and sorry to all the TZ fans, but the BBSHD way outperforms the TZ. It simply feels like the bike was built with the the motor on it, while the Tz feels like the motor is a afterthought. The BBSHD is not with out issues. It has taken me 6 months to get the programming exactly where it is now. Most people will not end up doing that and that means that t will not feel as good. The TZ, just have the company that is selling it load up the the current firmware, then set a couple of settings and you are there. also the TZ bike is way lighter, and I mean significantly. Part of this is due to me riding with a small battery, If I was to do a ride that was over 15 miles I would definitely need a bigger battery
 
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