Any Open Source Firmware for Cyclone motor/controller?

Leanier

10 mW
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
20
Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone has any experience with using open source firmware with the cyclone 3k mid-drive?
I have on order a cyclone 3k with the tiny sinewave controller (all they had in stock). Is there any open source firmware someone could point me to I could use on that? Or even a different controller that I could get and install some open source firmware into?

I am looking to have full control over my motor without the cost of high end controllers. I have pretty good access to electrical tools as needed, so I'm not afraid of a project.

I'm planning to take an older full suspension mountain bike I purchased recently and turn it into a trials motorcycle/bicycle hybrid with the cyclone.
 
By "full control" what specificaly are you looking to do?

If you are looking for FOC and torque (current) throttle control, you can use any of a number of powerstages with a Lebowski brain board, or one of the several high power VESC variants, and have control over a number of things that should let you tune the system as desired, but that's dependent on exactly what you want it to do for you.


One thing to keep in mind is that the higher power Cyclone motors themselves seem to get unhappy about some things, based on what little I've read about them in various threads, so if you've not alreayd read about those, you might wnat to check out at least the big Cyclone 3000w/etc thread.
 
As far as full control most of what I want is the ability to tune motor parameters and throttle response curves in order to get the throttle response working precisely.
I likely am looking for FOC torque control, I think that will work better than speed control. However, for PAS likely it would be useful to be able to use a speed control also

I also want PAS (and the ability to tune it), although it won't be the main point, as the bulk of my usage will be with the throttle only.

I have some longer term ambitions to actually be able to do some coding to add features (eco modes, cruise control, whatever else I dream up) but that again is a stretch goal.

I have been doing a lot of reading, most of the issues seem to relate to people putting a lot of power through them long term, which won't be an issue for trials. Or noise on the halls, which I feel I can work around if need be.
Main reason for a cyclone is to keep costs down while being able to get >3000W bursts with good torque.
 
Leanier said:
As far as full control most of what I want is the ability to tune motor parameters and throttle response curves in order to get the throttle response working precisely.

Well, the Lebowski has throttle curve mapping and voltage start/end points, for both throttle inputs (which you can use for two throttles or you can use one for variable regen braking, like I'm going to on the SB Cruiser using a cable operated throttle pulled by a brake lever. If your system has a freewheel between wheel and motor then regen can't work, but if it doesn't, it might if chain tensions are setup correctly and there is no tensioner or derailer since forces will be backwards and break those off).


I likely am looking for FOC torque control, I think that will work better than speed control. However, for PAS likely it would be useful to be able to use a speed control also
FWIW, using torque control for PAS works a lot more like actually pedalling (whether or not you use a torque sensor on the pedals), and is also easier to control the pedalling.

Especially for low-speed / low-power use on a high power system, whether on throttle or pedals it's way easier to control.





I also want PAS (and the ability to tune it), although it won't be the main point, as the bulk of my usage will be with the throttle only.

FWIW, the Cycle Analyst v3 will also let you tune the PAS to a fair degree, though it's throttle tuning is limited (there are no curves, for instance, but it does a great job translating actual throttle voltage range to actual controller input range).

I have some longer term ambitions to actually be able to do some coding to add features (eco modes, cruise control, whatever else I dream up) but that again is a stretch goal.
Well, the Lebowski code is available to do that if you want to try, but it doesn't have anything like that now. The KT OSFW code I think already has those things, but I don't remember.
 
The Lebowski controller sure looks like the ideal option if it weren't for the work to get one put together. I read your write-up on working with the Honda IMA, pretty impressive setup.
While I don't doubt I could get that to work for my setup, the Lebowski looks like its going to take more time just to get put together and working than I have available for this project (at least for that part of it)..

Torque control is definitely what I want if that is better for PAS also..
 
FWIW, it would probably take just a day's work to do one up, once you had all the parts ready and a plan in place for connectorizing. The big problem with the IMA as a powerstage is it is overkill, and rather large and heavy for a bicycle sized bike. (I'm willing to live with that for the cheapness and reliability)

Everything takes longer for me, because I'm slow and rarely have enough time at one time all at once, while also having the energy to do it, *and* having my eyes and hands both work at the same time as those. It's getting rarer for that conjunction to occur when I'm not actually at work wearing myself out...and having been sick for weeks didn't help any, even though now I'm better and am basicallly off work (unpaid medical leave) until I can get them to allow me back.

There's ohter powerstages (that are just a powerstage) you could use that would probably be even easier to wire up, if you can get one prebuilt from someone, with various threads around the forum.
 
Hmm,
Based on your build sheet you purchased the driver/brain section and only built the power control portion? That seems like it would take out a lot of the complexity down to something I'd be more interested in tackling..
Maybe I'll get this thing put together with the stock controller and that will give me some motivation to build my own controller.

I'm much better versed in the mechanical stuff (welding machining etc..) although I do dabble in programming and electronics some. Have made a couple really simple PCBs on my mill for Arduino level stuff.
 
Leanier said:
Based on your build sheet you purchased the driver/brain section and only built the power control portion?
Me? No, I bought both prebuilt (brain by Kiwifiat, and power by Honda), and am just wiring them together, based on the work others already did and verified works.

The only thing I'm doing different than they did is to just hold teh MCU in reset rather than cutting traces to gates/etc., or completely removing the MCU, both of which have been done to make this work. Figured there's less risk of me destroying stuff this way. ;)
 
Do you have any experience with the KT open source firmware? I was wondering if that would be a better starting place to get my feet wet before diving right into making my own controller..
 
Leanier said:
Do you have any experience with the KT open source firmware?
No, but the thread for it has LOTS of information, including the Github / wiki links, and plenty of people to help you figure out what you're doing when fiddling around with options and such. ;)

I know you can get the TSDZ2 OSFW already flashed on controllers; they may have this available for the KT stuff, too--but I don't know if it'd be on a controller version with high enough power for your needs. At a guess you'll have to do the flashing, too.

making my own controller..
If you mean making your own with basically an existing brain and powerstage mate-up, like I'm doing over in the HI-Lebowski thread, then that's actually pretty easy. Even modifying open-source code (if you already know how to do that stuff) is probably not too hard, from an existing working project, to just add features or tweak ones already there.


If you mean designing your own from scratch...that's really hard, especially for higher power levels. There are quite a few threads where people design and build their own controllers...but most of them are abandoned before ever building anything, though some get to prototype stages. It's also really expensive, becuase you're going to blow up a lot of parts in the process. ;)
 
Does anyone have any links for people selling pre-populated and ready to go brain boards? I searched the sales adds but only found people selling PCBs, nobody with one fully populated and ready to go.
 
If you mean the Lebowski unit, then if you look at my thread, you'll find I got mine from Kiwifiat here on ES. Dunno if he has a sales thread. Not sure if Whereswally909 is still selling them, but he had a sales thread somewhere. Dunno who else might be.

If you mean the KT OSFW, there isnt' a brain board for that, AFAIK, you get a whole KT controller and flash it.
 
I'm coming around to the idea of the Lebowski controller.. I like the idea of open source and being able to build a power stage that meets my specifications (and modify it as needed)
If I can find a cost effective Brain board, I feel I have the skills to build a power stage off of someone else's design without a lot of issues..
 
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