CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
scianiac   10 W

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by scianiac » Aug 01 2021 10:15am

I just wish they would offer helical gears, assuming they can make the bearing geometry acceptable for the lateral forces this is the proper way to make it quieter without sacrificing durability by using brass gears. Even if it was a more expensive upgrade I feel like most would opt for it.

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by raylo32 » Aug 01 2021 1:41pm

Exactly. Maybe that will be Gen 3 for $200 more?
scianiac wrote:
Aug 01 2021 10:15am
I just wish they would offer helical gears, assuming they can make the bearing geometry acceptable for the lateral forces this is the proper way to make it quieter without sacrificing durability by using brass gears. Even if it was a more expensive upgrade I feel like most would opt for it.

kein001   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by kein001 » Aug 01 2021 3:05pm

Regarding the issue of ramps. After 3x 2-3 hour trips with the engine installed. I can say that I will not do the next ones with a lot of support. The power generated by the motor has a negative impact on the rear sprocket and probably the chain. I can already see the first signs of wear, but I admit that I did not spare it. The climbs that I have been doing so far at about 15 km / h (without engine), now I was doing 30 km / h and more. Another issue is the consumption of energy from the battery, which significantly reduces the fun. Summing up, I do not know whether the benefits of the greater power of the CYC X1 PRO will translate into much of the quality of the climbs, bearing in mind the risk of rapid wear of the drive (chain ang cassette) and significant energy consumption. Of course, there is more engine power on the straight road, which is unrivaled. But as you ride in the terrain, the roots or rocks get slow you and you start to accelerate again from low speed.

I wanted to keep the maximum off-road qualities of the bike and I really cared about the weight, so please treat my feelings very subjectively.


Today I made additional incisions in the controller chase and I think that this topic is already closed for me. In my case, there is still a place to hide it even higher (closer to the support)
Currently, it protrudes about half a centimeter below the rack, but I prefer to get the controller chase than to bend the rack and possibly the support insert with the PAS sensor, and lave some space for wires remains.
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Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by Hillhater » Aug 01 2021 8:40pm

FYI.....those photos display very slowly...i suspect they are huge file size ?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

TNC   100 W

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by TNC » Aug 01 2021 9:04pm

I've been poking around in the info on the new X1 Stealth, and did I see correctly that the controller can be taken off and mounted remotely instead of right on the bottom where it is as delivered? If I saw that right, it would be a fairly huge benefit. Plus, it would be nice to develop an exact template to see if the motor can be installed in the optional spot between the seat and down tubes on a given frame.

kein001   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by kein001 » Aug 02 2021 8:08am

If you extend the cables yourself, the controller can be installed anywhere. I attache some photos. Printable templates with dimensions are available on the website. CYC. However, finding the right frame is a huge problem, I found out for myself. I sold my NS Bikes Snabb in it the engine was too close to the ground. I was planning to buy a Canyon Neuron, but the engine will not fit inside the frame. I remember that a few centimeters were missing, maybe now, when I have the engine in my hand, I would figure out how to mount it there -inside the Neuron frame.
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manray   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by manray » Aug 08 2021 12:24pm

New to this forum. Currently using TSDZ2 and looking to upgrade to a CYC Stealth. Besides ground clearance, can anyone explain the pros/cons between the drive options; 11/53 with 32T chainring and the 11/63 with 38T chainring? My current bike is using a 42T chainring and this works very well with my 5 spd cog so I'd like to eventually use a 42T chainring after some testing; assuming the 42T has enough chainstay clearance. Thanks to all replies in advance...

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by raylo32 » Aug 08 2021 1:03pm

You can look at the CYC website and it gives all the specs on the overall gear reductions provided by the various chain ring offerings. The first consideration is frame clearance. Some frames may only allow a 32t so then you are locked into that. Beyond that, it depends on the intent and how you like to ride. Lower overall reduction is good for torque and climbing like technical MTB riding while higher is better for cruising on the road. These motors will hit top speed on throttle but depending on which pedaling ring you select you will spin out before you get there. My CYC Pro Gen 2 with 38t pedaling chain ring spins me out for pedaling at about 30 MPH on my 26" wheel MTB... while on throttle it will continue past 40 mph on the flat. I might be able to fit a 42t and pedal a little faster on the road, but that would raise the overall reduction ratio and hurt off road performance.
manray wrote:
Aug 08 2021 12:24pm
New to this forum. Currently using TSDZ2 and looking to upgrade to a CYC Stealth. Besides ground clearance, can anyone explain the pros/cons between the drive options; 11/53 with 32T chainring and the 11/63 with 38T chainring? My current bike is using a 42T chainring and this works very well with my 5 spd cog so I'd like to eventually use a 42T chainring after some testing; assuming the 42T has enough chainstay clearance. Thanks to all replies in advance...
Last edited by raylo32 on Aug 08 2021 1:44pm, edited 2 times in total.

TNC   100 W

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by TNC » Aug 08 2021 1:24pm

This motor is looking very tempting, raylo. If I'm understanding the mounting options, it would seem an almost perfect MTB application where the motor can fit in a frame that allows fitment between the down and seat tubes. With the controller having the option of mounting remotely, if I'm understanding this correctly, this leaves the whole bottom of the MTB clean and devoid of any ground clearance issues. Am I looking at this right? I know you have the Pro, but you've done more research on this CYC version than I have. Since I use a backpack battery system, I'm not concerned with battery location. I'm thinking the 32T setup is what I'd go for.

I tell ya, I'd consider buying a full suspension frame with the down and seat tube clearances necessary to fit this motor if everything looks and sounds as good as this motor might be. I had been leaning toward a Bafang Ultra compatible bike/frame, but I see more options and perhaps better frame selection with this motor. I can get a decent selection of bare frames in Trek and Spec at the shop I work at. Can you see any downside to mounting the motor in between the down/seat tubes and controller elsewhere? The only negative I can see in its OEM designed fitment regimen is that idea of mounting the controller bellow the BB. That sounds odd. I really can't complain about my Nomad/BBSHD setup at all, but the power characteristics, BB clearance, and torque sensing are very tempting.

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by raylo32 » Aug 08 2021 1:40pm

Yes, given the correct frame these can be mounted inside the triangle. My main problem with that is that I am a roadie and like to have a water bottle. So if you mount it in the triangle you'll have the battery in a backpack AND a Camelbak bladder? Getting to be serious weight. The normal under the BB mounting option really provides plenty of clearance... it's just the idea of doing water crossings and splashing the controller, although it is supposed to be sealed. I have been walking the crossings for now, if only to minimize my cleanup work.

As for the gearing IIRC the 53/11 with 32t is actually a little higher overall... the 53/11 part is ~5 to 1, whereas the 63/11 is ~6 to 1. I am running a modified 53/11 with a 38t chain ring which makes ratio a bit higher still and it still has enough torque to climb steep trails. But I have the 63/11 with 38t chain ring on order. 38t will give me the same spin out pedaling cadence I have now for pave riding but the 63/11 will give me more a bit torque for the trails.

And for MTB trail riding the stealth really has plenty of power. I can't even come close to using all of the Pro's power on technical terrain.

Edit: Remember that the overall reduction includes the internal gearbox which is the same no matter which chain rings option you choose. The chain ring choices are really pretty close but do make small differences.

GEARBOX
​First stage reduction ratio 1:6 planetary gear
Hardened steel sun & ring gear

Overall reduction ratio
from motor to crank

1:28.9 (11/53T)

1:34.4 (11/63T)








TNC wrote:
Aug 08 2021 1:24pm
This motor is looking very tempting, raylo. If I'm understanding the mounting options, it would seem an almost perfect MTB application where the motor can fit in a frame that allows fitment between the down and seat tubes. With the controller having the option of mounting remotely, if I'm understanding this correctly, this leaves the whole bottom of the MTB clean and devoid of any ground clearance issues. Am I looking at this right? I know you have the Pro, but you've done more research on this CYC version than I have. Since I use a backpack battery system, I'm not concerned with battery location. I'm thinking the 32T setup is what I'd go for.

I tell ya, I'd consider buying a full suspension frame with the down and seat tube clearances necessary to fit this motor if everything looks and sounds as good as this motor might be. I had been leaning toward a Bafang Ultra compatible bike/frame, but I see more options and perhaps better frame selection with this motor. I can get a decent selection of bare frames in Trek and Spec at the shop I work at. Can you see any downside to mounting the motor in between the down/seat tubes and controller elsewhere? The only negative I can see in its OEM designed fitment regimen is that idea of mounting the controller bellow the BB. That sounds odd. I really can't complain about my Nomad/BBSHD setup at all, but the power characteristics, BB clearance, and torque sensing are very tempting.

TNC   100 W

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by TNC » Aug 08 2021 3:06pm

OK, my lack of familiarity for this motor is showing. Off the cuff I was thinking the drive chainring to the cassette as being 32T or 38T in the conventional sense when the final drive is influenced also by the main motor drive cog and its driven chainring...that driven chainring being the 53T or 63T. Didn't even take that into consideration on the surface...LOL!

I'd agree on the power appearing to be way more than adequate for MTB'ing with the Stealth. Heck, one can rarely use all the power of the BBSHD and even more rarely on a trail. The nice thing about the BBSHD is that for off roading, it is generally being used in an under stressed manner unless you're a throttle freak...LOL! I'm thinking the Stealth will fall into the same operating parameter. I'm still not clear on power usage comparisons between the two motors, and maybe we won't have real world numbers and experiences until enough Stealth units are in actual operation.

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by raylo32 » Aug 08 2021 3:36pm

Don't forget the 6:1 reduction in the motor's planetary gear box that then feeds another ~6:1 reduction from the motor cog to the 219h ring as you noted. The motor can really wind up to like 12,000+ rpm so this actually makes sense. The differenes in the standard 104 BCD pedaling chainring choices affects the overall reduction to the cassette a bit, but mainly influences pedal cadence and therefore top assisted speed without spinning out.
TNC wrote:
Aug 08 2021 3:06pm
OK, my lack of familiarity for this motor is showing. Off the cuff I was thinking the drive chainring to the cassette as being 32T or 38T in the conventional sense when the final drive is influenced also by the main motor drive cog and its driven chainring...that driven chainring being the 53T or 63T. Didn't even take that into consideration on the surface...LOL!

marjoriefinnigan   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by marjoriefinnigan » Oct 08 2021 1:33am

Here's mine without battery and wearing road tyres, will get an image up later with battery and knobblies.
Love the cyc so far!
Image

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by raylo32 » Oct 08 2021 5:12am

Looks sweet! Where and how are you going to mount a battery on that frame?? I have similar problem on my old Stumpjumper. I tried it under the downtube with some rivnuts and wasn't totally happy with that. I also have another cable that I can switch to a battery in my backpack. My next plan is to use one of those clamp on rear racks to mount my super shark battery pack. Rack has 22 pound limit, battery weighs about 8 IIRC. But I'd use that only for road rides where the forces are less. Trail rides would need the backpack battery.
marjoriefinnigan wrote:
Oct 08 2021 1:33am
Here's mine without battery and wearing road tyres, will get an image up later with battery and knobblies.
Love the cyc so far!

marjoriefinnigan   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by marjoriefinnigan » Oct 08 2021 7:33am

Thanks:-)
Image
We had a good measure up with the fork spring out and made a custom 21700 3/14 pack with bms. It's a duct tape and zip tie test installation at moment so next job is to make a proper battery box.
Only really needed power level two at most on the trails, it's really got some pace. Level five wants to power wheelie and flip me :shock: :lol:

SlowCo   10 MW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by SlowCo » Oct 08 2021 8:33am

Very nice conversion :thumb:

marjoriefinnigan   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by marjoriefinnigan » Oct 08 2021 8:36am

Thanks very much :D

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by raylo32 » Oct 08 2021 8:57am

That's where I have the shark pack mount on my Stumpy... held on with rivnuts. I also add some velcro straps to help secure it. But I still don't trust it for serious MTB trail use. Duct tape sure will hold it, though. As for pace, yes. On trails with my X1 Pro level 1 or 2 only. On the road the sky's the limit! :-)

marjoriefinnigan   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by marjoriefinnigan » Oct 09 2021 4:21am

I'm amazed how good these motors are off road, we're having a blast. And the power available is just outrageous!
Belting around on a dh bike like it's a 20lb xc bike is hilarious:-)

Brothers...
Image

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by raylo32 » Oct 09 2021 5:16am

Do you find that the Stealth has a slight lag on the torque sensor? My X1 Pro Gen 2 does and I find it to be annoying. Just about 1/3 of a second or so (estimating) both on and off as I add pressure or remove pressure from the pedals. Adding pedal pressure it takes that time for power to appear, and easing pressure the power continues as if I were still pedaling for that 1/3 second. My other e-bike, TSDZ2 with OSF is much smoother and more seamless. I wonder if there are any adjustments in the CYC firmware that might improve this?
marjoriefinnigan wrote:
Oct 09 2021 4:21am
I'm amazed how good these motors are off road, we're having a blast. And the power available is just outrageous!
Belting around on a dh bike like it's a 20lb xc bike is hilarious:-)

Brothers...
Image

marjoriefinnigan   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by marjoriefinnigan » Oct 09 2021 6:05am

Yup, would say about a third of a turn, which doesn't bother me on the pick up, but the over run is a bit annoying and something we'd like to dial out.
The brake lever sensors aren't great either, so we haven't used them.

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by raylo32 » Oct 09 2021 6:31am

I have a problem with that delay on pickup... makes timing an effort over an obstacle tricky. Maybe I'll get used to it... or not.
marjoriefinnigan wrote:
Oct 09 2021 6:05am
Yup, would say about a third of a turn, which doesn't bother me on the pick up, but the over run is a bit annoying and something we'd like to dial out.
The brake lever sensors aren't great either, so we haven't used them.

klaus79856   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by klaus79856 » Oct 14 2021 8:11am

I had the Stealth on my 2020 Rocky Mountain Slayer Bike.
Was riding 2,5km with a 100m climb, only on throttle, speed about 30km/h and experienced a quick overheating of the motor to 74°C. After that motor only has about 500 Watt.

Repeated the test in PAS mode. Was able to climb more, aprox 250m before motor also overheated.

What performance have other users ?

marjoriefinnigan   1 mW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by marjoriefinnigan » Oct 17 2021 5:44am

Hi Klaus
Have done some pretty spirited rides on level 4 or 5 including longish steepish climbs just to see how it goes and no issues so far, but all with pas.
Brother has had some over power error messages ( forget the code, h8 maybe)come up needing a battery unplug to clear but it's been fine after that.

If you get a chance would you pop a photo up of your bike as an interested to see people's builds.
Currently thinking a mondraker summum may make be a good project bike, as loads of room in the frame for the battery.

HarMi   1 µW

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Re: CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

Post by HarMi » Oct 29 2021 1:07pm

My CYC Stealth installation. Battery rack is fastened to frame by Stauff clamps. Rack is made from polycarbonate and covered with Velcro tape. Bag of battery pack is also covered with velcro tape. Battery pack consist of two ZIPPY Compact 6200mAh 6s 40c batteries.
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Marino Hardtail with CYC Stealth
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Controller is located into safety place under the battery rack.
IMG_20211016_150324~2.jpg
Controller is installed under the battery rack.
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