Off Road Battery Size recommendation for BBSHD

geosped

100 W
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
258
What's the recommended battery for a day's worth of trail riding with a Bfang BBSHD? I only ride off road on Mountain Bike trails in North Georgia. Looking for recommendations on battery size for a BBSHD I'm going to run a 52v system. I typically wont ride for more than two hours at most. I would also like to store the battery under the seat.

What's everyone using and what would you recommend.
 
the only battery I've seen that's small enough to mount under the seat is one of the 6ah/52v packs.

personally I'm running an ebay 8ah/52v pack supposedly made of samsung 40Ts. I'm happy with the performance and range, just don't love the mounting options (frame bag), as I've worn through 2 of them already. on flat ground with a lower assist level I can likely get 40+ miles. On steep singletrack, it's probably about half that. These are estimates as I've never completely drained the pack from a full charge.

yesterday for example I went on a 'lazy' ride; 8.5 miles and probably 1200' of gain until I got a flat tire shortly after the end the climb (and then I walked back to a nearby trailhead and called my wife). Lazy means it felt like I used a lot assist. Started at 56v, it's now at 52v. If I'm doing the math right, I basically consumed 105wh, or ~12wh/mile...[56v-52v]/[56v-41v] * 56v*8ah.
 
COAR said:
the only battery I've seen that's small enough to mount under the seat is one of the 6ah/52v packs.

personally I'm running an ebay 8ah/52v pack supposedly made of samsung 40Ts. I'm happy with the performance and range, just don't love the mounting options (frame bag), as I've worn through 2 of them already. on flat ground with a lower assist level I can likely get 40+ miles. On steep singletrack, it's probably about half that. These are estimates as I've never completely drained the pack from a full charge.

yesterday for example I went on a 'lazy' ride; 8.5 miles and probably 1200' of gain until I got a flat tire shortly after the end the climb (and then I walked back to a nearby trailhead and called my wife). Lazy means it felt like I used a lot assist. Started at 56v, it's now at 52v. If I'm doing the math right, I basically consumed 105wh, or ~12wh/mile...[56v-52v]/[56v-41v] * 56v*8ah.
Running my BBSHD on 6Ah 52V battery, quickly heated up the battery. My only battery that gets hot and I seem to have trashed in less than a seasons usage.
 
169482335_10226491617416096_5551564061478547019_n.jpg
COAR said:
the only battery I've seen that's small enough to mount under the seat is one of the 6ah/52v packs.

personally I'm running an ebay 8ah/52v pack supposedly made of samsung 40Ts. I'm happy with the performance and range, just don't love the mounting options (frame bag), as I've worn through 2 of them already. on flat ground with a lower assist level I can likely get 40+ miles. On steep singletrack, it's probably about half that. These are estimates as I've never completely drained the pack from a full charge.

yesterday for example I went on a 'lazy' ride; 8.5 miles and probably 1200' of gain until I got a flat tire shortly after the end the climb (and then I walked back to a nearby trailhead and called my wife). Lazy means it felt like I used a lot assist. Started at 56v, it's now at 52v. If I'm doing the math right, I basically consumed 105wh, or ~12wh/mile...[56v-52v]/[56v-41v] * 56v*8ah.

Found a pic of somoene using your battery under the seat with a bag. The image is exactly what Im looking for. I asked him if he had a link to the bag. It does look huge and a tight fit but gives a nice neat look. Unfortunately dealing with all the extra wire on the BBSHD kit is gonna be another issue. right Now I'm able to hide all the access wire in my huge bag.

I average under 20 miles so that might actually be a great fit. I"m pretty much worn out at the end of my ride and I'm consistantly getting under 20 miles. Do you have any pics of how you have it mounted?


Is this the battery your using? This is the link from the battery used in the pic. https://www.ebay.com/.../52V-8ah-Samsung.../233342560598...

Another option that I've seen done with the smaller packs is put them in some sort of hard case and use a couple of aluminum cork screw hose clamps like found in cars. He had two attached to the downtube holding the battery in place but I definitely like the bag under the seat option the best. Kind of like the shark packs but just for the smaller form factor. Do you know if your battery comes with a BMS and how long have you had it and or how many miles do you have on it. I'm assuming the smaller packs aren't gonna last as long as they will probably work harder.
 
geosped said:
Thanks the last few rides I did were under 20 miles and I was worn out so that would be perfect for me. It is rather pricy for an 8ah though. At least compared to other larger packs that cost the same or less. Do you have any pics of how you have it mounted. This is the exact battery I was considering with the 40T's. Sounds like this would be a fit if I can get that pack to fit an a bag under the seat. I found a post in one of the BBSHD groups in Facebook that had this battery fit in a bag under his seat. Now it looked a little big but he was able to do it and it looked good. I'm gonna see if I can find that post. He hasn't responded on a link to the bag yet but he did post a pic. This is the same guy that's using the 8ha ebay 52v battery. https://www.ebay.com/.../52V-8ah-Samsung.../233342560598...

Another option that I've seen done with the smaller packs is put them in some sort of hard case and use a couple of aluminum cork screw hose clamps like found in cars. He had two attached to the downtube holding the battery in place but I definitely like the bag under the seat option the best. Does your battery come with a BMS and how long have you had it and or how many miles do you have on it. I'm assuming the smaller packs aren't gonna last as long as they will probably work harder.

the listing says it has a BMS...https://www.ebay.com/itm/52V-8ah-Samsung-40T-21700-lithium-battery-pack-for-electric-bicycle-EBIKE/233342560598?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

~200 miles on it so far over 2 months so can't really speak to longevity.

I just mounted it vertically in the frame bag. I did not want to go the seat mounting route as I have a dropper post and the battery and bag is about 6 lbs - lighter than most batteries but would definitely slow down the dropper a lot.

I love the utility of the frame bag - I can also fit a pump, .5 L of water, clif bar, bike tool, and my phone in there, just not the quality of this particular one.

LzvM195.jpg


b2AoJsv.jpg


If you want a size reference, the bike is a 17" surly instigator 2. the triangle looks to be about the same size, if not smaller than yours, but I obviously don't have a rear shock to contend with.
 
COAR said:
geosped said:
Thanks the last few rides I did were under 20 miles and I was worn out so that would be perfect for me. It is rather pricy for an 8ah though. At least compared to other larger packs that cost the same or less. Do you have any pics of how you have it mounted. This is the exact battery I was considering with the 40T's. Sounds like this would be a fit if I can get that pack to fit an a bag under the seat. I found a post in one of the BBSHD groups in Facebook that had this battery fit in a bag under his seat. Now it looked a little big but he was able to do it and it looked good. I'm gonna see if I can find that post. He hasn't responded on a link to the bag yet but he did post a pic. This is the same guy that's using the 8ha ebay 52v battery. https://www.ebay.com/.../52V-8ah-Samsung.../233342560598...

Another option that I've seen done with the smaller packs is put them in some sort of hard case and use a couple of aluminum cork screw hose clamps like found in cars. He had two attached to the downtube holding the battery in place but I definitely like the bag under the seat option the best. Does your battery come with a BMS and how long have you had it and or how many miles do you have on it. I'm assuming the smaller packs aren't gonna last as long as they will probably work harder.

the listing says it has a BMS...https://www.ebay.com/itm/52V-8ah-Samsung-40T-21700-lithium-battery-pack-for-electric-bicycle-EBIKE/233342560598?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

~200 miles on it so far over 2 months so can't really speak to longevity.

I just mounted it vertically in the frame bag. I did not want to go the seat mounting route as I have a dropper post and the battery and bag is about 6 lbs - lighter than most batteries but would definitely slow down the dropper a lot.

I love the utility of the frame bag - I can also fit a pump, .5 L of water, clif bar, bike tool, and my phone in there, just not the quality of this particular one.

LzvM195.jpg


b2AoJsv.jpg


If you want a size reference, the bike is a 17" surly instigator 2. the triangle looks to be about the same size, if not smaller than yours, but I obviously don't have a rear shock to contend with.

We have very similar setups except I have a 13lb battery which really kills the nimble feeling. I went with recommendations from others and it's just not what I'm looking for. The bike is HEAVY!
 

Attachments

  • 123245014_10224383712370087_8240859962989023038_n.jpg
    123245014_10224383712370087_8240859962989023038_n.jpg
    177.5 KB · Views: 1,876
  • 124772581_10224458357876178_2227783449113704648_n.jpg
    124772581_10224458357876178_2227783449113704648_n.jpg
    206 KB · Views: 1,876
  • 162026784_10225507622427136_6117988137772927272_n.jpg
    162026784_10225507622427136_6117988137772927272_n.jpg
    53.7 KB · Views: 1,876
HrKlev said:
Just wondering, why would you want to mount the battery at the highest possible place? Doesnt sound like the best location for the type of riding you do. Why not in the frame triangle?

I've seen a lot of people actually put a small pack around there waste in a large panni pack or even in their backpack. My kit actually came with an extension cord so you could do that if you wanted. I could certainly put in in a smaller bag or just use the bag I have like COAR. Ultimately what will determine the placement is rideability. If I cant feel a difference with the battery under the seat I'll leave it there because aesthetically it looks a lot better but if I feel the the rideability is compromised then Ill swap it back into the bag. I like being discreet as possible when i'm riding. Besides I'm not taking full advantage of the capabilities of the bike I doubt I will feel a big difference but will certainly try it. Looking at both picks to me I like the minimalist look a lot better.
 
13lbs is a monster. That + the bbshd and I'd guess your bike is in the mid to high 50s. Mine is barely under 50 and it's a lot heavier than I'd like.

I'm all for optimizing performance but I don't think the seat mounted battery would even be noticeable unless you're riding really aggressively. Moving your body just a few inches forwards or back will affect CoG a lot more than ~6 lbs attached to the seat.
 
Yeah it's way too heavy especially considering this is a light cross country bike with only 100mm of travel. Assuming I can ever sell it. Next build will be a 29er trail bike with a smaller 8ah 52v pack. The BBSHD provides way to much torque it's actually to much power. The throttle control is not precise at all it's either on or off and kind of sucks. It's taking 3 months to get it to where i can kind of control it. Im Wondering if the smaller BBS02 would be a better choice it's got less power and it's several pounds lighter. Or the TenShong kit. But at the end of the day im really enjoying the benefits of an ebike. It's been bullet proof so far. It climbs like a goat and love having the throttle as an option although I try not to use it only when I get really tired or fatigued. Would be awesome if they could somehow address the throttle sensitivity and or reduce the weight without compromising durability.
 
Having the weight on your body (backpack) is very different from having it mounted to the bike, in a good way. Its a PITA to always remember the backpack, and having the battery cables hanging around, though. Its your build, but I would reccomend that you keep the options open to mount it back into the triangle. When you flick your bike around you want that weight as low as possible (or on your body), and not hard mounted to the highest point of the bike.

My first bike was also a 50++ lbs monster with way too much battery and motor. Didnt take long before I figured I wanted less weight, and Im having way more fun now with a 1/5th of the power, half the battery, torque sensing and proper shocks. Im using about 250-350wh for a 2-3 h ride (that is about 5-7Ah for a 52V pack), but it depends on how much assistance I want of course. If you want a "lightweight" build you kind of accept that you need to adjust the assistance after how much battery is left.
 
About throttle sensitivity, did you read this solution?

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=93977
 
banzai said:
About throttle sensitivity, did you read this solution?

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=93977

Yeah Ive read through bits and pieces but I'm not a big fan of digging through the potted material and potently screwing up my controller. I'm still tweaking the settings on my display. There is a Throttle Limit where you can adjust the start current limit and this seems to tone down the jerkieness quite a bit still tinkering with this. I think I have it set to where it's by no way perfect but manageable only because I've gotten used to it. I'm not gonna do the hardware fix and I haven't read through all of the post to see what needs to be done with the firmware fix. I need to see what all is involved for that.
 
Consider that you don't need to dig in the grey silicon, you can also put the small circuit in any place before the throttle and have two wires going back to the pas connector inside the controller. It's a less "elegant" solution but it's exactly the same.
 
Incase anyone comes across this older post. Out of the 5 people that I have met riding mountain bikes on trails each of us has said that the battery they have is way to big. In other words if your new to emtb and all you want to do is ride your mountain bike for a couple of hours and around 20 miles you do NOT need a 10ah or larger pack.

I only ride trails from intermediate to expert trails 2 to 3 times a week in North Georgia we have a lot of single track and cross country riding but it's never flat. I get over 20 miles and at least towards the end of the ride I use throttle a lot more and have my PAS settings set to 3 or 4 most of the ride. Then this battery is highly recommended.



52V **8ah** Samsung 40T - 21700 lithium battery pack for electric bicycle, EBIKE
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233342560598?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item36544ce956:g:lk4AAOSwuz1bY3dR&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSRAQR8FABHjfpFoyRlXhWmXh3XG2Dl7ifBaRWn%252Ffo8zBrf4QdC8bIH3kEDgys6dOA7veLmf90jod9P85MP7pQrT4bVN84MEeoFu13HPAq%252Fsb7ew%252B3llG5uNL0lHupsb4bbRe5Ji6v3O%252B4fLpyRy7mmmUvc%252Bx%252FheAoo5G%252B0yVNI02WS%252FG8Rnt38WQAJ6seykOgYQbIw%252BfvPJgwEHL64zJjkFhN2%252BT1TF4tz5EKR4O%252BD2Of%252Bkup21zTvmptmY7UabMcGemG%252BYSREFY3jAxXZ%252BTQZNFUIDjn5XT%252BETvh5LLVf0JR2%252F%252BMj7FZNdiMMYYaCKlH1ZWR0ldVS3YQqcYke6OpcjqaBLqv4%252FPCs%252BqSj9SGbfxKfHAW8VIkDw%252FEaMkFMAbJu01Chu69o0CPCvjEZDQx0kRcKAPXvDeUU2QxPF81z1OG3Vg0xmAon%252FXyxiXrtv4qRT856RnmtiFpLOx3J9CsYerrFQx4UW5IWe3AWAcclPBw6Fu2naMSYvFnFQ6IT%252F%252B4raPvpjmK5PvczXt6HN2gpuMoUN5fAqRPib%252FMGxoeWOFVEMkUSiOiXCMaiowb%252F4MumxX6KZGre8SmqpQtzc3EItfRzCMrOEtGm97m50vjObunXpVCGEEEocdiC%252BT7pDOlpxyewDZ7gIqrG2ss2mELUuXSfbU1jTKstxgSAz%252Bvfb6A6XFrSMQNc1IAdZld6qkpsFXpVmKlP8Z4fl0TYsAfI6v%252FkgMfS7ocQDP1maLOnkE0sNTHCVEcFUpXYgl8kBZQ%252FfivgVYfav1Yly77jlS00kj%252Bi6JNY9EN%252F7lT5mOkDN7eX1BmPddjNTNPpd1JoroR%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524

These cells are much bigger than the typically 1850's and they have a high discharge rate capable of supporting 30a which is a little over the 28a which is what the BBSHD has. I have about 20 full charges on it now since April and it's been fantastic. The battery weighs 5.8lbs so considerably less than my 17ah EM3EV battery. According to my
 
The only caveat is if you ride your bike more like a low powered dirt bike (heavy throttle, light pedaling) you'd probably benefit from a bigger pack. I did 20 miles on mine last weekend (probably 1200 ft of elevation gain) and still had around 40% charge remaining. I know this isn't relevant to the FS guys (as most don't have the triangle room anyway), but the only downside for me is it didn't come in a shark pack ready to slap on the frame. I tore out 2 different frame bags, then finally spent a fair amount of time fabricating a custom battery holder. I'm happy with the set up now, but I would've gladly paid 50 bucks more to avoid the hassle.
 
I've used a Bushwacker Tacoma seat bag (Amazon about $15) with a 52V, 6 ah battery for my BBS02 (PAS only off road) and it's fine for 15 miles. Plenty of room to insulate the battery from shock with dense foam.
 
In my experience:
the battery pack should be as securely mounted as possible; especially off-road so that it doesn't shift around while riding over obstacles. If you must use a frame bag; make sure the battery is padded on the top, sides, front and back with foam etc.. the bottom should be padded with something like a strip of rubber so that is doesn't compress over time.
 
geosped, I know we've talked before about these bikes, but there are so many on different sites I can't keep up with who's who. On the touchiness of your BBSHD in terms of throttle response, have you programmed the controller? I'm a pretty serious mountain biker also, and I too found the motor way too unpredictable in overrun and shutoff to be pleasant off road...but you get similar results from the BBS02 when unprogrammed for serious off roading where you're constantly on and off the pedals or throttle for trees, rocks, turning, etc. After programming and taming down the power delivery in stages from 0-9, I find my BBSHD to almost rival our shop's Trek Rail 7 demo bike. Nothing will ever beat a torque sensor for off road, but the BBSHD can be tuned to a somewhat amazing level IMO...and it's not hard. With brake and shift sensors and proper programming, the BBSHD can be a pussycat in the lower PAS levels and still hit 40 mph on the pavement in 9 if you want. And I agree, the throttle programming as delivered is ridiculous in terms of power...like a light switch. That too can be toned down to be more useful.

geosped, in reading your description about the throttle, are you referring to that issue in some Bafangs where the throttle and pedal assist will not work at the same time?...or...are you just talking about how brutal the throttle power delivery is as delivered? My BBSHD came in early spring with both features working, and apparently that is not a consistent issue anymore where both don't work together. It seems to have occurred in production runs for awhile, but then it didn't...strange. I got mine earlier this year from Bafang USA, so it's not just a Luna tweak that got both throttle and pedal assist to work at the same time.
 
2old said:
...insulate the battery from shock with dense foam.

pwd said:
In my experience:
...padded on the top, sides, front and back with foam etc...

So IMO it's unnecessary to add foam unless you really want the extra insurance against direct impact. Shark packs don't have foam, power tool batteries don't have foam, and as far I'm aware, even Tesla packs don't have any. When I was building my battery box I did some quick googling and found a study that basically said 18650 cells have good impact/vibration resistance (although mine are 21700, I'd say it's still applicable). I had 1/2" of a foam camping pad surrounding my battery initially, and I think that's what contributed to the frame bag failure - the wider profile put a lot more stress on the zipper and fabric.
 
My riding is off road on pretty tortuous terrain and IMO any extra protection of the battery from bouncing against a seatpost (or frame tube with a battery in the triangle) is a good idea (my batteries were "bricks" until the last one from Luna).
 
Good example above ^^

COAR said:
So IMO it's unnecessary to add foam unless you really want the extra insurance against direct impact. Shark packs don't have foam, power tool batteries don't have foam, and as far I'm aware, even Tesla packs don't have any...

In addition to impact and vibration resistance; I'm suggesting the foam padding and rubber bottom around the pack to take up the extra space and limit how much the pack will shift around inside a triangle bag.
 
TNC said:
geosped, I know we've talked before about these bikes, but there are so many on different sites I can't keep up with who's who. On the touchiness of your BBSHD in terms of throttle response, have you programmed the controller? I'm a pretty serious mountain biker also, and I too found the motor way too unpredictable in overrun and shutoff to be pleasant off road...but you get similar results from the BBS02 when unprogrammed for serious off roading where you're constantly on and off the pedals or throttle for trees, rocks, turning, etc. After programming and taming down the power delivery in stages from 0-9, I find my BBSHD to almost rival our shop's Trek Rail 7 demo bike. Nothing will ever beat a torque sensor for off road, but the BBSHD can be tuned to a somewhat amazing level IMO...and it's not hard. With brake and shift sensors and proper programming, the BBSHD can be a pussycat in the lower PAS levels and still hit 40 mph on the pavement in 9 if you want. And I agree, the throttle programming as delivered is ridiculous in terms of power...like a light switch. That too can be toned down to be more useful.

geosped, in reading your description about the throttle, are you referring to that issue in some Bafangs where the throttle and pedal assist will not work at the same time?...or...are you just talking about how brutal the throttle power delivery is as delivered? My BBSHD came in early spring with both features working, and apparently that is not a consistent issue anymore where both don't work together. It seems to have occurred in production runs for awhile, but then it didn't...strange. I got mine earlier this year from Bafang USA, so it's not just a Luna tweak that got both throttle and pedal assist to work at the same time.
Yeah I'm all over the map lol in terms of posting. It seems like there are a lot fewer people that use these fourms that contribute that I would have hoped. In terms of throttle delivery I'm referring to the harsh on/off feel you get when when you press the throttle. I use the EggRider v2 and have programmed two settings that have helped out quite a bit. Under Bafang throttle settings: Basic section the start current limit% I set mine to 6 the default is 10 and set it to Current. Under Advanced, Throttle Mode I set it to Current. What I've done is just trained my self to try and apply as little pressure as possible prior to the section I need to throttle up in before I actually need it so that way when I hit the root lets say I dont jerk the throttle to get me over. I'm already applying throttle before I actually hit it.

I have not been able to find a definitive guide of how to setup my settings to smooth out the jerkiness when applying the throttle. If you have screen shots or some post that clearly identifies what settings to configure that would be of great help.
I use assist and throttle at the same time I dont have that issue just pressing the throttle button seems very jerky. I use the 9 levels of PAS set to Off Road. I typically stay on 3 or 4. See the attachment the two settings I mention have helped quite a bit. But if there is something out there that's better and smoother then I'd want to try that.
EGv2.png

I've actually replaced the blue bike and no longer have that huge 17ah pack in the triangle. I've gone to a much smaller 8ah 52v pack. I dont have it mounted in the ideal spot but I dont think I notice the 5lbs weight under my saddle. It would make more sense to place it directly above the motor to lower the COG but this is going to require me to build a custom bracket and mount and I'm too lazy. I have several heavy duty zipties securing it making it a bit less sloppy to bounce around.
 

Attachments

  • batpack.jpg
    batpack.jpg
    387.6 KB · Views: 1,271
If you're using the common Wuxing 130X throttle, understand that it is part of your problem. Not all throttles are equal in how they deliver signal to the controller, and this common kind of throttle is particularly abrupt.

41uFjq76f9L._AC_SX425_.jpg
 
Chalo said:
If you're using the common Wuxing 130X throttle, understand that it is part of your problem. Not all throttles are equal in how they deliver signal to the controller, and this common kind of throttle is particularly abrupt.

41uFjq76f9L._AC_SX425_.jpg
Figures that looks like exactly what I have. Is there a difference between the thumb throttle and 1/2 throttle grip? I havent tried the throttle grip yet. Just wondering if how much of a difference that would make and clear up a bit of clutter in the cockpit.
 
Back
Top