TSDZ2 750W no more powerful than 250W

Gully.Moy

1 mW
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
16
Hi. I recently fitted my partner with a 750w 48v TSDZ2, with the standard (VLC5 I think) display. I haven't put the throttle on and would rather avoid it, so just peddle assist at the moment. Also haven't looked into settings yet and custom firmware etc.

It works ok, but just doesn't seem to have much poke, even on 'Turbo'. Now beforehand, my landlord wanted an e-bike so I recommended the TSDZ2, only having read about it. She got a 250W 36V fitted, so I've had the opportunity to ride both now directly after one another. I really couldn't say the 750 feels any more powerful at all than the 250, my partner says she thinks it's less powerful! I feel like I shouldn't have to go down the custom firmware route to feel the difference at 3 x nominal power. So what's up, do I have to unlock the power? Have I been sent the wrong unit?

The motor doesn't state the power but says 48V 4,000 RPM. There doesn't seem to be any model number but maybe a serial number, could this be decoded to check it's the right motor? Battery is brand new 48V 13AH, purchased together from PSW Power, and capacity indicator doesn't falter on hills etc. so confident battery is keeping up.

I ride a BBS02 750 which feels altogether different but of course peddle sensor is completely different.

Thanks for any insight!
 
Gully.Moy said:
.....
The motor doesn't state the power but says 48V 4,000 RPM. ...
For Tsdz2 there are just two motor types.
36V 4000RPM and 48 4000RPM
The powerspecs are the same for one motor type
36V-500W - 48V-750W.
The current is hardware limited 18A, so it is possible to get 36V- 650W 48V- 860W and with a full loaded battery 42V-750W 54V- 970W
(I will not say anything about heat in that case, because the tsdz2 had a very bad heat management)

I think you can only feel the support difference if you need much power (like uphill).
As long as you need power below 500W there will be no difference between these motortypes.
With the same current the 48V type delivers more power. Under light conditions the 48V type need less current and keeps cooler.

If you feel the 48V is less powerfull than the 36V type, it could be that the torque sensor has a small range.
With custom FW it is possible to correct this to a certain level, but if it is really bad you need to do a hardware calibration by disassembling the motor.
 
You say there are just two types, but I see advertised 250, 350, 500, and 750w in various combinations with 36, 48 and 52v. Are you saying that some of these are false variants (same motor just marketed differently/reprogrammed)? The person who fitted the TSDZ2 36V to landlady's bike said it's 250W

What you're saying would make sense, if the extra power just comes when you need it. Maybe that's it.

"Change the max amps setting to something higher. There's a chance that might have an effect."

- I think this might need custom firmware and given the heat management issues TSDZ2 I'd rather avoid overclocking the motor anyway. Just thought a big power difference would be more palpable..
 
Gully.Moy said:
You say there are just two types, but I see advertised 250, 350, 500, and 750w in various combinations with 36, 48 and 52v. Are you saying that some of these are false variants (same motor just marketed differently/reprogrammed)? ...
Yes, just marketing. Why 250W?, because this is the nominal power you may use in Europe. But nominal power isn't maximal power.
You can program the stock FW for a higher Voltage. 48V input for 36V motor and 52V input for a 48V motor and call it "overdrive"
The size of the bare motors are exactly the same only the copper windings of the 36V and 48V are different. It is no problem to exchange them, because all mechanics and controller are exactly the same.
But imho better is to flash OSF, so you can configure the limits yourself as you want. The advantage of an higher Voltage is that for the same power you need less current and your motor stays cooler..

Gully.Moy said:
...if the extra power just comes when you need it. ...
Yes. Imagine a 250W lightbulb and you have a 500W generator and a 1000W generator.....
On both the bulb will shine exactly the same, because both generators can easely deliver 250W what the bulb is asking, but if you try a lightbulb from 750W, you find that the bulb only will shine on that big generator. The small can't deliver enough power.
The dynamics for delevering the power you need, is done by the torque sensor. Unfortunately there are big differences with regard to its sensitivity.

Gully.Moy said:
"Change the max amps setting to something higher. There's a chance that might have an effect."
On stock FW it is not possible to limit the power with the Amp settings. With OSF you can.

Gully.Moy said:
- I think this might need custom firmware and given the heat management issues TSDZ2 I'd rather avoid overclocking...
With 48V Tsdz2 you have a reasonable window to configurate OSF the motor for your use. If you improve the heatdissipation with heatconductive materials and maybe add some extra bearings for less play of the axle, you can get a lot of fun.
 
I have the same experience - first I installed 48V 750W version on my bike, and a year later a 36V 350W version on my wife's bike.
Power-wise, those both feel about the same. Being said that, i think that power is adequate on both bikes - I have some pretty steep hils around my house, and i can climb it with my 100 kg+ without problems. This motor has other problems - one is lack of proper heat dissipation (I put some heat conducting squishy pads between the motor and the outer casing, it seems fine afterwards). The other problem is of mechanical nature, causing extensive play in the sprocket after few hunderd kilometers (it was in my case, but I found many similar complaints from other users).
 
Nick2 said:
.....The other problem is of mechanical nature, causing extensive play in the sprocket after few hunderd kilometers (it was in my case, but I found many similar complaints from other users).
Put some extra (sealed) 6902 bearings on both sides of the axle and that mechanical play is gone.
On the non drive side you can put one bearing behind the rubber seal or two bearings with removed rubber seal.
Inside the spider on the drive side you can fit one bearing instead of the rubber seal.
 
I did all that (after the torque sensor failed), and it seems to work fine now. Didn't want to elaborate too much here, as it was already explained in details in another thread.
 
Lots of great info here, thanks. Not sure I'll get around to modding the motor unfortunately due to time constraints, though I'd enjoy doing so. But it seems a shame that TongSheng didn't pre-empt these issues in the first place.

Elinx said:
The dynamics for delevering the power you need, is done by the torque sensor. Unfortunately there are big differences with regard to its sensitivity.
Are you stating that there are manufacturing inconsistencies affecting the sensitivity of the torque sensor resulting in variable performance between units? That seems a shame too. Glad my own bike has a BBS02 instead.
 
Gully.Moy said:
....
Are you stating that there are manufacturing inconsistencies affecting the sensitivity of the torque sensor resulting in variable performance between units? That seems a shame too. Glad my own bike has a BBS02 instead.
Yes, it is, but the tsdz2 is one of the cheapest with torquesensor and also to get reasonble priced spare parts for it.
The service repairs are well documented, I think just because of the custom OSF.
But on the other hand, indeed Bafang BBS units are more reliable, but missing the torque sensing.
 
I found the 'Power Setting (A)' in the display's 'hidden setting', stock firmware. The default setting is 16 and goes up to 32. I can't find much about what the setting actually changes, some people seem to suggest it is Amps, some people that it's degrees of it's full power.

So I am wondering how safe this is to change, specifically to the max!? The TSDZ2 cuts out when it overheats right?.. So there is some kind of thermal safety cut off? i.e. I don't mind making the safety kick in and having to wait for it to cool, but I'm not too keen on burning the motor out!
 
Gully.Moy said:
I found the 'Power Setting (A)' in the display's 'hidden setting', stock firmware. The default setting is 16 and goes up to 32. I can't find much about what the setting actually changes, some people seem to suggest it is Amps, some people that it's degrees of it's full power.

So I am wondering how safe this is to change, specifically to the max!? The TSDZ2 cuts out when it overheats right?.. So there is some kind of thermal safety cut off? i.e. I don't mind making the safety kick in and having to wait for it to cool, but I'm not too keen on burning the motor out!

The standard motor has no temperature sensing nor protection. To get that you need to install the sensor by yourself and connect it to throttle input and use the Open Source Firmware. Controller amps are limited to 18A, so changing the settings won't get higher than that. You can safely try to change the setting to max and drive around for a few minutes, but if you notice a significant power increase, it might not be a good idea to go climb the biggest hill you know with full power.
 
Without using the OSF stuff and the jar configurator, one can expect that Street mode is enabled thus restricitng the power to 250w.
 
hemo said:
Without using the OSF stuff and the jar configurator, one can expect that Street mode is enabled thus restricitng the power to 250w.
No. Streetmode function is a feature of OSF only.
 
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