CYC X1 Pro Gen 2 vs Cyclone 6kW

myhrmans

10 µW
Joined
Jul 2, 2021
Messages
5
Hi there.

Im building a MTB 29" full suspension from the ground up.

I've been looking at different options for mid-drive motors and have found a lot of people use either Bafang or
Cyclone and CYC.

Bafang requires special mounting so that is out of the question for now.

I then looked at the CYC X1 Pro Gen 2 with the BAC2000 or the Cyclone 6kW with the 200a phase controller they supply.

https://www.cycmotor.com/x1-pro-gen-2
https://www.cyclone-tw.com/product/6/data/138

The Cyclone is almost half the price, but less torque but still looks like it's bigger and therefore would actually handle the 5kw+ better than the CYC. But the CYC looks to have better components.

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with the newer versions of these (2021 versions). I've read a lot of people with issues but that are the gen 1 version and probably an older cyclone.

Any thoughts or feedback is appreciated!
 
No experience with the Cyclone but the big difference I see from the CYC is that the Cyclone does not appear to have a torque sensor. Depending on where and how you like to ride that may be a deal breaker... or not I suppose. If you want it to ride like a real bike, especially on technical terrain, the torque sensor is a must, IMO. But in a way it makes sense not to have one because at 125 kph you aren't going to be pedaling with any gear combination that would fit on the bike anyway.
 
This is the smaller cyclone aka 3000w cyclone. Power handling ability is same, build quality is better for cyc, still not perfect. Cyclone is obviously cheaper.
The bac2000 is not a perfect fit for the cyc, it cuts out on sudden hard loads. (Yes even the manufacturer does not have a working config for their own motor.)

Ger the cyc if you have a (I think only) pressfit compatible bike and want a torque sensor, and looks weight are important to you. Otherwise get the cheaper one.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Would it be possible to install an external torque sensor for the cyclone?
Like the erider T9?
 
Tommm said:
The bac2000 is not a perfect fit for the cyc, it cuts out on sudden hard loads. (Yes even the manufacturer does not have a working config for their own motor.)

Interesting.. yes that sounds very wierd that they haven't figured that out yet.
The cyc is available in BB 68-83 as well which is what my frame has.

You have any downsides with the cyclone?
 
I don't know if the firmware can be changed to support it... but if it can it'd be easier to just get a CYC torque sensor bottom bracket. They sell them for about $100 IIRC. Although shipping from HK is heinously $$.

https://www.cycmotor.com/product-page/torque-sensor-bb-for-68-83mm-100mm-bottom-bracket-version

myhrmans said:
Thanks for the replies.

Would it be possible to install an external torque sensor for the cyclone?
Like the erider T9?
 
I have just received the cyclone 6kw and the 80A Bluetooth controller they match with it- looks to be possibly 24FET. Has some options for PAS and I think they have them at the cyclone shop.

It’s a physically large motor, about 25mm longer than the cyclone 3kw but not much heavier; apparently it has steel gears rather than nylon. The extra core size should make it significantly more powerful. The controller is also seriously upsized; this looks more like a motorbike or go cart size setup.

This is the issue though- with either motor at 5kw you will put immense stress on a bicycle rear hub, chains, sprockets derailleurs etc. this is why I’m going dual chain with a left hand drive on the next project.
 
raylo32 said:
I don't know if the firmware can be changed to support it... but if it can it'd be easier to just get a CYC torque sensor bottom bracket. They sell them for about $100 IIRC. Although shipping from HK is heinously $$.
https://www.cycmotor.com/product-page/torque-sensor-bb-for-68-83mm-100mm-bottom-bracket-version

Will definitely look into this. Mailing Cyclone to see if they have tried doing something similar.
 
By usin the cyc torque sensing bb and their freewheel and a cycle analyst to process the PAS input, you can have torque sensing on pretty much any mid drive. Might need more or less custom fabrication, depends on the setup.
 

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electric_nz said:
I have just received the cyclone 6kw and the 80A Bluetooth controller they match with it- looks to be possibly 24FET. Has some options for PAS and I think they have them at the cyclone shop.

It’s a physically large motor, about 25mm longer than the cyclone 3kw but not much heavier; apparently it has steel gears rather than nylon. The extra core size should make it significantly more powerful. The controller is also seriously upsized; this looks more like a motorbike or go cart size setup.

This is the issue though- with either motor at 5kw you will put immense stress on a bicycle rear hub, chains, sprockets derailleurs etc. this is why I’m going dual chain with a left hand drive on the next project.


So the 6kw is another motor, right? It is NOT just the 3kw with metal gears. It is that correct?
Please share some photos of the motor and your setup

Thank you!
 
Brazilian boy asks,
So the 6kw is another motor, right? It is NOT just the 3kw with metal gears. It is that correct?
Please share some photos of the motor and your setup

Thank you!

Yes, the 6k Cyclone motor kit comes with both a bigger motor than the 3K motor and a much bigger controller -- 80 amps. I have replaced two 3K Cyclones with the Cyclone 6k motors & 80 amp controllers. The increase in felt performance is readily noticeable. And I have the CycleAnlyst for the dashboard. The Cyclone 3K controller output on difficult hills comes at max 43 amps. 43 amps x 72 volts = 3096 watts.

The 6k Cyclone motor/controller system CycleAnalyst readout has read max 79.48 amps. Running 21s LiPo for batts gives 79.48 amps x 84 volt = 6676 watt.

The biggest hard to detect problem with the 6k Cyclone setup is a solder melt down in the controller/motor phase plug. The yellow 3 wire plug cannot handle 80 amp. The solder will melt and run out on one phase wire but the wire will stay in place. This lack of a metallic bonded electrical joint will lead to brief intermittent motor stalling as the wire is loose but gets enough gravity/congestion contact to run the motor most of the time.

IMG_1045.JPG
 
Thanks for the info.

Yes they are rated to 60A. I am still deciding if I get this Cyclone 6kw or QSMOTOR 3000W mid drive but make a bracket to mount on bike will be a pain in the bottom I think

Do you know anyone who can who sell the bracket or have at least the 3D model for this motor? Anything that would help me I'd be very grateful.
 
You ask Cyclone 6k or QS3000? Likely, the best deals for your $$$ and time/skills are the Cyclone kits. Bare motor installations take far more more effort /resourcefulness than merely getting the 3D print file of the motor fame.
 
DingusMcGee said:
You ask Cyclone 6k or QS3000? Likely, the best deals for your $$$ and time/skills are the Cyclone kits. Bare motor installations take far more more effort /resourcefulness than merely getting the 3D print file of the motor fame.
Thanks for answering me. Your knowledge on Cyclone motors is priceless :)

Yes between those motors I am undecided. I am trying to convince myself that I can learn fusion 360, make a model and send the bracket to a water jet shop to have a bracket cut in stainless steel and mount on the bike. :lol:
I might be overestimating my skill and perhaps too much ambition :lol:

All of this is just for the QS Motor! The Cyclone as you said, is Plug and Play.

I just don't want to spend the money on the Cyclone for later regret for lack of power. I am riding on Lipos so plenty of headroom.

Is the Cyclone powerful for street riding and Occasional offroad?
I don't mind having the gears and chains of my bike destroyed
 
Brazilian boy,

It is hard to imagine anyone overly dissatisfied with the Cyclone 6k and suffering buyers remorse. But some folks want less power and more breakdowns -- to wit: see all the threads here about breakdowns and torque sensors. With Cyclone 6k builds you have access to an evolving history of Cyclone 3k improvements pertinent to the 6k. But it has been noted by others that those that forget history are condemned to repeat it.

About a year ago all 3 of my evolving edirtbikes had Cyclone motors-- mind ya all were 3k's. The coming of the Cyclone 6k was the game changer for dirtbiking -- one speed will do it all with no secondary chain reduction. After installing the 2nd 6k I wanted more power for the third edirtbike and inserted the QS 3000. The QS 3000 bike is not for the casual rider -- 14,000 watts and it can take 30,000 watts with a bigger controller.

When it comes to edirtbiking, there are trade offs among bike weight, power and skills to suit a given terrain. It seems something bigger than the 6k and smaller than QS 3000 was the knick I did not have a bike suited. I choose the QS 2000. It offers some 25% more power than a standard Cyclone 6k.

QS 2000 build features:

Can employ copies of some parts of the Cyclone motor frame in the build.

The motor frame will hold the motor just out of the way of front wheel shock travel. This forward position will lessen wheelie initiations.

The motor frame hinges in the middle and allows for easy chain tightening.

And there is something in the design for those that hate the planetary Gearbox of the Cyclone motor. I hope I can enjoy the noise the secondary chain drive adds. Here is a preview....


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