Haibike EQ Trekking, Bosch drive.

She arrived yesterday and I've done about 60 odd miles.

Here's the bike.



I couldn't figure out what this was at first, it's a 3 speed Sram hub. I didn't know that was part of the spec and it works good it's really cool to be able to change gear while stopped or while under power.

I guess it is to replace the 3 ring crank, I would imagine with this kind of gearing it would climb walls.



















Some views of the countryside.



The warmest summer in nearly a Decade, 20 deg C when I set out and 28 when I got back. I'm loving it, it's even hit 30 that's 86 F a few times. It's amazing having sunshine and warmth!

I encountered these eyesores on the way.

2.5 MW each. Nordex N90. They stand 80 meters tall. And they want to build 180 meter high turbines in the Midlands !!!

Anyone who says these things make no noise should be shot !

What amazed me is this last few days is unusually calm for Ireland yet they still turn! crazy !

It seems as there is some kind of drag while trying to pedal without motor power, I don't know whether ot not to put it down to the extra weight of the pike and being used to no motor and battery weight the last few months ?

I made this video. It free wheels fine, but while peddling with the motor off it makes some kind of noise and if it was true free wheel pedal it should make no noise because noise means friction doesn't it ?

have a listen to this ?

Now the motor isn't that noisy I just had the phone almost on top of the motor to pick up the noise.

This is without motor power and then with motor power.

[youtube]DUoQ3hADTkU[/youtube]

what do ye make of this ?

I set off with about 85% battery charge as indicated by the led's on the battery.

I ended up with this when I got home, I had to use the motor more than I would have liked because of my dodgy knees.

At the top of the steep long climb the motor was warm but far from hot, but that's from the cover, it has a thermal cut out but I doubt I would need it.

The trick is to keep the motor in the efficiency zone by using the gears properly just like a manual car, and I try not change under power, but the hub works perfectly under power. I could see the attraction to the nuvinci hub indeed !



I estimate I could get close to 60+ miles with hills.

The bike is of excellent quality but I'm worried about the drag I think I feel, it's certainly not as free as my unassisted bike and I don't know if it's down to the weight ? the noise when there is no motor power means to me there is unnecessary friction ?

Make no mistake, the Bosch system will make you work and I like that and I knew that when I bought the bike, but when I turned off the motor on the steepest of the climb I knew how much I appreciated the motor, it would literally pull me up a wall I would say with the 3 speed hub especially.

Now I have to take it on the 16-18% that fried the halls in the Magic Pie Motor. If it can do that it will do anything.

The Bosch has all the power you are ever likely to need for a pedal bike for someone who wants to pedal a lot like me, for the power hungry folks here on ES I think you'll be avoiding this motor.

As per my first Bosch review I can honestly say I don't miss a throttle and the jerkiness, the Bosch is super smooth and just matches your input perfectly.

Here is the trip data, note My starting elevation is around 250 feet not 450 odd as the graph shows.

I read a lot, and I keep hearing good things about the Panasonic and Bosch drives (both drives similar to each other). Low amp-draw means that these bikes are not battery-limited, and a 12-Ah pack is truly enough without stressing the pack.

I wish they made the controller so that it's a "legal" 750W 36V / 20a system here in the USA, but if you open the controller (voiding the warranty), and installed a couple jumpers, it would be a 48V 25A system.

I like how the frame passes under the motor for protection from curbs, etc...

It was an expensive bike so I think there will be no modding this one.

I think though its more than powerful enough and more power isn't really needed, maybe it would be nice but it isn't needed.

There are 4 modes, Eco, tour,sport and turbo, and in the lower power mode you can gear down and it will still pull strong and it will improve battery life even more. I wasn't too concerned though because I knew I had plenty of battery even with 85% charge. 34 miles was a fair bit and much more and you'd need an hour break or so to rest.

I would easily have got another 10 miles with hills maybe 20 on the flat, all depends on the effort you intend to put in and that's what I like about the bosch, it will make you put in effort and I think that's a good thing as even a little effort is much better than none and I think that was part of the idea of the E.U limit, I mean why bother having a bicycle if you get no exercise ?

Did anyone listen to the noise in the video with the motor off ?

spinningmagnets said:

I read a lot, and I keep hearing good things about the Panasonic and Bosch drives (both drives similar to each other). Low amp-draw means that these bikes are not battery-limited, and a 12-Ah pack is truly enough without stressing the pack.

I wish they made the controller so that it's a "legal" 750W 36V / 20a system here in the USA, but if you open the controller (voiding the warranty), and installed a couple jumpers, it would be a 48V 25A system.

I like how the frame passes under the motor for protection from curbs, etc...

Click to expand...

deleted

Maybe the 3 speed hub gives the drag you feel ? I once (to my shame ) cycled about 20km on a Panasonic
drive Flyer with a 7 speed hub, shutting down the motor was like throwing out an anchor...

Lebowski said:

Maybe the 3 speed hub gives the drag you feel ? I once (to my shame ) cycled about 20km on a Panasonic
drive Flyer with a 7 speed hub, shutting down the motor was like throwing out an anchor...

Click to expand...

never thought it could be that but I am more inclined to think it's to do with the noise I hear in the video, which in the beginning is with me peddling with no motor power, so there is some kind of friction there somewhere.

But maybe it is the hub ? I would like to think that if it was the hub that it would loosen up after a few miles ?

I mean there are two freewheels up front by the chain ring. One between the pedal arms and the chainring,
and one between motor and chainring. I would expect that the one that freewheels makes a clicking noise the
same as the freewheel in a rear wheel...

My GF is already on her second Bosch motor as the first one on her bike was replaced after about 2200 km.
It made a clicking noise once per pedal revolution, so if it's like that, bad news.

No I don't notice a clicking.

Can you hear the noise I'm talking about in the video ?

o00scorpion00o said:

No I don't notice a clicking.

Can you hear the noise I'm talking about in the video ?

Click to expand...

it sounds like a chain noise ? I never heard that on my GF's bike, but her motor is the right
way up so if it's a normal sound for the bottom of the drive..

Have you tried spinning the pedals by hand with the wheel in the air ? Do you notice any
abnormal resistance then ? And how about when you spin the pedals but the rearwheel is
spinning so fast it's freewheeling ?
And, how does it compare to pushing the bike backwards (in which case the motor inside
the drive unit will turn) ? Pushing my GF's bike back has some resistance and you can hear
the whirling noise from (RC style) motor inside the drive unit.

What you can try is take the chain off, then the pedals should spin totally free in the forward direction.

Here we go, this is what I should have done in the first place.

Definitely coming from the motor, the crank doesn't seem to free wheel anything like normal cranks ?

I doubt that noise is normal ?

[youtube]j6u5XLL79vs[/youtube]

hm, not different from
[youtube]VGn9XgxI4ko[/youtube]
[youtube]OPaNMylNnt0[/youtube]

this is what my GF's bike used to do (totally different sound, notice the click once per pedal rotation), motor was replaced:
[youtube]hFj-q0lI8bI[/youtube]

I think you're OK, enjoy your new bike !

Ah ok , maybe it's not so abnormal then ?

It does seem strange though ?

But I will go for a ride later. That has put my mind at ease!

After going for a short spin I think what I'm noticing is the rear gear hub, the ratios are unlike anything I've experienced.

So after adjusting the ratios it feels a lot better.

The tyres are also another thing, the Continental sport contacts made a major difference on the old bike and the tyres look a ,ot more grippy on the Haibike, so maybe I will change them to the continentals when they wear out.

Yes I think I've discovered the gearing is completely different with that rear 3 speed hub.

There is a very low gear, a middle and a very high and I had it in high thinking it was like the large chain ring on my old bike.

What is cool is that unlike a hub motor you can go up a very steep hill slower to save energy but the motor won't bog down because you can just change to a lower gear and you still got plenty of power.

I really like this system.

The tyres do seem to be a high grip type and so not a low rolling resistance like the brilliant Continental Sport Contacts.

I might tackle the 16-18% mountain slope that cooked the Magic Pie at the weekend !

This is the trip data of the short trip I took today. It was really steep and the same climb I burned the halls in the pie.

Total trip was 1.77 miles.



This is the view from the top.









This is a view of the road part way up the mountain, It's very hard to judge how steep it is. Id say some stretches of this road were 20%.

The Bosch did it but I did have to stop to rest 3 times but I think that was part because I had to pedal so fast as I was in the lowest gear at times. It does make you put in effort.

Speed you can see in the graph, it was around 7-8 mph, going up in the magic pie @3kw saw around 12-13 mph but the difference is the pie was burning in the car most of the 30 min trip home, it really was cooking hot. The Bosch was warm from the outside it wasn't hot but that is no indication of the motor inside but the thermal cut out didn't trip.

So I would say the Bosch could climb even steeper, as I only needed the lowest gear to get going but as my legs got tired I did find myself going back to a lower gear mainly because of the torque sensor I suppose.

I think it's a fantastic result considering the Bosch is 500 watts max compared to 3 kw for the Magic Pie for only 5-6 extra mph.

Man Ireland doesn't look half bad when it's sunny

My experience with no-motor cycling here in switzerland, there is an optimum leg-rpm, too fast or too slow will wear you out. So next time try one gear higher !

Yeah it's not a bad place when the sun shines, the heatwave has really been fantastic , you're talking 1-2 times in 10 years such temperatures. Last few summers were very dark and cool.

Yeah I think I may have had it in too low a gear, I think I would have had to stop for a rest either way.

Ok I've definitely concluded there is a big drag on the bike, I don't know if its the motor or them3 speed Sram hub but its too hard to pedal for long unassisted, it reminds me of direct drive drag.

I've found myself having to use the motor much more than I like, I guess the bike was designed thinking people that want an electric bike would be using the motor a lot anyway and wouldn't notice.

Update.

I installed the Continental sport contacts and I'm much happier now, it's amazing the difference switching to a lower rolling resistance tyre makes.

Those trekking tyres were zapping a lot of energy.

@o00scorpion00o: This is very odd. Do you recall having this drag when you rode the Bosch / Raleigh bike in Germany?

4REEE said:

@o00scorpion00o: This is very odd. Do you recall having this drag when you rode the Bosch / Raleigh bike in Germany?

Click to expand...

Nope but then again it's different when you are riding on unfamiliar terrain.

I will be in Germany again in 3 weeks and I'll get a spin on both my gf's parents bikes, a Raleigh and haibike , both last years models. I can't remember if the Raleigh had the Sram hub.

Those Trekking tyres are much harder to cycle on, it's a bit like when I went from the knobbly mountain bike tyres to the Continental Sport Contacts.

I have the tyres at the 110 psi that I was used to on the old bike but that's because I like maximum pedal efficiency, it's not so bad if you can find a half decent road.

It's a pity you can't pump car tyres to 110 psi !

I have the bike exactly 3 weeks today and have 301 miles on it already.

I absolutely love it and so do my knees.

I've been through torrential rain and it hasn't effected it in the slightest.

Since I adjusted the derailleur and 3 speed hub it has made the bike a whole lot quieter.

I'll be in Germany next week and I'll get a chance to compare her Dad's 2012 Haibike and her Mother's Raleigh, though comparing bike on unfamiliar terrain is difficult. I might even get to see the 2014 model bikes.

I do like the Sram 3 speed hub as you can change gear under load which is very comfortable especially going up a really steep hill where as using the Derailleur you have to ease off the pedals, well I think you do as I don't think it would be too good for the gears changing under full load ?

I could certainly see the attraction to the NuVinci hubs though they would probably be heavier than the Sram.

I would have preferred a 3 chain rings up front to save weight, weight does make a difference.

Anyway I'm very happy with the bike it's got all the power I need on the steepest of stuff not many would likely climb daily, heading for 20% grades does pose a challenge even for me, but turning off the motor on a 20% grade makes you realise how powerful it is for the hills though for those kind of hills it could probably do with an extra 20-40 nm of torque.

Now I could just imagine going up a 20% grade hill with a hub motor ! The Bosch will do it without getting hot, or so I can feel.

The Bosch climbs the hill that the mac did at 15-16 mph consuming around 500 watts, the mac did it at 30 mph with 2100 watts adn the magic pie @26-27 mph consuming 2100 watts, so just under a quarter the power for half the mph, though the bosch is limited by software it still has power going up a steep hill until the software cuts the power.