Direct Drive Genesis

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 13 2017 7:30am

I don't think any of them are the same. And there is so much manufacturing in China I doubt they are from the same factory...even if they were identical in looks.

I may be selling my old BHT motor that I didn't even put 25 miles on, since my LR setup is so perfectly insane and I need to recoup some paypal funds.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 15 2017 12:07pm

Wow came in a week flat with no other fee's package weighs in at 3.85KG so I figure the motor is 8.1lbs around there. I'm pretty sure you guys should snatch these up before they are gone. I will probably sell a few myself.

Denzel 3000w motor
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Last edited by skeetab5780 on Oct 02 2017 9:01am, edited 2 times in total.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 15 2017 12:50pm

Is the Cyclone really a BHT? I assume you are referring to the Cyclone 3000 watt model
There are literally half a dozen companies making these (at a minimum). And to the casual observer, they could not be distinguished from each other when sitting next to each other on a bench. If you pay two engineers to design a wheel, both will end up being fairly round, even without any contact with each others research.

If you pay up front for 100 units, you can get this type of motor wound to any Kv that is reasonably possible. You can get bearings that are ceramic, authentic Japanese NSK, or generic Chinese. Whatever you are willing to pay for. Fat phase wires with teflon insulation? No sweat, you just gotta pay the man...

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 10 2017 2:54pm

Made a quick and simple Charging station on wheels to simplify charging while at my garage. This will have to do until I can afford the HV statiator.

Im using an old Gen 1 XBOX PSU that put out plenty of power for this charger

Added a receptacle for convenient power, and a switch to kill PSU, this Xbox PSU shuts down after charging automatically!

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Last edited by skeetab5780 on Oct 02 2017 9:02am, edited 3 times in total.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 11 2017 7:53am

I completely let the bike come out from under me yesterday with a whiskey throttle trying to be cool and jump a section of roots in the trail...It happened so fast and since I still havnt programmed the controller it has a slight delay in it, So by the time I realized what I did I was already in superman stance. I landed left side straight on my knee and left elbow and then helmet faceplant...I seem to be ok but was pretty shocked at how quickly this thing kicked my ass when I underestimated its capabilities. I was on the ground light headed for a minute before I attempted to move my knee but I knew nothing was broken since I grabbed my phone an started filming the crime scene.

Broken the seat clear off bike backflipped and broke the battery mount tek screws, and also on the limp home noticed my rear tire got another pinch flat... clearly this rim is not wide enough for my needs of abuse and these motocross trails that are brutal on bicycle components.


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Last edited by skeetab5780 on Oct 02 2017 9:02am, edited 2 times in total.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 12 2017 9:55am

So I think I am going to rebuild my rear wheel with a 19" moto wheel and tire to improve durability, since there is not hub motor it will only add about 2.5-3 pounds to the bike so it wont be that bad overall. And I imagine my spokes aren't going to be the right size so I will probably increase to 12awg over to 14awg I have now.

Any thoughts? Also was planning on a 70/100 dirt bike knobby tire for rear? not sure if that is overkill or not
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Is this too aggressive, its mainly a dirt bike at this point

Testing the rear wheel setup with my new camera
Last edited by skeetab5780 on Oct 02 2017 9:41am, edited 1 time in total.

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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by nutnspecial » Apr 16 2017 1:30pm

I think you'll notice some 'lag' with the extra rotating mass (I'd figure 5lbs per wheel?), but it should be fine and you'll have to jump off a building to damage the wheel lol. I have gotten 2 pinches in >2 years. One was right away (nailed a curb improperly), and the other was yesterday coming down off an unfamiliar rocky construction site hill. There was a dip at the bottom that bottomed my weak little air shock and almost gave me an endo. It pinched one side just barely, right where the HD tubes start to thin out towards the inside. A patch worked though, except I didn't have them with me lol.

I might try moto tyres on another build, but either want more motor/power or to gear it a little lower/slower. It would be moreso for traction and the weight of a 100lb build. Look at what those crazy DH and FR bikers manage to do with their bikes (bike tires)! Without a heavy unsprung hub motor we shouldn't have too much excuse for pinches?

Btw nice crash! Running throttle direct thru controller and using the 3 speed switch really helps me. It's very difficult to start out at 100% setting on flat ground, so I run in #1 or #2 for everything but full speed wot.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 17 2017 10:04am

Ya I think I just got bad tubes, they are not downhill and were for like 2.0 max tire width. I decided to order two nicer downhill rated 24" tubes and see how it goes before I figure out if im going to rebuild the rear wheel.

I also want to get rid of my crank and adapt pegs of some sort I think, unless I make the pedals actually work they are sort of dangerous spinning around all crazy if I ever have to take my feet off of them.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 21 2017 10:16am

Ya so Im pretty sure I had really bad tubes, so hopefully this solves my rear flat issues for now. This downhill rated tube is more than twice the size of the little kenda 2.35 max tube I was running. And it fit inside the tire fairly easy.

size matters
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Back up and running(well charging)
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Last edited by skeetab5780 on Apr 21 2017 3:38pm, edited 2 times in total.

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John Bozi   1 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by John Bozi » Apr 21 2017 10:33am

Hey thanks for recording the fail

Makes me feel better about my million or so.

There something about that feeling when you are in the middle of nowhere alone and you come off the bike or something goes wrong and you reassess yourself life whatever... but I curse and say I wont do this or that again and limp home and do it again! lol

ride on

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 21 2017 2:05pm

So this is a long shot, but please let me know how you feel on this subject.
FOOT PEGS I decided to mount a set of Honda Trx250x foot pegs to the bike in hoped to find a better riding solution than pedals that swing in the breeze...

Not sure they are in the perfect position, but for now they are strong enough to take out and get a feel for them.
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 21 2017 2:08pm

So I simply removed my pedals and bolted the pegs to the bottom bracket spindle and then used a long 3/8" carriage bolt and bolted the rear of the pegs behind the frame pivot point. Its sorta neat since they move back and forth a bit.

Let me know if this is a good idea or bad, or if you have tried it


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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by nutnspecial » Apr 21 2017 5:43pm

Sweet and simple! Where'd ya get the pegs? I'm thinking of trying similar on a new heavy build.
A piece of rubber or urethane air hose would work good, and maybe adding a garden hose or similar over that would almost completely eliminate all movement.

That's good about the tubes, heavy ones are way better. Still run decent pressure though, and that slime stuff is awesome for the rest (just saved me from a new puncture yesterday).

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by dirkdiggler » Apr 22 2017 12:04am

I'm​ in the same boat trying to get pegs. That same Eastgem site had some in the works on their YouTube channel, but never saw them on their website.
Yours look good. I'd flip them around though. You want your weight and feet positioned further back. I've been riding with long bolts threaded in the bottom brackets. Full ghetto, but works better than hanging pedals on cranks. I found some cheap Walmart pedals that have two sizes of threads. One size fits an ISIS bottom bracket, so you can thread them right into the bracket. Too bad I've got square taper on the bike right now. I'll switch the bottom bracket out when I get a chance and see how that works with flat pedals. I've searched a ton for cheap moto pegs and there's a few that might work. I'd like a wider stance. That's the next option. The spring on the pegs seems to be a safer idea of the two.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 22 2017 6:55am

Thanks for the comments guys, I thought about turning them around myself but then they would bend forward with the springs instead of backward. I don't think this would effect anything really tho, id have to take them off and get a better look.

Ive never run slime in my tires, if this big ass tube get a pinch flat im sure that will be my next step...What PSI do you guys run? I run only 30psi is this not enough?

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 24 2017 12:28pm

Just ordered one of these newer style thumb throttles. Then I can hang on to more grip than with this half twist.
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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by nutnspecial » Apr 24 2017 12:59pm

I don't know if you saw my twist throttle, but it's a full twist that was easily cut down. There's only like an inch of twist and the rest is a lock-on grip. As far as pressure, yeah I totally get pinches with low pressure like that. I usually run 50psi in my tires which are 40-60psi rated I think. Slime is only really good for the rest of punctures- pinches are too high to the inside of the tube. If I wanted a better opinion that my own I'd check out a mtn bike forum to see what the downhillers use, but think it's on the higher side?


Hey where did you snatch the pegs from? Guessing an atv or bike?

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 24 2017 2:24pm

They are off a 1987 trx250x Honda quad

Thanks for PSI info I will increase to 45-50

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 26 2017 10:25am

So I decided to take off the pegs already and start doing a little maintenance to the motor bracket while I design a new peg system.
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I think I am going to have my brother make another custom bracket to get perfect peg location, and possible do some solid mounted pedals similar to the LMX bikes.
This corner of the metal bracket has to go!
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 26 2017 10:48am

Also one of my motor mount holes was off a tad and never had a bolt in it, I will take this time to open it up a tad with the dremel
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 26 2017 10:52am

Look at all the crud that has accumulated on this steel already! If I was smart id throw a lick of paint over this thing, but I'm far from a perfectionist(tho some would say otherwise)
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This permanent marker line tell it all! Some times I just like to get things done quick and easy
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Drilled a few holes to line my cut up easier
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Dremel is so convenient and easy
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Snapped corner of plate off with some pliers then sanded it a bit
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Then threw the whole thing back together
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Last edited by skeetab5780 on Oct 02 2017 9:05am, edited 2 times in total.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 27 2017 12:15pm

Got around to programming the Kelly controller for the first time... It was way easier than I expected. Even tho I'm fairly computer savvy, I should have done this a long time ago!

Took it for a quick ride and noticed that it didn't seem to want to wheelie or flip over as bad as before. Will have to test more, already got my pants caught in the chain on first attempt...it was nice
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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Apr 28 2017 7:35pm

Love this build. I think from one of the videos you posted back a while ago, it's not too loud either. Is all the noise just coming from the chain? If I were to do something similar but make it belt drive, would it be almost silent? Or is there quite a bit of motor whine?

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 29 2017 9:19am

This video will give an idea of how loud it is. Its quiet but under load its a bit loud mostly chain noise.


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DanGT86   10 kW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by DanGT86 » Apr 30 2017 9:19pm

Looks fun! I like how easy it lifts the wheel even with the longer wheelbase of that swingarm. What are your battery and phase current settings on the controller?

I'm pretty sure you've inspired me to get a kelly for my 80100 project. I got it spinning on the stand and have my doubts about how well the Lyen will be able to control this thing. Have to see how it does under load. A huge selling point for me was seeing how small that thing is for its power. I would love to be able to stash it under the shock like yours. The true current control seems like a better strategy then using the CA3 to essentially trick the speed based Lyen into acting like current control.

Did the kelly come with the USB to serial adapter included?

I'm looking at the sinewave version of the one you got. Slightly less current rating but 70,000 ERPM without paying for the upgrade.
http://kellycontroller.com/kls7212s24v- ... -1348.html

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