Direct Drive Genesis

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » May 16 2017 9:40am

Since my last WTB seat broke I've been temporarily using the stock Genesis seat and let me tell you it suck! I ordered a pretty cheap Cloud 9 seat that gets some decent reviews. Cannot wait for it to come in the mail so I can toss this other in the circle file

It came in!! Out with the old in with the new!
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I had to get a pair of water pump plier and bend the metal saddle bracket it was too wide to fit my standard MTB post clamp...Ebay defects are my favorite
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Gotta try the bike out now, sat on it to check real quick and its so much more comfortable
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Last edited by skeetab5780 on May 16 2017 3:59pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » May 16 2017 3:55pm

video of my struggle to find the best trails

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » May 23 2017 9:52am

Which controller should I buy? whats the best bang for my buck

http://kellycontroller.com/kls7230s24v- ... -1343.html
this one weighs a tad less has 10 less amps constant but 40 more boost amps this one is $30 less and sine wave

http://kellycontroller.com/kbs72221e130 ... -1316.html
this one weighs a tad more and has 10 more amps constant but less boost amps this one is $30 more and not sine wave

Thanks for any input, FYI this is not for this bike

EDIT: Come on none of you want to help me decide! Where are all the smarty pants?

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » May 31 2017 7:30am

Well I ended up going with the cheaper sine wave version. Looks like they have already sent me FedEx tracking! Hopefully this is enough juice...
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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by DanGT86 » May 31 2017 12:11pm

I would have tried to help you decide but I am also trying to do homework on a Kelly purchase right now so I have no experience with them. What bike are you using it on?

Did you have to do the hall sensor and phase wiring learn function when you set up your other Kelly?

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » May 31 2017 2:26pm

Working on a dirt bike build, donor was an Apollo 250cc 4 stroke. fairly heavy frame, took a lot of it out... Trying to power it with a BHT and 8kw peak

We will see if its enough, I have a feeling it wont be, but since the donor bike was only $100 I don't have much invested, controller was the most expensive part so far.

I did not have to program anything about the halls or motor poles it recognized it all. They also run both throttle types 0-5v is standard programmed

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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by nutnspecial » May 31 2017 2:56pm

I've been looking at my steel eastgem frame and thinking the same thing lol. I really want to use these shinko dirt tires and heavy susp I already have as well. I think the bht will do fine, but will be happiest with lower gearing like maybe 30-33mph which is fine with me.

I'm interested how you guys make out with the kellys and >7kw- they def sound worth considering, though if I stay with an xiechang, an 18fet running 80a and 24s is 7kw and typically under 200$.
Maybe someone has them for less that aren't programable?

Your current motor is the same that LR is selling, correct? You confirmed it's a bit lighter than bht and higher kV?
Do you have any more of the bht's to sell skeetab, or can you give me a line on one?

Maybe my reasoning is wrong, but it seems like feeding the middrive as many volts as possible is the best way to get the most power with the least heat? That means it needs to be low kV though, so the reduction doesn't get unmanageable.
Thanks, Jay

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » May 31 2017 3:34pm

This is what the bike will be geared for with 20s lithium voltage im assuming 200lb total weight I haven't weighed it yet and have not finished welding motor mount yet, rest is done

slow but hopefully alot of torque
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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » May 31 2017 3:42pm

nutspecial wrote:I've been looking at my steel eastgem frame and thinking the same thing lol. I really want to use these shinko dirt tires and heavy susp I already have as well. I think the bht will do fine, but will be happiest with lower gearing like maybe 30-33mph which is fine with me.

I'm interested how you guys make out with the kellys and >7kw- they def sound worth considering, though if I stay with an xiechang, an 18fet running 80a and 24s is 7kw and typically under 200$.
Maybe someone has them for less that aren't programable?

Your current motor is the same that LR is selling, correct? You confirmed it's a bit lighter than bht and higher kV?
Do you have any more of the bht's to sell skeetab, or can you give me a line on one?

Maybe my reasoning is wrong, but it seems like feeding the middrive as many volts as possible is the best way to get the most power with the least heat? That means it needs to be low kV though, so the reduction doesn't get unmanageable.
Thanks, Jay
I'm sort of leaning towards higher KV motors, Because you can use lower voltages and get the same result. I like the BHT but 35mph on 20s is just too slow IMO and I feel like if I gear it 4:1 it will strain the little motor to pull the 200lb dirt bike too much. (but also the bht is I think only 6 poles so maybe it has the torque to do it)

I still don't know anything I just like to wing it and build with what I have kicking around I am using a #41 60t rear sprocket and 11t front

I have no stock on BHT motors anymore, I hae alibaba trying to get me some spec sheets but their 7kw motors weigh 45 pounds...I almost shatt myself
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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » May 31 2017 3:47pm

As it sits I have $150 into this
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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by nutnspecial » Jun 01 2017 6:53am

Awesome! Wow, you just can't go wrong with a full rolling chassis for 150$. Bicycle brakes, OR a wheel, Or bars and seat are like 150$, EACH lol. Does she weigh about 150lbs before electric?


Thanks for the input, I really don't know either. I'm pretty sure you just want the best balance of volts and amps to get to target wattage, while maintaining a usable reduction. The slower kv motors definitely like alot of volts, but I'm not sure about the >60kv LR types. I'd think you'll be fine with 6-8kw and 40mph. On my bike I just notice the motor starts getting warm in the summer when I'm burning amps but going slow. Never measured the temp, but guessing I back off around 150-170F. It really depends on how you wanna ride- If you're not too hard on it with high amps and low speed, I think the bht would get you moving to 60mph no problem.
I'm planning on gearing down from my current ~40mph topspeed on a heavier build though. For a dualsport maybe not, but for offroad I don't wanna sacrifice the low end performance (and climbing usability) of 0-30mph by gearing higher.

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 01 2017 7:48am

It was actually a complete dirt bike for $100 I got lucky, this is a generic bike you can buy on Amazon for $1500 (best part is I have the engine on craigslist for $150) so when I sell it this will be a wash

And I spend $50 on renthal bars and grips and a #41 chain

Controller is ordered so that's another $235, motor I already owned but I have about $400 into it roughly

I need to buy a scale to weigh it, also need some metal stock to weld my motor mount...hopefully I can grab this stuff today if I have time!

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by nutnspecial » Jun 01 2017 12:45pm

Awesome! Alot of times, if you go to the metal supplier (who often also does at least some fabrication), you can ask a -worker- for some offfalls from the dumpster, for a little $. Worked for me the one time I tried, in fact they just gave 'em away. Also, some scrap yards will re-sell metal for pennies on the dollar. I got about 1000lbs of nice I beams, channel, and tube that way.

Ps, I just looked at that controller and it's nice! 300ph amps should be more than enough at 35mph gearing. I was running 200 and when I switched to 24s I turned it down to about 160 iirc- it was a little much. I can't see how many battery amps it supports though to compare with the other controllers. Guessing maybe up to 80a supported? Let us know if/when you find out.
In my understanding the battery amps are the power (combined with the battery voltage). Phase amps are how high of an amperage pulse the controller gives the motor FROM that initial wattage.

///btw, if the bht isn't enough, what do you think of this motor? http://eastgem.net/d7500.html Looks like it weighs close to 15 lbs, but it does have a faster wind. Would have to hit it with a 24fet (120-140a) to approach 10kw (controller side).

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 01 2017 2:58pm

Thanks for the tip that is a good idea, my brother is a welder but he lives like an hour from me. His work may have a pile of scrap that's perfect!

Should be about 120a constant 300a peak, I started a thread for this over in the non ebike section.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=88646
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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 01 2017 3:05pm

nutspecial wrote:Awesome! Alot of times, if you go to the metal supplier (who often also does at least some fabrication), you can ask a -worker- for some offfalls from the dumpster, for a little $. Worked for me the one time I tried, in fact they just gave 'em away. Also, some scrap yards will re-sell metal for pennies on the dollar. I got about 1000lbs of nice I beams, channel, and tube that way.

Ps, I just looked at that controller and it's nice! 300ph amps should be more than enough at 35mph gearing. I was running 200 and when I switched to 24s I turned it down to about 160 iirc- it was a little much. I can't see how many battery amps it supports though to compare with the other controllers. Guessing maybe up to 80a supported? Let us know if/when you find out.
In my understanding the battery amps are the power (combined with the battery voltage). Phase amps are how high of an amperage pulse the controller gives the motor FROM that initial wattage.

///btw, if the bht isn't enough, what do you think of this motor? http://eastgem.net/d7500.html Looks like it weighs close to 15 lbs, but it does have a faster wind. Would have to hit it with a 24fet (120-140a) to approach 10kw (controller side).
Hmmm I've never seen this motor before even though I own the d3000w model, they are tiny... This 7500w motor looks pretty nice! Its similar to the Golden Motor 3kw weight but rated at twice the torque and more rpm's!!!

I may have to buy this if the BHT is not enough!

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 10 2017 12:40pm

Nice day out but not one person riding. Was really surprised to not see any motos atleast

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by DanGT86 » Jun 11 2017 8:57am

I finally got around to weighing 1 swingarm's worth of parts. Its 4.75 lbs with no weld and no pinch bolts. It's safe to say they are 5lbs. max.

Also, I know I keep bringing this up and not doing anything with it but did you still want the shortened swing-arm we talked about probably over a year ago? :oops:

Doesn't look like you have the room to shorten it without the motor hitting the seat tube. I wont be offended at all if you don't want it. It would be easier for me to weld up the last one with no modifications and I'm sure it would sell. I just felt like I still owed you one before offering it up for sale. One of these days I can get around to welding it.

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 12 2017 7:38am

Thanks for the info on weight. I didn't think it was 8lbs!

I think I am all set with another swing. I am on to bigger and more expensive things!

On a site note I did order the 72v satiator charger from Justin! Cannot wait to simply hook up one wire and push a button!

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by DanGT86 » Jun 12 2017 9:14am

Just to be clear that is a no on the other swing arm?

Seems like you do have quite a few projects going. I don't know where you find the time to ride all of them.

Satiator looks like a nice product. My meanwells are quite the contraption and not very portable. The readout on the satiator looks quite useful for guys that like data. On one of my bikes I charge through the CA shunt so I can track energy going in and voltage in real time. On the other bike with the internal shunt I can't watch the data and I'm always curious whats happening in there.

Can you feel your swing-arm and suspension pull to one side when you are on the throttle? My genesis with LH chain drive kinda strafes under chain load. It was well used though so its probably bushing slop.

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 12 2017 10:47am

DanGT86 wrote:Just to be clear that is a no on the other swing arm?

Seems like you do have quite a few projects going. I don't know where you find the time to ride all of them.

Satiator looks like a nice product. My meanwells are quite the contraption and not very portable. The readout on the satiator looks quite useful for guys that like data. On one of my bikes I charge through the CA shunt so I can track energy going in and voltage in real time. On the other bike with the internal shunt I can't watch the data and I'm always curious whats happening in there.

Can you feel your swing-arm and suspension pull to one side when you are on the throttle? My genesis with LH chain drive kinda strafes under chain load. It was well used though so its probably bushing slop.
No on a second swing arm

And I have no issue or pulling with my LR Genesis I love this bike. My cheap shock makes a little squeeking noise that's about it :)

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by DanGT86 » Jun 12 2017 12:12pm

Cool.

I think there are some bronze bushings in my future to tighten it up. The pull isn't terrible but I can feel it. FYI I made the swing-arms pivots such that they would accept roller bearings but I havent tried it yet. The main pivot doesn't take roller bearings but the small seat-stay pivots should.

My genesis is running a 24" rear and a 26" front but the shock is over an inch too long so it almost evens the fork angle out. Its not as twitchy as it was with the 26" in the back.

I'm glad you like the bike so much. Looks like a nice simple and light setup for some hard trail use.

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 13 2017 9:38am

Im planning to put the half twist throttle back on, I think I am just going to cut it down a bit and use more handlebar grip

hopefully this will help my issues with holding onto the bike in rough terrain and also let me control it! I will have to reprogram the throttle ramp up rate again also.

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by nutnspecial » Jun 13 2017 10:07am

half twist throttle back on, I think I am just going to cut it down
+1 - thanks for letting us know how the thumb throttle worked. Idk why 4wheelers use one and dirt bikes dont?
Just fyi, I guess because your hands change position, mine is more sketch when standing. Actually wiped out the other week because I was riding fool hardy and not paying attention. I was standing and grabbed a little too much, and took a dive in the woods- found some brush with my face and a rock with my knee lol. I don't think my high BB and small frame helps for the best standing stance though 4 me tho.

I swear by my 3spd switch for my success in not dying, so far lol.
Although Kelly has a better throttle control type, do they also allow for a '3speed' switch or similar?
Can you run a more expensive pot throttle with them?

Dan do you have coverage of your bike somewhere?

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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 13 2017 10:43am

Just threw the half twist throttle back on after cutting it down, had to solder and heat shrink the wires again since I cut the cable last time too short...
added about 1.3" of more grip and cut about .7" off the twist throttle
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Hid the splice and heat shrink under here, im not too picky about looks as you can see
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had a bit of an issue trying to reprogram the controller. Didn't want to hook up the PC dedicated to programming the bike so I had to search the web for a windows XP serial port USB driver. Took an extra 10 minutes but I figured it out and set the setting back to 1 ramp rate for the half twist.

I don't recall seeing anything about a three speed switch in the controller manuals or the setup program...id have to go back up in the posts a few pages back to check tho.

Come to think of it when I busted my knee and did a superman I was standing up too! I think the stance on the LR Genesis Direct drive is about 3" to far forward. I have plans to make a peg conversion that will let me stance go back a tad for more control.
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Re: LR Direct Drive Genesis

Post by nutnspecial » Jun 13 2017 10:50am

id have to go back up in the posts a few pages back to check tho.
That's ok- I didn't see it on their site or in your posts. I'm still hopeful I'll like the Kelly better.
3" to far forward
Yeah you're right- Now the LMX design makes more sense to me. I'm screwed w/ the pedals, but that's awesome you can just mod your peg setup!

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