demo 8 astro 3220

hi,

thought i would show pictures of my Demo 8 bike that i have been converting to Electric. Let me know what you think i will post more info and specs soon. Still a bit to do, but you will get the idea. Also i have a few questions, one of if possible will need help with rear end, as i will be running the motor thru the crank and then to the rear wheel what would you recommend as a hub also the demo 8 is a thru bolt axle. i will try and use the gears but i know the derailleur wont hold up but i will give it a go. I dont mind running a single gear at the back wheel but i want something strong. i know i could run a chain straight to the back but i like the look of the motor driving the crank and then another chain to the rear wheel. i did think about two chain drive like the cycle monkey bike where i would have two cogs on the last shaft of my drive unit and one chain to the back wheel and the other connected to the crank and a single cog at the back, would just need to make a chain tension but shouldn't be two hard. Hope this makes sense.

any ideas would be much appreciated.

regards Dan

Wow, that is an absolutely monumental amount of power to run through the pedal side! This thing will be a wheelie monster.

Matt

Amazing! I think this is what a lot of people on this forum are striving for & you definitely pulled it off.
You could go with a quality down hill hub like,
Profile Racing :
http://www.profileracing.com/estore/browse.php?perPage=0&tag=profile-mtb
or even a
Hadley hub: 1-909-946-6780 -They don't have a website
Either one can be set up as a single speed if need be.
They aren't cheap but from the looks of that bike It deserves such.
-Very nice!

Hey, that's really a quality work....awesome!

Let me say that, although similar amounts of power shouldn't be delivered thru a derailleur....I will look forward and keen hoping to be wrong there!!! :wink:
Love the care and professional look of the details...can't wait to see more pics, the whole bike with batteries and enclosure, and mostly how will perform!!!!

There are 2 simple major facts that make hard to drive the power amount your motor would like to deliver thru the derailleur:

- The chain wouldn't work straight except for one gear
- The power imput at the crank-shaft level is yet at the final balance between rpm and torque that supposedly you would like to have at the wheel, (or even more torquey), that makes the speed of the derailleur's chain, seriously slower compared to a conventional Astro drive (separated drive), that's not cool since chain's power rates under higher torque and low rpm are lower; Also to consider that the faster gears on a standard cassette, are too small to resist, as standard ratcheting mechs....

A strong hub but mostly, I guess, a strong ratcheting mech....ChrisKing and DT use unconventional systems, Hadley and Profile (as suggested by Mike) are the among the best "standard ratchet" mechs (3-4 pawls).
AMong the more affordables, I had good feeling with WTB single duty hubs and Revolver hubs.
Note that profile's elite hubs have now an XD compatible driver, so that, virtually, you may also use Xo1 7speed DH cassettes, that should pair with your bike and build perfectly....you may try it even with the motor, you'll obtain a strong cog-set, an acceptable chainline for 3-4 gears and a superprecise derailleur mech, at the cost of an extra thin chain....

That thing looks like a beast! Nice! What motor are you using? How much power are you laying down?

thanks for the feedback much appreciated. thanks for the links stuntmanmike i will check these out, thanks panurge for the info. i dont mind running a single gear at the rear would just like to have only one chain line. if i can get a hub with a thread or flange on it i could make an adaptor to attach a cog to the rear wheel and just play around with different cog sizes and find a happy medium. i think if i have the motor driving the crank and a single chain to the rear it should be pretty strong as you will have tension pulling both ways. will just need to make a chain tension

this bike wont be something i will ride daily just on weekends for blast around the streets, i will run it with the derailleur and see how it will go but i know it wont last, once it destroy's it self i will go down the Path of running a single cog.

also thanks Matt for all your post as i have to admit alot of the stuff of will be running is Based on your Post's

the motor is a 4 turn astro 3220 and castle creations HV160 with 4 extra 1000uf Panasonic caps (dont know if this is to many) the attached Photo is where the batteries will be mounted i have based it on 8 x 8ah 6S lipo's given me 32ah at 44.4 volts, if room is tight i will only run 6 x 8ah i cant remember the exact ratios but it is a 18tooth belt running a 72 tooth pulley, second stage is 10 tooth driving a 44 tooth and 3 rd drive to crank is 16 tooth freewheel to 44 tooth crank cog but dont hold me to that will count later and confirm.

i will have a separate battery on board to run my led headlight (see attached photo copied the Audi e-bike) and both fans one for speed controller and one for motor. At the moment i am making the side panels to cover the Batteries i am making this out of Clear Makrolon Polycarbonate and i will cover the top half in Carbon fiber wrap to cover the batteries but leave bottom have clear to see drive line. i am using Polycarbonate as it will help with weight.

Mate this looks awesome. Can i suggest that you loosen the forks and drop them through the tripleclamps (to simulate compressed suspension) and just check the wheel doesnt hit the motor? I could be completely wrong, but it looks like it would hit and possibly cause a massive stack if it did it off a jump. Fingers crossed you already checked all your measurements and it just looks like a possibility from the angle of the photos.

Nice bike mate,
You could switch the chain between output cog and cranks to bmx half link as it fits the sprocket and would do away with the tensioner as you can remove 1 link at a time
Darren

Ok you have exactly my motor model. For your reference with a 19:1 total reduction and a 24" hookworm tire, I get 53kph (100kg) out of charge. that's a fact. a torquer setup should be totally unneeded most of the cases....
Let me say that nothing over 24:1 is needed with that motor on the lower side.....nor the everest climb...

A V3 cycle analyst is highly recommended if not needed, anyway, but especially for the first runs and mostly if you don't use a torque limiter or clutch (but seems you have one already mounted)

danos_01 said:

i did think about two chain drive like the cycle monkey bike where i would have two cogs on the last shaft of my drive unit and one chain to the back wheel and the other connected to the crank and a single cog at the back, would just need to make a chain tension but shouldn't be two hard. Hope this makes sense.

Click to expand...

that makes much more sense to me instead of a crankdrive....just throw away the trial crankset for a serious DH one and reverse the imput/output direction of that supposedly #219 chain, fabricate an adaptor for this end of the jackshaft that would hold up the output sprocket to the wheel, and a freewheel for the imput chain coming from crank, #219 or whatever will be....than you have to run a freewheel the other shaft-end where the motor inputs (or let the shaft itself freewheels from the other side if you understand me)...
There's a chance that with the derailleur tension and a long cage, you can sort out with a working and pretty unique setup aroud your BB. if not, than you need another double roller tensioner near the BB like Matt did for his last builds....

Your freehub semidestructive plan is exactly what we would like to see, first.....though

I've recorded that video just 1 hour ago.....inspired by your "blasts around the streets" [youtube]vhybq34bKu4[/youtube]

EDIT: sorry....now unlisted....
that's the Bike (now with every contributor's sticker) [youtube]Jp8Irm3R1Tg[/youtube]

Awesome bike !

however the video is private...

Impressive setup,this babys gonna fly as long as your drivetrain can handle it but we will see soon enough.

Very tight work mate very tight. I like the design work. Classy bike to start with too. As mentioned by our electro revheads the bike chain and cassette will get properly reamed in (not much) time, I'm guessing a couple of rides if you're up it. There's a big 'pro/anti gears for hi perf e bikes' debate raging and I'm pro gears. I did mine through a small mx gearbox which has some massives disadvantages-heavy,complex and expensive but will never ever break.
A 4 turn astro, especially wired in delta as is mine, is a very feisty motor and believe you me it will wheelstand happily almost whenever you want. I'm looking into a wheelbase extension. Be keen to see how you go. Good luck mate you're about to have some fun

nice video Panurge. What batteries are you using and what Amp hour do you have? and what run time do you get? also can anyone tell me what settings they have for the Castle HV160 controller and maybe what settings would best suit my setup?

also im not to good on electric motors, but how much Amp will a 3220 draw i mean the controller is rated to 160 amps and i know the motor can handle high Amps but if your cruising along will the motor draw much Amps? or only under hard acceleration. As if it does i guess i wont get a long run time, i know this is a Hard question but may be just a rough idea.

dypsomaniart said:

ate this looks awesome. Can i suggest that you loosen the forks and drop them through the tripleclamps (to simulate compressed suspension) and just check the wheel doesnt hit the motor? I could be completely wrong, but it looks like it would hit and possibly cause a massive stack if it did it off a jump. Fingers crossed you already checked all your measurements and it just looks like a possibility from the angle of the photos.

Click to expand...

i did check by compressing the forks as far as i could, should be Ok but will be close, i can tell you i wont be doing any big Jumps just street riding.


[/quote]that makes much more sense to me instead of a crankdrive....just throw away the trial crankset for a serious DH one and reverse the imput/output direction of that supposedly #219 chain, fabricate an adaptor for this end of the jackshaft that would hold up the output sprocket to the wheel, and a freewheel for the imput chain coming from crank, #219 or whatever will be....than you have to run a freewheel the other shaft-end where the motor inputs (or let the shaft itself freewheels from the other side if you understand me)...
There's a chance that with the derailleur tension and a long cage, you can sort out with a working and pretty unique setup aroud your BB. if not, than you need another double roller tensioner near the BB like Matt did for his last builds....

i understand about the freewheel on the other side, i think i will go done this Path once the Gears give way and i like the look of this design.

will update photos hopefully after this weekend with side Panels attached.

Hi
I Use a CA actually with amp mode. For normal rides (like this one) I use 100amp limit on the CA (5Kw) and 160 for hard rides (8Kw) but those are Batt Amps; Phase amps are a different thing.
Expect from 1 Km per Ah (climbing and wheeling at max performance continuously) to 4Km per Ah in a true economy mode (pedaling at 35Kph).
With a powerful bulk charger (and a cell monitor) and the right pack, you may easily charge 70% of your 10-16Ah pack in about 1/2 h, I think for street blasts could be enough, you can charge multiple times at day....But If your plans are to Blast around the streets for hours or make endurance runs, than U need an huge Pack....
I suggest to Start with that range of limit in mind (100-160Amp), than if you are unsatisfied, you can push it harder.....You have ESC and motor with active cooling so you'd be able to get something more than me from the 3220 4t (wye).

Can't wait to see the bike working, You'll have tons of fun.....Dunno your background riding hard things but anyway be careful the first rides!!!! :wink:

*subscribed*

Nice! Will follow this thread for sure.
Got some bigger pics for us?

This really art! You should be proud of your build.
Just not buying E-bike frame and ready to run... :lol:

Do you have any pictures of your front light on?

Thanks!

got one side panel made today, should have other side made by tomorrow. Not 100% sold on it, it is growing on me, but i like no side panels so i might run it naked and try and make the Batteries and wiring look good. I have found lipo batteries covered in Carbon fibre sheeting should match.

i will make the other panel anyway and have two options. i will get Batteries ordered in the next couple of weeks and wire it up and see how it goes.

also a photo with the headlight on.

hey guys, been a while since posted. Being Busy and NBA playoffs have been on (Mad NBA fan) Recieved Batteries this Week got 8amp hour 6S lipo will wire these in series to get my 48 volts @8amp hour, hope to have 8 of these in the long run.

wired in The Power meter today, cooling fans, headlight, Bec and throttle control, 200amp shunt and main power wires to speed controller. I didnt get the CA as i think this will do the same Job and this was easier to get in Australia also dont know how CA can limit amps as it doesnt connect to Speed controller? but could be wrong. Just waiting on Plugs to wire up batteries and connect to my Castle creations 200amp plugs.

also i have a question can i limit amps output to Motor thru the HV160? as in can i limit it to 80-100amps? making it a 3500-4500 watt system? just for the first thru runs to see how every thing goes? Panurge you may have answered this already but just to clarify.

also did a bit of research on Charging the first Photo is the charger i have already but is only 80watts can charge 6S but one battery will take 3-4 hours at less the 0.5c, so i have been looking at the sky rc 1000watt charger and power source nice bit of gear to, as i have worked out when i have 3 x 8ah (24ah) in parallel i will need 600watt to charge at 1c and if i do get 4 x 8ah (32ah) in parallel i will need 800watt at 1c and that is per side as i hope to have 2 x 22.2 volt 32ah battery packs in parallel then the two connected in series to get my 44 volt Pack. Any other charges that you know of let me know.

Also what are your guys thoughts on lipo storage as in what shelf life do these batteries have when not been used? or if keeped in storage mode are they fine? or is there life just dependent on how many charge and discharge cycles? As my batteries could be sitting idle for awhile why i try and sort this bike out.

hopefully next post will be with the Bike going, also i know you guys put links to rear hubs above but was hoping someone know's where to get a hub with thru axle 150mm with a thread one side, freewheel thread as i can get or make an adaptor so i can attach a single cog and get away from the derailleur. ( will check links above again) been a while since i have been on here.

keep you posted

You cannot limit the amps on the 160 controller in a true sense. you can set the limit (160 amps is the most sensitive setting). But, it just shuts the controller down, it does not truly limit the amperage.

I use a Meanwell 48 volt 1000 watt power supply. It will charge at 1,200 watts and runs the proper voltage.

The CA does limit amps and is programmable. It is a pain in the friggin neck to setup for RC use, though.

Matt

hey matt,

thanks for the feed back is there a link or post on hear on how to use the CA to limit amps for RC use? or is it on there website? I do have a slipper clutch, is this a better option to protect my system? as i notice you use these in your systems. i know these are properly rookie questions but this is all new to me.

regards Dan

I still use slipper clutches in most of my systems. The Motoped is the only bike that does not have it (for various reasons). I love slippers. They are an easy way to protect a high power system.

The CA was never intended to be used for RC systems. But, Justin made a way for it. As far as I know, there is no tutorial on their site regarding how to use it. I have a few customers who figured it out and walked me through it. It took me hours of wiring and half a day to program it and get it functioning correctly. That was for a customer's bike. I do not remember all of the ins and outs of it at this point. I got so frustrated with this that I just hired an electronics developer to build me a new style throttle for RC systems (as a product to add to my product line) that will have amp limiting and possibly active wheelie control. This will be a simple to use system. It is probably 6 months away, though, because we just started the project.

Matt

Thanks matt i will just setup the slipper clutch. The throttle you are building sounds awesome i will be interested in one when they are ready. Keep me posted!

Hello
Even if I have a CAV3, I actually still use the old CA-LRC (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=29846) with my 3220 bike. You may ask grin to wire it up and sell it to you like with the earlier beta versions of the v2 LRC, or, probably buy a v2, wire it up as shown in the thread mentioned, use a proper shunt, the CA pigtail plug and the extracaps on the ESC side, and flash the CA with the old CA-LRC firmware. Justin will provide the proper .hex file. I eventually have the firmware I'm actually using, within all the CA settings, if you need them.
This CA firmware has Amp and speed mode and RC advanced setup entries, and is able to send pulses to the RC esc, eliminating the need for an external throttle interface and allowing the current features; but since it is based on the V2, It is easier to be tuned and bug-free and stable as a V2CA. It hasn't pas-torque-temps and so on, but the Amp throttle works really fine with it..... the temp probe is the true missing feature compared to a V3 on an RC build.
Properly wired and tuned, it looks exactly like a CA-DP with a plug and play controller and an external speedo...

hey guys,

tried bike finally for the first time today went about 500mtr before it died, it just died suddenly but i did here a pop. i got back and checked the batteries and one had no voltage i connected to battery charger and it said connection break, i have contacted hobby king for warranty see how i go. But the other problem i had was i then connected only one battery to me system so 22 volts 6s and as soon as i connected the battery the castle controller started smoking and from the three wires going to the motor and then a small flame i quickly pulled the plug and it stopped any ideas? and do you think they are related? i was amazed how fast it did go for the 500mt and the pulling power it had.

One possibility;

If the battery blew out under load, it can damage the controller. It is not common, but it is a know issue. This is why controllers should not have a fuse between the battery and the controller.

Matt