Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by waynebergman » May 08 2016 10:06pm

Woodytx, just so you know an ebrake is just a way to instantly cut power when you touch the brake lever. It has nothing to do with an electronic brake or anything like that. Not sure if you understand what an ebrake is?

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Lurkin » May 09 2016 12:02am

I think what you are referring to is regenerative braking. This isn't possible with these units, they have gearing/freewheel between the actual motor and the drive train. It is only really possible with a direct drive.

As others have noted, for BBS units the 'ebrake' is not actually a brake it all. It is a switch that signals to cut power to the motor itself. So rather than 'making you stop' like a brake, its is 'stopping the motor from propelling you forward'. It is entirely possible to pedal the bike with human power when the 'ebrake' is switched on and not the physical, mechanical brake - because it does nothing to stop the bike, but everything to stop the motor from propelling you forward.

Some prefer not to use them, a good idea in the interim till you get used to it. If you are at an intersection and either pedal forward (if using PAS) or bump the throttle, you will be pushed forward into the traffic. However, if you were gripping the brake with a ebrake sensor, it would do nothing.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Woodytx » May 09 2016 6:05am

waynebergman wrote:Woodytx, just so you know an ebrake is just a way to instantly cut power when you touch the brake lever. It has nothing to do with an electronic brake or anything like that. Not sure if you understand what an ebrake is?
I do, preventing surges etc, but my non-fancy brakes easily handle those. I am a huge fan of e-bikes but have found that electronics around braking and shifting don't add to the experience, they just add complexity.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Gmullz » May 16 2016 8:10am

My BBSHD arrived on Thursday, and I spent some time over the weekend installing it. All of the components are installed and working, but I still have one remaining issue that I need to figure out.

I'm having a problem utilizing all of the 8 gears on my cassette. I have a 68mm bottom bracket shell, so when I first installed the motor I put spacers on the drive-side to centre the motor in the shell. This seemed fine until I finished the setup and realized the chain would pop off when attempting to use gears 1, 2 or 3. I decided to use the derailleur limit screw to try riding around using only gears 4-8, but even using the 4th gear was sketchy. The chain was reaching pretty far over to stay in line with the chainring on the BBSHD.

I figured I'd try removing the spacers, and this solved the problem for the most part. I still can't get in the 1st gear without the chain popping off, but 2-8 look pretty good.

Is this an advisable solution? There's two issues I see - first of all, the motor isn't centred in the shell, obviously. And to properly screw the motor into place on the non-drive side I need to use the spacers on that side. Has anyone had similar issues installing a BBSHD into a 68mm bottom bracket shell? If this solution is a reasonable one, should I give up on accessing the 1st gear? I've read I could place the front derailleur in a static position to prevent the chain from popping off. Is that a good idea? I feel like it would have to rub the derailleur pretty hard, as the chain pops off immediately when accessing the 1st gear.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by waynebergman » May 16 2016 10:17am

Hi Gmullz
I can't comment on the spacing for your motor in relation to the BB shell as my motor came installed on my frame and it was a great fit. I can comment however on the chain line issue in regards to the chain popping off.
It seems the more power you are using the more of a problem the chain line can be if it's not a good chainline. If you are up around 1300 watts or more you will need a decent chain line and also a decent chain.
It would be a help for some photos of your chain line and let us know if your chain is new or not. Mid drive take some tinkering for sure to get them dialed in. If you have the time see my last build thread https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=74706 perhaps some of the things I have tried may give you some ideas or help.
Also make sure your deraileur is in good condition with no slop in its workings, if you have a cheap ass deraileur and over 1000 watts of power plus a bad chain line this is a disaster in the making in my opinion. Take it a step at a time and see what you can improve.
Good luck........wayne

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Esting » May 16 2016 10:45am

Gmuliz

This should explain your problem and how to fix it.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/01/1 ... s-95-clam/

more important is the built in off set in the bling-ring to make your chain line up.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Gmullz » May 16 2016 11:49am

Esting wrote:Gmuliz

This should explain your problem and how to fix it.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/01/1 ... s-95-clam/

more important is the built in off set in the bling-ring to make your chain line up.
Hmm, I'm not sure if that article helps me much.

I should have mentioned that I have the 42T chainring from Luna, though I don't think that is really my problem. I'll take some pictures tonight!

Though maybe I could sum up my problem/question a bit better.

Basically, I have a 68mm bottom bracket shell, and the BBSHD is 73mm. If I use spacers to account for the smaller BB shell, then the chain line is way out of wack, so much so that I can't use gears 1-4. If I forego spacers on the drive-side, the chain line looks good for gears 2-8.

Foregoing the spacers on the drive-side means the BBSHD is 5mm off-centre, toward the non-drive side. Is this a big deal? If not, then I think my problem is solved, aside from not being able to access the first gear.

Pictures should help. I'll get them tonight!

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Esting » May 16 2016 12:15pm

so long as the left crank dos not hit the motor it good.
if you hade the Lekkie Bling Ring 46t you could have used 2 or 3mm spaces on the ring and that I think get you gear 1 , but its possible you may lose gear 8
you cannot use spaces on 42T chairing from Luna but looks like the 46T one from luna will.
http://lunacycle.com/parts/bafang-parts ... the-bbshd/

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by spinningmagnets » May 16 2016 1:36pm

When discussing "chainline", many readers might google some information on this, and they can quickly find that much of the published information assumes the reader already understands half of it.

"Chainline" is listed in millimeters (mm), and is the distance between the center of the chain when it is on the drive-sprocket/chainring...and and the center of the frame.

If you are using a common 7-speed freewheel on the rear wheel, an ideal chainline with a single drive-chainring would have a perfectly straight chain when it is on the 4th gear. That way, the chain would experience an even "deflection" of 3 gears to the low side, and 3 gears to the high side.

Image

"Q-factor" comes from the word "Quadricepts" which is the thigh muscle. Q-factor refers to how wide your knees are apart when pedaling. Some of the "ideal Q-factor" is related to how far apart your hip-joints are, in relation to how wide apart your pedals are. For each rider, there is apparently an ideal leg angle and knee-width for long-term efficiency and lowest possible fatigue.

I am no expert in this area, and I stand ready to accept more accurate info.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Dogboy1200 » May 16 2016 4:27pm

Which 42t chain ring from Luna? They offer 3 different ones. There's the eclipse, the Lekkie bling ring and a new inexpensive one they just started offering. I have all 3 and they all have different offsets. Sounds like you have the inexpensive one. It's listed as having the same offset as the stock ring but it really has less. This one doesn't work on my bike (can't use 1st gear). The other two have similar offsets to each other that are greater than the stock ring and on my bike they have too much but in my case they work perfect with the spacer Luna sells separately.
2007 Transition Preston FR BBS02 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=73635 Now HD https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=225
2006 KTM 250 XC-W
2005 crf50 stunt bike
Oset 12.5 (son's bike)
PW50 (son's bike)
Mongoose Kids Fat Bike BBS02 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=84133 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... e#p1232034

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Gmullz » May 17 2016 7:45am

Dogboy1200 wrote:Which 42t chain ring from Luna? They offer 3 different ones. There's the eclipse, the Lekkie bling ring and a new inexpensive one they just started offering. I have all 3 and they all have different offsets. Sounds like you have the inexpensive one. It's listed as having the same offset as the stock ring but it really has less. This one doesn't work on my bike (can't use 1st gear). The other two have similar offsets to each other that are greater than the stock ring and on my bike they have too much but in my case they work perfect with the spacer Luna sells separately.
Oh, it's the inexpensive one they offer as a free upgrade. I think you're right - sounds like to reach the first gear I would have to order one of the other chainrings.

I set the bike up last night with the spacers on the non-drive side. Seems fine to me, aside from being unable to access gear 1. And again, technically the motor is not centred in the shell, but I guess that doesn't matter. Here are the pictures of my drivetrain:

Image
Image
Image

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Esting » May 17 2016 11:17am

I am looking the pictures of your ring gear on Luna web site
and how is the ring but together on the spider if it bolted together maybe taking it apart and putting some spaces washes to off set the ring to left?
With the Luna Eclipse Chain Ring for the BBSHD 46T it bolted together
if you needed more off set to the left putting washes between the ring and spider
if needed more off set to the right putting washers between the spider and the BBS

Another possibility if to space your rear cassette to the right?
Last edited by Esting on May 17 2016 11:40am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Gmullz » May 17 2016 11:27am

Esting wrote:I am looking the pictures of your ring gear on Luna web site
and how is the ring but together on the spider if it bolted together maybe taking it apart and putting some spaces washes to off set the ring to left?
Never considered that. It may be possible. Here it is:

http://lunacycle.com/parts/bafang-parts ... -sprocket/

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Dogboy1200 » May 17 2016 11:33am

Esting wrote:I am looking the pictures of your ring gear on Luna web site
and how is the ring but together on the spider if it bolted together maybe taking it apart and putting some spaces washes to off set the ring to left?
Won't work. The chain ring would hit the gear cover then. Get the Lekkie Bling ring. The teeth on the Eclipse are very long and I had some problems when the chain got muddy it would try to stay engaged with the chain ring and ended up jambed between the chain ring and swing arm.
2007 Transition Preston FR BBS02 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=73635 Now HD https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=225
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Oset 12.5 (son's bike)
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Mongoose Kids Fat Bike BBS02 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=84133 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... e#p1232034

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by waynebergman » May 17 2016 12:19pm

Dogboy1200 wrote:
Esting wrote:I am looking the pictures of your ring gear on Luna web site
and how is the ring but together on the spider if it bolted together maybe taking it apart and putting some spaces washes to off set the ring to left?
Won't work. The chain ring would hit the gear cover then. Get the Lekkie Bling ring. The teeth on the Eclipse are very long and I had some problems when the chain got muddy it would try to stay engaged with the chain ring and ended up jambed between the chain ring and swing arm.
Hey Dogboy is there a chance you had the skinny part of the chain mounted over the thicker teeth instead of over the thinner teeth. I have found the eclipse ring to work flawless, it is awesome. You may have other chain issues like tension or something else to blame but not the ring. Just my opinion......wayne

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by WoodlandHills » May 17 2016 1:43pm

I had the exact same issue with the Eclipse: chain suck. But the Lekkie worked fine. AFAIK it is impossible to index a N/W chainwheel incorrectly although I am sure that it has been done somewhere!

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Dogboy1200 » May 17 2016 2:47pm

waynebergman wrote:
Dogboy1200 wrote:
Esting wrote:I am looking the pictures of your ring gear on Luna web site
and how is the ring but together on the spider if it bolted together maybe taking it apart and putting some spaces washes to off set the ring to left?
Won't work. The chain ring would hit the gear cover then. Get the Lekkie Bling ring. The teeth on the Eclipse are very long and I had some problems when the chain got muddy it would try to stay engaged with the chain ring and ended up jambed between the chain ring and swing arm.
Hey Dogboy is there a chance you had the skinny part of the chain mounted over the thicker teeth instead of over the thinner teeth. I have found the eclipse ring to work flawless, it is awesome. You may have other chain issues like tension or something else to blame but not the ring. Just my opinion......wayne
No I was careful to get the chain right. Later I actually ground a little off every tooth to make their length the same as regular chain rings and then it worked fine.
2007 Transition Preston FR BBS02 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=73635 Now HD https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=225
2006 KTM 250 XC-W
2005 crf50 stunt bike
Oset 12.5 (son's bike)
PW50 (son's bike)
Mongoose Kids Fat Bike BBS02 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=84133 https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... e#p1232034

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by JayCee » May 18 2016 8:38am

Gmullz wrote:Basically, I have a 68mm bottom bracket shell, and the BBSHD is 73mm. If I use spacers to account for the smaller BB shell, then the chain line is way out of wack, so much so that I can't use gears 1-4. If I forego spacers on the drive-side, the chain line looks good for gears 2-8.

Foregoing the spacers on the drive-side means the BBSHD is 5mm off-centre, toward the non-drive side. Is this a big deal? If not, then I think my problem is solved, aside from not being able to access the first gear.
Your thinking is backwards. The 73mm kit is perfectly centered in the frame only on a 68mm bottom bracket (oddly enough) when the drive side is snug against the bottom bracket. Measure your crank arm to rear stay spacing on both sides and you'll see.

With the spacer under the drive side, your kit is offset to that side (and higher gears) a full centimeter. To properly center the kit, you have to put the 5mm spacer on the non-drive side, directly under the motor mounting plate. If you have front chain ring clearance in this position, it is likely the most ideal chain line as well.

I just did an installation on a 68mm bracket, but only had a fraction of a mm clearance between my Luna Eclipse chain ring and rear stays with the spacer under the mounting plate, so I opted to use one 2.5mm spacer on each side to gain chain ring clearance, and live with the 5mm of crank/frame offset. My chain line is almost ideal in this position as well.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Gmullz » May 18 2016 11:59am

JayCee wrote:
Gmullz wrote:Basically, I have a 68mm bottom bracket shell, and the BBSHD is 73mm. If I use spacers to account for the smaller BB shell, then the chain line is way out of wack, so much so that I can't use gears 1-4. If I forego spacers on the drive-side, the chain line looks good for gears 2-8.

Foregoing the spacers on the drive-side means the BBSHD is 5mm off-centre, toward the non-drive side. Is this a big deal? If not, then I think my problem is solved, aside from not being able to access the first gear.
Your thinking is backwards. The 73mm kit is perfectly centered in the frame only on a 68mm bottom bracket (oddly enough) when the drive side is snug against the bottom bracket. Measure your crank arm to rear stay spacing on both sides and you'll see.

With the spacer under the drive side, your kit is offset to that side (and higher gears) a full centimeter. To properly center the kit, you have to put the 5mm spacer on the non-drive side, directly under the motor mounting plate. If you have front chain ring clearance in this position, it is likely the most ideal chain line as well.

I just did an installation on a 68mm bracket, but only had a fraction of a mm clearance between my Luna Eclipse chain ring and rear stays with the spacer under the mounting plate, so I opted to use one 2.5mm spacer on each side to gain chain ring clearance, and live with the 5mm of crank/frame offset. My chain line is almost ideal in this position as well.
Well then! I had no idea, as I never actually measured it. That's great, thanks!

I will need another chainring to reach first gear, but that's not a huge deal.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by brickelltandem » May 18 2016 7:13pm

recently ordered a BBSHD 1000w drive. What arrived reads BBS-HD 750W on the nameplate!
How do I tell whether this is the 750w older drive or the newer 1000w drive. Are there specific dimensional or weight differences I can measure?
thank you.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by EMPowered » May 18 2016 8:57pm

The chain ring in the photo on pg 15 from Gmullz is a new ring offered by Bafang. Luna calls it an "aluminum Luna chainring". Unfortunately, it is offset outward 10mm. Hence the free giveaway. Its poo. We ordered some from Bafang and its ok for bikes with long drive chains like tandems etc...or for IGH, but NOT for a standard bike with a cassette. You would have a better chain line with a steel stock 46T ring, or for sure the Lekkie Bling Ring HD. The Lekkie ring has proven itself build after build and is a far better solution than the Luna Eclipse ring. The Luna Eclipse ring has longer teeth which increase the diameter and circumference and is dished too deeply requiring spacers to compensate. 2 main issues with Eclipse ring, #1 too much dish, #2 too much circumference. Lekkie is just better, it fits more bikes with less problems. Only saying this to help folks spend money right the first time. Full disclaimer... I gladly sell Lekkie rings : ) so yea I am biased, because they work, and they work very well.

See below image for comparison, the Luna is too deep, the Lekkie is just right
luna eclipse vs Lekkie HD.jpg
luna eclipse vs Lekkie HD.jpg (59.98 KiB) Viewed 4312 times
Last edited by EMPowered on May 20 2016 12:02am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by spinningmagnets » May 19 2016 12:28am

brickelltandem, the 750W engraving is to help users who need to restrict the controller amps to meet a street-legal power level in the US. Many buyers will use the BBSHD off-road, and at 52V X 30A the input power will be 1560W. Your max amps can be restricted to 48V X 15A, or 52V X 14A (depending on battery voltage of course) to get a true 750W.

I haven't learned how to program the controller yet, and I just received the controller programming cable in the mail. I asked for my BBSHD to be unrestricted from the vendor, and it still arrived with the 750W engraving.

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Lurkin » May 19 2016 5:19am

Have you confirmed this with the vendor? or are you assuming?

The BBS02 Gen 2 units look the same from what I can work out....

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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by tomjasz » May 19 2016 10:31am

Lurkin wrote:Have you confirmed this with the vendor? or are you assuming?

The BBS02 Gen 2 units look the same from what I can work out....
??
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Re: Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Lurkin » May 20 2016 4:59am

as in - are you actually sure they are exactly the same with the exception of the motor controller and have opened one up to confirm so, or are are we assuming they are the same? This is salient as they are advertised quite separately on Bafang's website (as if they are completely different products) and there has been a high degree of confusion of recent with dealers going totally uninformed of the actual changes Bafang is making when going to Gen 2 units as you are aware.......

I meant no offense, as always, I am on the lookout for nuggets for the wiki in this time of flux....

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