new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Chalo » Jun 18 2021 12:15pm

Umm, okay. Careful you don't get pinched putting the rotor back in.

What was your reason for the conformal coating? I've gone into a lot of those motors without ever having seen much corrosion or signs of water infiltration.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Jun 18 2021 6:00pm

Chalo wrote:
Jun 18 2021 12:15pm
Umm, okay. Careful you don't get pinched putting the rotor back in.

What was your reason for the conformal coating? I've gone into a lot of those motors without ever having seen much corrosion or signs of water infiltration.
Mainly cooling

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Brandon122603 » Jul 10 2021 10:36pm

I usually build gas bikes, this is my first ebike build, boy did i have allot to learn. Any and all help would be greatly apreciated. I would first off like to ask Skaiwerd a question as it turns out I'm using the same fatbike for my build, well kind of. My first question is how is the frame and wheels holding up. When i recieved mine i thought the frame and wheels, or more specifically the spokes were too weak for this motor. Not that I have any prior experience to go off of, just assuming this to be about 5 times more powerful than my 2hp 2 strokes. I'm looking for 10guage spokes to switch out but if yours are fine I may not need to. All i really used from that bike is the wheels, brakes, fork because i have nto yet found anohter within budget, handlebars. I used the stealth bomber frame from ebay for $275. I got the 6kw Triple chainwheel kit square tape 100mm, 80A Bluetooth programable. I have it installed fairly well i think, I dont yet have a battery to test it yet. I was hoping to get a recomendation for where to either buy a battery or the materials to make my own. Im at close to $1300 so far and am limited to about $400 for the battery. Probably should have bought that first. I have a short white wire that i have no idea what it goes to. Not sure where the phase line meter is supposed to go. I'm waiting on the pedal assist senosr and a 3 speed switch. I was going to use a 3 speed rear sprocket with shimano derailuer but after reading previous posts decided against it. I will most likely switch out the crank set that came with the bike for on of my gasbike chainwheels with the same 44,44, 32 because of the 4.2mm steel plates used. I'm guessing i would be best using a 44 tooth sprocket in the back. It would help to mention this build is for a desert bike with many hills to climb, some with not much room for aceleration.

All suggestions, comments, advice welcome!!!
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Skaiwerd   1 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Jul 11 2021 10:26am

Brandon122603
I’m still dealing with bent axels in the back. To recap the original and a chrome alloy replacement 3/8” have been bent at 60amp 75volts first rides out. The bike was still rideable with a chain retighten, you need the adjusters and go single speed, the chain needs to be very tight. You won’t need pedal gears. I have to reweld the 10mm axel I made out of grade 10.9 bolts, bent at the weld, I ground too much of the weld off and I could have welded with more penetration, more of a bevel edge this time. Still perfecting the loose ball bearing to sealed cartridge bearings conversion. One failure seen in picture.
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Jul 11 2021 12:10pm

The batteries have gone up roughly $150 each ouch! I’m glad I bought when I did last fall for the 11/11 sale. It wasn’t much of a savings over the regular prices but now the price is just crazy. $450 more to power up your dream ride ( getting three for 72v) is going to hurt, shop wisely or wait it out is my recommendation. I got them at $175/ea previously. This is more of a reason to consider the cheaper route on the frame and wheels in my opinion. Things my stay overpriced, who knows. Adding in my guesstimate of $1200+ to a build for a name brand steel frame/decent wheels is a tough bullet to bite. Still not accounting for a fork yet either. I’ve been looking at 45north wrathchild fat tires w studs at $235 each, this is a not a budget activity to get into for sure.
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Brandon122603 » Jul 11 2021 2:32pm

I'm new and still learning all the specifics, but would this work? I know they're cheap knock off crap at best. But would two of them make a useable 72v 20ah battery. I'm not worried about them lasting long, I'll lget the warranty coverage plan so when they fail i can get them replaced or my money back. just want to know if theyd work and will it be safe connected in series? Also would i need to charge them sperately, do i find a bms foe both?
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pwd   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by pwd » Jul 11 2021 2:41pm

Brandon122603 wrote:
Jul 11 2021 2:32pm
I'm new and still learning all the specifics, but would this work? I know they're cheap knock off crap at best. But would two of them make a useable 72v 20ah battery. I'm not worried about them lasting long, I'll lget the warranty coverage plan so when they fail i can get them replaced or my money back. just want to know if theyd work and will it be safe connected in series? Also would i need to charge them sperately, do i find a bms foe both?
They are likely crap, which you know. Even the ad says 500W; you'd have to know the cell's max discharge capability to determine if there are usable over 500W.
2WD Commuter/Street Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=98286:
Rocky Mountain Element - upgrades in progress
Magic Pie 4 front w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 70A phase + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 230A phase
Samsung 40T3 20S6P

Offroad Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=102195:
2017 Scott Big Jon
Cyclone "3kw" 13T motor to 36T chain ring then 32T chain ring to 11T-46T Cassette @ 100A phase
Molicel P42A 21S3P

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Jul 11 2021 2:42pm

It seems too good to be true. I’d be cautious. But yes using the two batteries in series where the voltage increases with each additional identical battery. Capacity and amps remain the same as single battery. Make a custom plug with two female xt60s. You disconnect them to charge them separately and forget about bms. Balancing is done while charging them.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Aug 21 2021 7:16am

The motor's phase wire plug which hooks to the controller phase wires on the Cyclone 6K motor cannot take the controller's max output of 80 amp without overheating and melting the solder on the wires. The compact plug may have less than a millimeter of plastic separating the three soldered wires which is not enough cooling space during high amperage demands. On the last melt the CycleAnalyst read max 79.48 amps going to the 80 amp controller. The plug likely got a little less amps.
IMG_0746.JPG
Two wires

The solder on 2 phase wires melted at 80 amps
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This is the third separation on 2 different 6K motors. I had been repairing these plugs by cleaning the solder with a Dremel Tool/ milling shaft used to clean the holes. For the fix of this last separation I cut out the worthless plug and swaged the wires using copper sleeves -- no more melting solder.

Note: the wire colors change across the plug. Blue is not connected to blue etc.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Aug 21 2021 9:48am

That connector should be rated to 60A max if I recall correctly. Thicker phase wires should help as well, but then soldering the connector on will be PITA. I used the same type of connector (before I upgraded to nucular) with powervelocity controller at 65/130A but with upgraded phase wires. Had to "prune" wire strands off to thinner the stripped end of wires in order to be able to push it into those soldering cavities on connector.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Manbeer » Aug 21 2021 8:03pm

So now that it doesn't seem Luna is carrying these, what is the vendor of choice? I see the 3kw kits and a few odds and ends on sick bike parts, but not terribly much and with the cheesier mounting hardware. It looks like GNG 3kw kits are basically the same as these Cyclones but with higher quality fittings? Whats the story there?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Aug 22 2021 8:02am

I’ve always eliminated the plugs once I’ve got the cyclone up and running. It helps reduce the wire rats nest and the problems you’re encountering.
It’s true that Luna sometimes sells the cyclone, basic 40amp and also the 60amp version. Sick bike parts usually just sells the 40amp version and no isis cranks. Ordering from cyclone of Taiwan is always and option. We’re supposed to maybe get a shipping discount if we ask and mention we’re ES members, unverified though. Coaxial type kits only available from cyclone direct.
I think that the GNG /CYC is the natural, upgraded replacement for the cyclone. It has a torque sensing in the bottom bracket that seems to work well going from my ES post reads. The secondary reduction is more compact and uses 219 cart chain. The brackets and chain tensioner seem well engineered. The obvious downside is 2-3 times the cost of the cyclone. But I feel it’s worthy of being installed on a higher end bike than the cyclone. If a build cost inches close to the sur-Ron price it makes you wonder the reasoning behind a conversion. My thinking it’s still a bike which allows you the bike privileges and acceptance you’re not going to get with a edirt bike like the air-ron. The cyc has a USA distributor,
https://www.electrifybike.com/collections/cyc-motors

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by pwd » Aug 22 2021 11:02am

For the record; I ordered ISIS cranks/bottom bracket from Sick Bike Parts with no issues (2019) with my Cyclone 3kw kit (nice water resistance connection for the motor halls + phase). I paid a little extra but not full price for those upgraded parts. I'd also highly recommend the Heavy Duty freewheel (replaceable bearing) if you will be riding in wet/muddy conditions.
2WD Commuter/Street Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=98286:
Rocky Mountain Element - upgrades in progress
Magic Pie 4 front w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 70A phase + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 230A phase
Samsung 40T3 20S6P

Offroad Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=102195:
2017 Scott Big Jon
Cyclone "3kw" 13T motor to 36T chain ring then 32T chain ring to 11T-46T Cassette @ 100A phase
Molicel P42A 21S3P

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by pwd » Sep 30 2021 9:55am

Does anyone have alternate (less expensive) source for a 14T motor freewheel like this: https://sickbikeparts.com/electric-motor-freewheel-14t/ ?

My plan was to use a freewheel adapter to go from the 20mm motor shaft to a 1.375 " x 24 thread but it seems 14T freewheels only come in 1.29 " x 24 thread.
2WD Commuter/Street Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=98286:
Rocky Mountain Element - upgrades in progress
Magic Pie 4 front w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 70A phase + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 230A phase
Samsung 40T3 20S6P

Offroad Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=102195:
2017 Scott Big Jon
Cyclone "3kw" 13T motor to 36T chain ring then 32T chain ring to 11T-46T Cassette @ 100A phase
Molicel P42A 21S3P

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Chalo » Sep 30 2021 10:51am

pwd wrote:
Sep 30 2021 9:55am
Does anyone have alternate (less expensive) source for a 14T motor freewheel like this: https://sickbikeparts.com/electric-motor-freewheel-14t/ ?

My plan was to use a freewheel adapter to go from the 20mm motor shaft to a 1.375 " x 24 thread but it seems 14T freewheels only come in 1.29 " x 24 thread.
$25 is a pretty good price for a freewheel plus a specialty shaft adapter.

13, 14, and 15 tooth freewheels have M30x1.0 threads.

Locally, we use those for Cyclone motors on pedicabs. The Odyssey 13t kind holds up a lot better than the generic 14t units we get with the motors. But all of them self-disassemble if there's any tension on the drive chain when the freewheel is overrunning. A half-assed fix is to place a little tack weld to fix the bearing race in position.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by pwd » Sep 30 2021 12:16pm

Chalo wrote:
Sep 30 2021 10:51am
pwd wrote:
Sep 30 2021 9:55am
Does anyone have alternate (less expensive) source for a 14T motor freewheel like this: https://sickbikeparts.com/electric-motor-freewheel-14t/ ?

My plan was to use a freewheel adapter to go from the 20mm motor shaft to a 1.375 " x 24 thread but it seems 14T freewheels only come in 1.29 " x 24 thread.
$25 is a pretty good price for a freewheel plus a specialty shaft adapter.

13, 14, and 15 tooth freewheels have M30x1.0 threads.

Locally, we use those for Cyclone motors on pedicabs. The Odyssey 13t kind holds up a lot better than the generic 14t units we get with the motors. But all of them self-disassemble if there's any tension on the drive chain when the freewheel is overrunning. A half-assed fix is to place a little tack weld to fix the bearing race in position.
Thank you for your input. So are you using the Odyssey 13T on the motor shaft with a freewheel shaft adapter? If so; what adapter are you using?
2WD Commuter/Street Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=98286:
Rocky Mountain Element - upgrades in progress
Magic Pie 4 front w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 70A phase + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 230A phase
Samsung 40T3 20S6P

Offroad Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=102195:
2017 Scott Big Jon
Cyclone "3kw" 13T motor to 36T chain ring then 32T chain ring to 11T-46T Cassette @ 100A phase
Molicel P42A 21S3P

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Chalo » Sep 30 2021 6:38pm

pwd wrote:
Sep 30 2021 12:16pm
So are you using the Odyssey 13T on the motor shaft with a freewheel shaft adapter? If so; what adapter are you using?
We mostly use the shaft adapters that came with the motors. I made a special tool that we can clamp in the vise to allow removal of the original freewheel. I've also made a few on the lathe when we were in a pinch.

Staton Inc. of Oklahoma offers one that you can buy.

https://www.staton-inc.com/store/index. ... ct&id=2292
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by pwd » Oct 01 2021 6:53am

Excellent, thank you again Chalo! I was on that site before but only saw the adapters for 1.375 " thread.
2WD Commuter/Street Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=98286:
Rocky Mountain Element - upgrades in progress
Magic Pie 4 front w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 70A phase + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ Infineon 4 Clone @ 230A phase
Samsung 40T3 20S6P

Offroad Build viewtopic.php?f=6&t=102195:
2017 Scott Big Jon
Cyclone "3kw" 13T motor to 36T chain ring then 32T chain ring to 11T-46T Cassette @ 100A phase
Molicel P42A 21S3P

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Manbeer » Oct 13 2021 8:13pm

Pardon my laziness in not sorting through this entire thread as its getting a bit long. Has anyone ran these at greater than 72v? Looking at the GNG version and was wondering if i could run say, a sabvoton 96120 @ 96v with it? im on a smaller wheel and want to pick up a bit of top end, would probably keep the battery amps down to around 40, but this way im not always down in the 11t chewing through gears. Plus, i will already have batteries for this but the 72v i would normally run would require another purchase. In this case, the setup would be 26s9p NCR18650GA.
Thanks in advance

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by john61ct » Oct 13 2021 9:11pm

My guess is no, since Lightning Rod did not do it with his modding for Big Block

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Manbeer » Oct 14 2021 7:53am

john61ct wrote:
Oct 13 2021 9:11pm
My guess is no, since Lightning Rod did not do it with his modding for Big Block
OK, figured if I keep the amps lower I may have better luck as I'm not really trying to go much above the 3000w mark But if the motors designs to operate between 48 and 72 it might be a little bit too much rpm for it And I can run into other issues rather than just the thermal aspect. I guess if I try, the worst case is I burn up the motor and replace the bare motor with something else Or I could just run different batteries...But in the greater scheme of things with these, Rather use the batteries i have and make the motor work if i can

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by john61ct » Oct 14 2021 8:07am

Well ultimately, your throttle control determines the voltage

if you're willing to risk burning the motor, add motor voltage & temp sensors to watch and

just take it slow?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Manbeer » Oct 14 2021 9:41am

Yeah and I'm still kind of groggy because kids kept waking me up so I must be out of it anyway. I just though about it. I'm not going for a super top speed build and the motor really wouldn't be spinning any faster than most guys doing 45+ on a 26er As I'm just trying to do 40 max for short bursts on a 20x4

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by john61ct » Oct 14 2021 10:06am

Then don't mess around for no reason.

Rule of thumb should be only go up to the voltage you need for your desired top speed.

Cheaper controllers, safer for circuits and humans, better efficiencies when average speeds are way below peak speeds needed.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Oct 16 2021 7:25am

Experimental based knowledge TRUMPS any intuition based cross talk of what the Cyclone 3K can run for high voltage.

The following is what I know from having done such:

1. The controller sold with a purchase of the Cyclone 3K from SickBikeParts, Luna and Cyclone will not allow more than about 87 volts. I have spit a 6 cell LiPO to get two 3s batteries. Using one of these 3s packs with 3 6s LiPO batts I had a max of 21x 4.2 = 88.2 volts which is bit too much for the controller. But there are easy ways in the field or at home to get the 21 s pack working. Charging the batts to 4.15 volts yields a max of 87.15 which will work. Or run the 3 6s packs until their total voltage drops 88.2 - 87.15 = 1.05 volts leaving the 3 6s pack total at 18 x 4.2 - depletion = 75.6 - 1.05 = 74.55volts. The motor has no probem with more voltage up to 87v.

2. If you purchase the Cyclone 4K controller you can run about 115 volts at 60 mps? through it to the Cyclone 3K. No probem except overheating on long duration bouts or deep snow milling. Again voltage as high as 115v no problem.

3. I ran a Sabvotan controller at 90 amp and 116 volts to power a Cyclone 3K fat tire bike. No probem until I tried deep snow milling. I burned up both the motor and the controller in that 2 or 3 minute joy ride.

Basically it is high amps leading to overheating that will kill the controller/motor setup. With forced air cooling you can run more amps longer than simply external air flow cooling. And yes I have tried air cooling and the results were reported in this thread.

So Manbeer please try what you want. This thread is more about what might work than about what we "ought" not try.

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