Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Simonvtr » Nov 25 2015 9:09am

I really love your cargo bike it is a work of art.
When I was saw the part where you had issues with the cable steering I was thinking maybe you can use electric servo steering up front.
Like the kind the use in robotics or even if you do a search on google for powerwheels servo steering.
I made one for my daughter when she was to young and weak to turn the wheel.

What made you choose the leafmotor over some of the other motors like the mxus 6t?

Do you have a link to your trike bicycle build?
I am very interested in building one.

Thank you for sharing.
Simon

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Nov 25 2015 9:23am

Simonvtr wrote:I really love your cargo bike it is a work of art.
When I was saw the part where you had issues with the cable steering I was thinking maybe you can use electric servo steering up front.
Like the kind the use in robotics or even if you do a search on google for powerwheels servo steering.
I made one for my daughter when she was to young and weak to turn the wheel.

What made you choose the leafmotor over some of the other motors like the mxus 6t?

Do you have a link to your trike bicycle build?
I am very interested in building one.

Thank you for sharing.
Simon
The choice fell on the leafmotor mostly due to the power rating and many good references in the leamotor thread.
The early tests showed that huge power was unnecessary. If the leaf was sthe best choice is debatable.
Maybe a mxus would have been better due to higher torque capabilities. The background to the swap was efficiency. I dont know how the leaf vs the mxus stands in that regard.
The unsprung weight had some impact when I settled for the leaf but later on I realized the difference between the leaf and mxus was smaller than I first thought.

Unfortunately I have no thread or good documentation about the trike, but I will happily answer questions.

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by macribs » Nov 26 2015 9:43am

Your trike is a leaning trike, yes? With front suspension IIRC?
Could you snap a few pics and close ups of the trike?

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by eSurfer » Feb 20 2016 6:11pm

Wheazel wrote:Some soldering and wiring, getting close to powering up the adaptto and revolt to see if I can get em to like each other.

Image
Holy cow, that's a lot of cells!

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Mar 17 2016 10:10am

Yes alot of cells, and the dual nickelstrip strip shaved huge time off the weldingwork compared to cutting single strips for both parallel and series connections.
The only downside was that I had to stretch the nickelrows slightly to fit the holders, around 7-8mm for the 26p row if i recall somewhat right.
Solved this by cutting overlength strips, clamp fastening one end with a m16bolt and large washers and pulling the other end with the vice on the weldingtable.
This amount of cells is generally unpractical and heavy unless there are certain circumstances like with this cargobike.

The bike is now out of the winterstorage and man am I happy to ride it again!
Ive been going on the trike the entire winter, so this ride feels like a Maybach in comparison.
Much of it comes down to ridingposition, but the experience is also unfair on the trike due to the crappy surfaces it has to travel.
Now the roads are revealing asphalt again and temps are rising.

I have a few mods planned for the cargobike this year, and the trike will be retiered and hopefully replaced with a similar winterquad. I am expecting a buildthread for that late summer/early autumn.

The changes I will try on the cargobike are related to the wire steering. I will try larger endwheels to see how much that improves the overall steeringfeel.
Personally I am happy with it and close to 3000km riding gets you used to it i guess, but people that test it says that it is slightly odd at first.
Some of it comes down to the far back ridingposition and the long wheelbase, but also the slight flex in the system plays a role.
With larger endwheels any unwanted movements in the frame/supports/wire have lower impact.
I am shooting for doubling the effective torquearm from the turningaxle.
The idea is to try to 3dprint the endwheels out of nylon.

The worst part is that this mod will need a new front cowl, and possibly changing the first wireguiderollers under the cowl.

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Apr 03 2016 9:57am

Did make a short video of riding the bike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_BXpPV ... e=youtu.be

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by haulincolin » Apr 03 2016 2:08pm

Just saw this thread for the first time. Very nice build!

For the folks interested in another example of a cargo bike with cable steering, check out the Small Haul built by Frances Cycles in California. I've never ridden one, but I hear it handles quite nice.

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Apr 27 2016 4:47pm

Need to make some maintenance on the bike pretty soon.
The spokes in the rear wheel are getting looser. Its now to the point that the rear wheel sometimes makes a clicking noise every turn from movement in the spokes.
WIll have to remove the rear tyre and tighten and realign the rim.
Hopefully the only downside is that I didnt build in motor wire connectors and therefor need to have the wheel on the bike unless I want to split the cables.
I think I can put a magnet foot micrometer on the flat plate side of the swingarm.

Should I be happy with just retightening the spokes throughly and realigning the rim, or does removing the nipples and putting loctite in the threads have merit?
I havent experienced spokes coming loose like this before. Could it be too thick spokes and too low tension making it more prone to get loose?

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by amberwolf » Apr 27 2016 5:36pm

Wheazel wrote:I think I can put a magnet foot micrometer on the flat plate side of the swingarm.
I just use a ziptie on each side, cut end pointed across the rim, so I can see where the rim is in relation to it and make sure it ends up true. Centering just make sure both zipties are cut to same length in relation to the swingarm.

I havent experienced spokes coming loose like this before. Could it be too thick spokes and too low tension making it more prone to get loose?
This is the only cause I have ever had for this, other than bent rims from impacts, on any wheels I built or trued/tensioned myself.

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Apr 28 2016 4:21am

amberwolf wrote: This is the only cause I have ever had for this, other than bent rims from impacts, on any wheels I built or trued/tensioned myself.
Thank you Amberwolf, I should have laced it myself in the first place. And I should probably order some thinner spokes for it aswell :)

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by amberwolf » Apr 28 2016 3:46pm

Sapim 13/14 butted from Grin is what I am using on CrazyBike2 and SB Cruiser's 20" rear hubmotor wheels, along with wide doublewall rims from Ypedalt that are what was used on one fo the early Zero mc's. I dont' knwo who made htem or what model they are, though I expect any good rim would work.

All the stuff I had before them that failed was etiehr OEM hubmotor rims/spokes, usually 12g with crappy rims, or crappy walbike bmx stuff from goodwill/etc.

The sole exception to that was using the same spokes but laced radial one side and 1x on the other, but with the 1x spokes bent just before the nipple to keep their nipple/trhead junktion from having so much stress on it. Those crossec spokes were what broke, though i forget now exatly how and how many. They just could't be tensioned right, so they would flex.

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Apr 28 2016 5:09pm

I did tension the spokes today and realigned the rim slightly. Also discovered the rim had a dent from the pothole I hit last year that gave me a flat.
Nothing that affects the riding tho. Now the wheel is ok for a long time probably, but next time I will prepare with new spokes and onother rim.
The current rim is a decent doublewalled aluminum downhill rim, but I would prefer to have a new completely round one the next time around.

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by minde28383 » Apr 28 2016 5:26pm

Why not double wall but completely round one? And what axactly mean 'round' rim?
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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by macribs » Apr 28 2016 5:56pm

minde28383 wrote:Why not double wall but completely round one? And what axactly mean 'round' rim?
I think he referred to the fact that the rim was dented, and spokes came loose. Which made wheel untrue [sideways movements] and not perfect round [rim is not equal length from center/hub to the rim hole where the spoke nipple attaches] so that will make truing the wheel harder. Because wheel was off set in two directions. I don't think he is saying not to use double walled rims, just that he would prefer to have a new and more true rim to begin with, rather then working with a used one that is dented.

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by minde28383 » Apr 28 2016 6:16pm

Oh I see, thanks for clearifying. Initially I thouht that there is some type of rim 'round' about which I was not aware.
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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Apr 29 2016 3:31am

macribs wrote:
minde28383 wrote:Why not double wall but completely round one? And what axactly mean 'round' rim?
I think he referred to the fact that the rim was dented, and spokes came loose. Which made wheel untrue [sideways movements] and not perfect round [rim is not equal length from center/hub to the rim hole where the spoke nipple attaches] so that will make truing the wheel harder. Because wheel was off set in two directions. I don't think he is saying not to use double walled rims, just that he would prefer to have a new and more true rim to begin with, rather then working with a used one that is dented.

Correct :)
Sorry if I was cryptic. The rim is now aligned as well as I could under the circustances. It has a very clear dent that makes a small portion almost 1mm "lower" than the rest.
But this does not affect the tyres shape, so riding is no different compared to a new rim.
Overall the ride became smoother after the wheel work, so I think that the wobble gradually had creeped up on me so I couldnt really notice it.

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » May 27 2016 5:24am

Maybe two weeks ago, I decided to mount the PAS sensor I had removed back last year when I realized the adaptto brake signal didnt have prio over the PAS.
That was fixed in later firmwares, so I decided it was time to mount the PAS and upgrade firmware. The reflash went well, but since then I have had stange problems with the controller hesitating at higher throttle input.

Have had a bunch of ideas on what the problem could be, and it has been frustrating to suddenly have a much less functional bike.
Howerver the break came yesterday when I probably found the entirety of the problem. It lies within the new adaptto firmware + my magura throttle.
At higher throttle values, the controller sometimes loses the thottlesignal briefly. It could not be seen when calibrating throttle limits, but could be seen when doing a twist calibration.

The values start from 0 and then go up as the throttle is turned. At anything around or above 3000, the signal flickered to 0.
This is most likely the problem with the hesitations I have had at higher throttle inputs. Apperently, the newer firmwares needs a resistor to cause a small current draw over the throttle, moreso than the older firmwares.
Because I did not install any resistor when I built the bike, and it worked perfectly with the magura 5k pot throttle up until the firmware upgrade.

As soon as I have a resistor in place, things will likely be back to normal.
Bike is up to 4400kms now, the rear wheel has been working well after retightening of the spokes. No clicketyclick sounds with wheel rotation.

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Jun 10 2016 6:40pm

I am building a simple unsuspended multipurpose trailer for the cargobike.
The wheels (20" 48spoke) are salvaged from my upright tilttrike. The wheels sit on 20mm axle steel welded into a 25x3mm pipe as "rear axle".
The cargoarea will be made of pressure treated planks, and measures 2m x 0,6m.
Total width is around 0,75m, which is pretty common among commercial pull trailers.

Now and then I go and buy steel or aluminum piping. Unless I bring the big cartrailer I cant get the uncut 6m lengths home.
Getting the trailer involves some driving back and forth, so most often I ask them to cut them in 3, and I just take the material in my car.
Have occatianally taken some 2m material on the side of the cargobike aswell, but it involves padding and alot of strapping.

With this biketrailer I will be able to fetch pipes that are only cut once, to 3m.
Ontop of that, it will be easy to move bulky items shorter distances.

I will not be transporting very heavy loads on the trailer, as it has no brakesystem.
Its almost always a question about the stuff being too big, rather than too heavy.
The trailer will probably not be used super often, but will be good to have when the occation arises.
I plan to make the pulling mechanism foldable backwards, so that I can put the trailer standing against a wall in the bicycle storage where I live.

What do you people think about general riding efficiency between the leaf 1500 and a mxus 3000 v3?
I have one on order and might throw it on the cargobike, but not unless I really need the torque for pulling the trailer.
Might be asking alot from the leaf, but so far it never gets any warm. Typical rides end with a motortemp between 40-50C.
If I go alittle faster or battle the wind, it might end up around 60-70C.



Image
Last edited by Wheazel on Jun 14 2016 8:06am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Mundo » Jun 10 2016 10:10pm

I added small skate wheels to the back of my trailer, it has made it much easier to move around and stand-up.
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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Jun 12 2016 3:51am

Thank you for that advice, I think I will try something similar.
I do have some inline wheels laying around. Will probably have to add supports like the ones you have on the rear to make it superhandy.
Either that or make the wheels foldable/lockable so I could lean the trailer towards a wall without it wanting to roll away.

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Jun 20 2016 1:51pm

Today was a milestone in terms of distance travelled! 5000km of riding.

Image

Also a pic from last week when i fetched the pressure treated wood for the trailer. with the trailer :)
Since then I have fetched aluminum piping aswell.

I am not 100% happy with how the biketrailer handles. Sure it is very direction stable, but the attachmentpoint moves backwards and forwards when the rear wheel works its suspension.
I would say the angle from the rear swing pivot point to the trailer connection is maybe 40 degrees from the horizontal.
You can feel the struggle in the whole structure when the bike forces the trailer to make fast acceleration/decellerations when going over bumps. On flat roads its very smooth.
I was debating where to attach the trailer for a long time, and considered the saddle bar but went with this anyway to keep it more simple,
and avoid having to make a big arch of the trailerarm to counteract wheel movement and trailer to bike angle.
It is not bad enough to affect the usability much, but I have to drive with more sense and planning, and not just bumrush speedbumps etc.
Maybe ill further modify this build for the better, but its not the highest priority as the basic function now exist.

Image

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wolfeman » Jun 24 2016 12:32pm

Wheazel, this is one of the coolest things I've seen on ES. Your trailer is awesome, wish I knew how to weld already. I'm really looking forward to having something like that for doing hardware store runs for lumber, concrete, etc. Thanks for such a cool post thread.
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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by amberwolf » Jun 24 2016 12:37pm

Welding is easy; just takes a bit of practice. My welds look like crap but they don't break. :) Even just using the cheap harborfreight wire welders.

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by tahustvedt » Jun 25 2016 8:24am

The bike looks super comfy and smooth running in the video

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Re: Cargobike project. Very long john from chromo tubing

Post by Wheazel » Jul 14 2016 3:22pm

tahustvedt wrote:The bike looks super comfy and smooth running in the video
It sure is! I was checking old photos and realized that around this time last year was when I started rolling the frame.
The 30th of july was the first cargohaul. Soon to celebrate 1year with this bike and probably will have passed 5500kms by then.
My partner is away for 3weeks with our car, and I am doing just fine with the bike driving to work every day.
Can do one full workweek with no reacharging unless I go on many extra errands.

Got inspired by Tahustvedt's solar idea, as it would be possible to have a larger cargobox with a panel on the lid.
I am guessing the energy would add up from a whole week of being outside in various weather conditions.

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