Luna / LR Big Block build

Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
51
Location
VA, USA
Hey guys,

I'm a complete noob to the E-bike world so please be patient with me. I've read and reread the wiki as well as any thread that seemed relevant to my plans for this build. You guys are an extremely knowledgeable and helpful group so I'm looking forward to doing this build with some guidance from you. I have decent mechanical skills but I'm not an expert.

I'm a very dedicated archery hunter and I live in PA in the states. I'm doing this build so that I have a way to quietly travel between my truck and my treestands in the mountains where I hunt. I typically hunt 1.5-2 miles from my truck but will do 3 miles at times. Elevation gains during the ride are as little as 300' for the shorter trips to 2000' for the 3 mile ride. I weigh about 215 lbs and will be carrying a pack/bow that will add another 20 lbs. At times I will have a treestand with me to add another 15 lbs. I have a two-wheel cart that I will be towing behind me that will be empty on the way in and hopefully carrying a deer out on my return trip. The majority of my riding will consist of me and my pack/bow, I'll only be making return trips (mostly downhill) with a loaded cart and this will only happen about 4 times per year (limited by the number of deer I can harvest). I will be traveling on well-groomed logging roads so there won't be any hard-core off-roading in the plans. I need a bike that can do low-speed and towing well, I'm not looking to set land speed records. I need slow, controllable speed with good towing capabilities.

I've decided on the Luna bike for my platform and I'll be adding one of Mike's LR big block kits specially designed for the Luna. I'm having trouble deciding on direction in four areas:
1. Batteries: I'm torn between the Samsung 25R pack that Eric at ElectricBike sells and Lipo. I'm pretty nervous with Lipo given my inexperience and it's
reputation.
2. Rear Hub: I'm leaning towards a single speed freewheel as it seems to be the best option, probably a 22T. I don't want to spend the $$$ on a Rohloff and
there doesn't seem to be any other IGH's that will take the abuse that I'll be dishing out. I like the gearing options a derailleur would
afford, but I'm clueless as to what I need to meet the power of the big block. Again, I'm more concerned with low speed control.
3. Chain: I don't know what would be suitable for my power range/ rear hub options
4. Throttle: What is the best option out there for low speed control?

I'll be documenting this build here on the mid-drive forum in the coming weeks. Right now I'm working on lining up all of the details and parts.

thanks in advance for your advice,
jeremy
 
I am using the small block at 72V (Samsung-25R) and the power is ridiculous! I don't tow anything, I just boot around and commute - peak is limited at 5kW and averages about 1.5-2kW cruising. I would imagine you will have tons of power to pull that trailer (I used to pull my boy around with my gng bike and had no problems what-so-ever...the LR should be far superior)

Are you looking for any speed at all?
For your intended use, I would recommend a single speed with fat BMX chain and nice big torque sprocket at the rear wheel. If you gear it to max 20mph, you should have a ton of torque with a single speed...I don't know how fast you want to travel in the woods but over 20mph and you're scaring your prey for sure. There are also less failure points this way since there's no derailleur or cassette. If you absolutely need gears, the n360 is apparently a great choice (anecdotal).

My favorite single speed chain is the shadow conspiracy interlock. Super beef - zero problems in 2 years and I tried both widths (my experience).

As for throttle....I can't help you there yet. I am still trying to find optimal settings for low speed control - I am switching from a full grip to a thumb throttle now to see how it feels.

My only concern with your intentions would be the actual removal of the deer from the woods. A deer is several hundred pounds heavier than my boy...add in some swampy wet conditions and my fear would be traction from just a single drive wheel. I guess it would be completely dependent on the conditions.
 
r3volved,
I'm not looking for speed. 20mph top speed would be about all I would want. There are some open stretches on the logging roads where I could speed up a bit but I don't want to go fast. Also, I won't be doing any hunting from the bike, just traveling to and from my stands.

Can you recommend a single speed hub? I was looking at the white industries but they are at the top end of the spectrum as far as price. Eric at Electric Bike had recommended the n360 as well, but I'm nervous about breakage.

Deanwvu,
I have a two-wheeled cart that will attach to the Luna frame. It will handle a deer easily. The average deer I shoot will go about 150 lbs field dressed. I had my wife and daughter on the cart several times and pulled them around with my Specialized Hardrock. I'm satisfied with the attachment point and the weight that the cart can handle (my wife is 115 lbs and daughter is about 40 lbs).

thanks,
jeremy
 
The LR Kit and a 20T+ rear sprocket should do you nicely.

An alternative would have been a nice and slow DD Hub Motor like the MXUS 3000W 6T winding. at 6Kv, and in a 28" Tire, a 48V battery would get you right around 21 MPH on the flat.
 
Ya sounds like you've found the sweet spot configuration for your needs.

I don't have a freewheel recommendation....I use a freehub with sprockets and spacers (held up perfect for 2years on GNG - holding fine after several months at 5kW peak LR).
I use these sprockets: http://www.fouriers-bike.com/prduct_page.php?class=15&sn=120&psn=79
They have a nice fat mount and can be mounted side-by-side (16-23t options) and bolted together to make a fat strong multi-speed "cassette" replacement.
 
I stumbled across this last night (Spline cutting in hardened freewheels.):
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37640&p=548136&
 
Any advice on throttles? I'm leaning towards a 3 position but I'm not sure. I've heard good and bad about the Maguras so I'm a bit uneasy since the good/bad feedback is about equal.

Jeremy
 
I wanted to update on where I am with this build.

-I have the Luna and associated parts ordered from Lunacycle.com. I decided to go with the 52v 20ah 26f battery pack. I am not looking for big speed or 50 mile rides so it should do nicely for me. I also picked up a CA3 from him and the BB7 brake set as well. I decided to start with the KMC Chain X8.93 Extra Long that he sells.

-I just heard from Mike at LR and he's getting some hardened 4140 chrome moly jackshafts made for the big block kit. I'll gladly wait in line for those!!! I can't wait to get my hands on it.

-I ordered an 18FET from Lyen along with a 3 speed switch and thumb throttle.

-I ordered Vee Rubber Mission VRB321 for this bike. I need a tire with some off-road bite to it.

Here are the areas I'm leaning towards for the rest of the parts:
1. N360 rear hub- I'm not looking to pump crazy power through this thing...yet. I'm thinking it will hold up just fine for my needs as long as I drive with care.
2. I'm thinking of still going with a 22T rear to give me the low speed control and towing power I'm looking for. Plus it will be more durable with more tooth engagement.
3. I may be looking at upgrading chains to the previously mentioned Shadow Conspiracy or similar. Again, durability is the goal.
4. Pedals...I have no idea where to start.
5. My deer cart: I'm still working on it (pictures to follow Deanwvu!) I'm upgrading the tires to off-road, making a platform for it, and painting it to match the bike.
6. The current plan is to paint the bike and cart a matching camo pattern. However, I do have a buddy with a hydro-dipping business that I may be able to talk into dipping my bike and trailer.

I have a local bike shop handy that I'll be using to do the rear wheel build as well as help with general setup of the bike if I get stuck.

That's all for now, I'll update as the build moves ahead.

jeremy
 
hey, just a note...if you'll be going with a 'bmx' chain for strength, make sure you order two chains!!
They are generally sized to a BMX chainstay (74 links or so...max I found was 112 links) and you won't have enough links with only one actual chain.
 
r3volved said:
hey, just a note...if you'll be going with a 'bmx' chain for strength, make sure you order two chains!!
They are generally sized to a BMX chainstay (74 links or so...max I found was 112 links) and you won't have enough links with only one actual chain.

I pretty much figured if the chain from Eric doesn't last, I'll have to get two chains to make one that fits. I'll run the 8 speed chain to start but I'll probably upgrade pretty quickly.

jeremy
 
Watching your build. I have a Luna in the corner of the garage that has LR Big Block written on it but i have quite a bit of projects to get out the door first. My goals are very similar. Low speed climbing mule that can pull a trailer.

Build it and I will follow! :)
 
The tires came on Saturday and the controller with throttle and three speed switch arrived today. I got a notice of shipment from Eric so my Luna frame and misc parts are on the way.

Today I ordered the NuVinci 360 and 22t cog and they should be here in about a week.

The excitement is building as the parts roll in!!!

Jeremy
 
The much anticipated Luna kit arrived today! I took my time unpacking everything and checking all the pieces out. It was very well packed and survived shipping unscathed. This kit is awesome! I took a couple of hours and got most of the frame together. Still a good bit of work to do! I'll take it over to the local bike shop when my NuVinci arrives next week. I'm anxious to get the wheels on it!

jeremy
 

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Any update on your build?

My n171 IGH just shipped. I still need to get spokes ordered after that so I can get the wheel laced.
I ordered Luna Cycle's 60v battery that should be here soon so that just leaves the LR motor/Lyen controller kit from Mike... And a lot of assembly....
 
Sorry for not posting updates, I was out on vacation for a couple weeks fishing in WY and then got sick for a week when I got back.



Anyway, here is the NuVinci laced up with the 22T cog. The only 'issue' I've run into with the entire build is that the rear brake caliper mount is 1/4" off. I took 20 min yesterday and made a spacer out of some 1/4" plate steel that I had lying around. I'll get it finished soon and get more photos.

NuVinci 1.jpg

View attachment 1

I'm going to attempt to make some guards for the chain and pulleys on the LR by using this stuff:
http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/product_info.php?cPath=41_54_136_653_688&products_id=5854

I have the build just about wrapped up and ready for the Big Block! I'm still debating on whether or not to have it hydro-dipped or just paint it camo myself. I'd like it to look as professional as possible...but $200 for hydro-dipping isn't cheap. I may just unbolt the battery box, fenders, and racks and have those done and leave the frame black. We'll see...

jeremy
 
WHell, in the bright side, you didn't get sick BEFORE vacation! ;)


Thanks for the photos. Did you just use spokes from the LUNA kit?

It will be interesting to see how the N360 holds up. Much easier to find those.

What is durability like on the hydro dip? Battery box makes sense but curious to see if the racks would take the abuse without scraping off with chaffing of cargo.
 
My builder at the local bike shop laced up the wheel for me. I got all of the spokes from him...13 gauge I believe.

I'm hoping the NV will be fine since I'm not going to be riding this thing like a dirt bike, time will tell.

Hydro-dipping is very durable, my guy uses 3 coats of auto clear on top of it. I usually have him do a matte finish when he dips fishing rods for me. Matte will be what I use on this bike.

jeremy
 
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