Classification of drive types
- Thread starter Miles
- Start date
voicecoils
1 MW
Perhaps...:
(in order of photos)
CD chainring drive
SD series drive
ID independent drive
2SD two stage series drive
Substitute 'drive' for 'driven' in describing how the bike is powered as opposed to what type of drive it has. Each term relates the powered drive to the human input.
(in order of photos)
CD chainring drive
SD series drive
ID independent drive
2SD two stage series drive
Substitute 'drive' for 'driven' in describing how the bike is powered as opposed to what type of drive it has. Each term relates the powered drive to the human input.
I agree "Chainring drive" for 1. (It reserves "BB axle drive" for LH drives)
Series drive, we're already using for type 4. so maybe something different for type 2. ? "Direct to chain drive" "DCD" ?
If we're already using "Series" for 4. maybe "Parallel" for type 3. ?
Just throwing stuff out, so that we see all the possibilities....
Series drive, we're already using for type 4. so maybe something different for type 2. ? "Direct to chain drive" "DCD" ?
If we're already using "Series" for 4. maybe "Parallel" for type 3. ?
Just throwing stuff out, so that we see all the possibilities....
recumpence
1 GW
Really glad you started this thread, Miles.
I tried sifting through this when I build my recumbent.
I like parallel drive for #3.
Safe, yours is a variation of #2.
Matt
I tried sifting through this when I build my recumbent.
I like parallel drive for #3.
Safe, yours is a variation of #2.
Matt
TPA
10 kW
Inline drive for #2
And I agree Safe's is a #2......drive I mean.....JK Safe
And I agree Safe's is a #2......drive I mean.....JK Safe
safe
1 GW
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2006
- Messages
- 5,681
Poetic or Scientific?
Should we approach the classification problem based on a scientific mindest (which would entail making logical repeating categories) or from a poetic/artistic standpoint that attempts to make a mental image or analogy for each type?
We ought to choose...
The Scientific approach might end up sounding so boring that no one will learn the system and it will go to waste.
The Poetic/Artistic approach will more likely "stick" as a good name can hold a more persistent memory.
...also, what is the history on this? Might we also search for pre-existing terms to see if they deserve to be maintained?
P.S: I'm like Bono, I don't want to be classified as a #2:
Should we approach the classification problem based on a scientific mindest (which would entail making logical repeating categories) or from a poetic/artistic standpoint that attempts to make a mental image or analogy for each type?
We ought to choose...
The Scientific approach might end up sounding so boring that no one will learn the system and it will go to waste. The Poetic/Artistic approach will more likely "stick" as a good name can hold a more persistent memory....also, what is the history on this? Might we also search for pre-existing terms to see if they deserve to be maintained?
P.S: I'm like Bono, I don't want to be classified as a #2:
safe said:
It's a provisional numbering system and carries no significance beyond the order I drew the schematics in.
After we've worked out the nomenclature, I'll put them all in a horizontal line..... damn that doesn't satisfy, either..... in a circle 
recumpence
1 GW
Miles said:safe said:
in a circle
Figure 8?
Matt
Tiberius
10 kW
Miles said:To avoid further confusion... perhaps we could decide what we are going to call these common drive types?
How about...
Category
etailseg.....
1: Series: Motor-chain-crank-chain
2: Single Chain: Crank-motor-wheel
3: Parallel: Motor-chain, crank-chain
4: Series: Crank-chain-motor-chain
Substitute belt for chain where appropriate.
Safe's would be Single Chain: Motor-crank-Wheel
Nick
Tiberius
10 kW
OK, simpler is better.
Hub motors are a type of parallel drive, but if they are called front hub motor, rear hub motor, that will be sufficient distinction.
Parallel could also be...
Parallel: left-right drive
Parallel: same side drive
Parallel: chain & belt
Nick
Hub motors are a type of parallel drive, but if they are called front hub motor, rear hub motor, that will be sufficient distinction.
Parallel could also be...
Parallel: left-right drive
Parallel: same side drive
Parallel: chain & belt
Nick
flyinmonkie
10 kW
If you look at the two drive systems (motor and pedals) and how they drive the rear hub and classify them that way.
from top to bottom
crank driven parallel
series driven (motor could be in any position, but there is only one chain)
independent driven (left or right)
motor driven parallel
FM
from top to bottom
crank driven parallel
series driven (motor could be in any position, but there is only one chain)
independent driven (left or right)
motor driven parallel
FM
Hi FM,
Good idea but...
1 - Surely the first one is a series drive, no? First one, then the other...
I prefer chainring driven because that is a bit more specific - if it was the cranks or the bottom bracket axle that were driven, it wouldn't be possible to isolate them (at least not with any commercially available parts). For a left-hand side drive, through the bottom-bracket, the axle/cranks are indeed driven.
3 - Independent or parallel?
4 - I would say this was series or "jackshaft convergent"
Good idea but...
1 - Surely the first one is a series drive, no? First one, then the other...
I prefer chainring driven because that is a bit more specific - if it was the cranks or the bottom bracket axle that were driven, it wouldn't be possible to isolate them (at least not with any commercially available parts). For a left-hand side drive, through the bottom-bracket, the axle/cranks are indeed driven.
3 - Independent or parallel?
4 - I would say this was series or "jackshaft convergent"
Hi, I've just been lurking for a while, but language and naming is a topic that always gets me going, I like safe's latest pretty well. How about, in order:
Motor First Series Drive
Single Chain Drive
Parallel Drive (could be any combination of chain/belt)
Crank First Series Drive (the crank is the key here - the pedals are just the human interface component)
Back to lurking now ...
John
Motor First Series Drive
Single Chain Drive
Parallel Drive (could be any combination of chain/belt)
Crank First Series Drive (the crank is the key here - the pedals are just the human interface component)
Back to lurking now ...
John
flyinmonkie
10 kW
Miles said:
I was thinking of the chains like wires in an electrical circuit. That would make 1 and 4 parallel with 2 sets of chains connecting the 2 drive systems. 2 would be series as there is one chain connecting the 2 drive systems, and 3 independent as the 2 chains drive the rear hub independently.
Just my thought process, it certainly could be flawed. :wink:
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
Needs to be very simple to be useful:
1. Crank Drive.
2. Single Chain Drive
3. Parallel Left (or just Left Hand Drive)
4. Parallel Right Drive
4. Dual Chain Serial Drive
This leaves out one types that is infrequently used. Safe wants a separate name so how about 'Single Chain Hub Pull" or perhaps more easily remembered "Single Chain Safe Style".
Needs to be very simple to be useful:
1. Crank Drive.
2. Single Chain Drive
3. Parallel Left (or just Left Hand Drive)
4. Parallel Right Drive
4. Dual Chain Serial Drive
This leaves out one types that is infrequently used. Safe wants a separate name so how about 'Single Chain Hub Pull" or perhaps more easily remembered "Single Chain Safe Style".
safe
1 GW
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2006
- Messages
- 5,681
Well I was focusing on the idea of a "direct pull" from the motor to the rear wheel in my design. My experience with using a two stage setup (what I called a "transaxle") was that the "transaxle" accepts a lot more torque than you think. I went through four failures of "transaxles" that blew up on me before I got it rugged enough to work. (and it has a few thousand miles on it now)
Any time the motor needs to pull through a bearing of any type that introduces a potential loss that I want to avoid. Trailing chains that just float through a bearing don't introduce as much friction... at least that was what I thought... but others have shown that bearings that don't fail actually are okay with higher loads as the friction seems to have a threshold that once passed never goes up.
But getting back to classification...
I like the name change from "Pedal First Series Drive" to "Crank First Series Drive"... in fact that solves the confusion problems that might have cropped up with "Pedal First" controllers.
So I like:
Motor First Series Drive
Single Chain Drive
Parallel Chain Drive
Crank First Series Drive
...and from this base level you could add additonal information to make it more specific, like Parallel Belt/Chain Drive or whatever specific unique feature you are running.
Motor First Series Drive
Single Chain Drive
Parallel Chain Drive
Crank First Series Drive
Some variations:
Direct Pull Single Chain Drive
Reverse Rotation Single Chain Drive (Cyclones use reverse rotation)
Left Side Belt, Right Side Chain Parallel Drive
Crank First Series Drive With Dual Independent Freewheels
etc...
Any time the motor needs to pull through a bearing of any type that introduces a potential loss that I want to avoid. Trailing chains that just float through a bearing don't introduce as much friction... at least that was what I thought... but others have shown that bearings that don't fail actually are okay with higher loads as the friction seems to have a threshold that once passed never goes up.
But getting back to classification...
I like the name change from "Pedal First Series Drive" to "Crank First Series Drive"... in fact that solves the confusion problems that might have cropped up with "Pedal First" controllers.
So I like:
Motor First Series Drive
Single Chain Drive
Parallel Chain Drive
Crank First Series Drive
...and from this base level you could add additonal information to make it more specific, like Parallel Belt/Chain Drive or whatever specific unique feature you are running.
Motor First Series Drive
Single Chain Drive
Parallel Chain Drive
Crank First Series Drive
Some variations:
Direct Pull Single Chain Drive
Reverse Rotation Single Chain Drive (Cyclones use reverse rotation)
Left Side Belt, Right Side Chain Parallel Drive
Crank First Series Drive With Dual Independent Freewheels
etc...
TylerDurden
100 GW
I just gave 'em names, because if you have to reference the drawings to understand the description/classification, you might as well reduce the keystroke count.
