New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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volcamin   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by volcamin » Dec 08 2020 8:28am

Hi, my tsdz2 motor with 750km does this creaking sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YkTqahKT-o

Recently i opened the motor, and tried to find what would be wrong with it. Everything seemed fine but I found this "scratch" in the aluminium behind the big main gear : https://imgur.com/a/uRT01ii

I wonder why would the big gear hit that thing? I also have little bit play in the axle, like in this video :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iOWg5nUjfo

Would that maybe allow the gear to move little bit under heavy load and hit the aluminium casing?

Have anyone fixed this ?

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feketehegyi   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Dec 10 2020 12:53am

I've played again with the RPM. :-)
[youtube]0Q_y8BIp-QM[/youtube]

jeff.page.rides   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeff.page.rides » Dec 13 2020 8:10pm

When your TSDZ2 stops all of a sudden and won't work anymore what's the best way to identify whether it's the controller or the motor?

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Dec 13 2020 9:23pm

volcamin wrote:
Dec 08 2020 8:28am
Hi, my tsdz2 motor with 750km does this creaking sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YkTqahKT-o

Recently i opened the motor, and tried to find what would be wrong with it. Everything seemed fine but I found this "scratch" in the aluminium behind the big main gear : https://imgur.com/a/uRT01ii

I wonder why would the big gear hit that thing? I also have little bit play in the axle, like in this video :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iOWg5nUjfo

Would that maybe allow the gear to move little bit under heavy load and hit the aluminium casing?

Have anyone fixed this ?
yeah, i'd say pretty good odds of that crank wobble causing the internal gear to scrape. I've not done any repair work on mine yet, so I don't know what sort of bearing is on the ND size you show in your vid.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Dec 16 2020 3:51am

This are the new developments on the TSDZ2 wireless, thanks to the big collaboration of other developers like @rananna.

As seen on the video, I change the TSDZ2 assist level on the wireless remote and the value is seen both on the mobile app and on the GPS display Garmin Edge - there is a delay showing the value although no clicks / changing levels steps are missing!
I do not show on the video but I can also change the assist level both on the mobile app or on the GPS display Garmin Edge.

[youtube]KHbebZZT29E[/youtube]

So, the small TSDZ2 wireless board is the only needed part to install on the EBike - the wireless remote, mobile app and wireless GPS display are optional, they are not needed at all! (the user will also be able to change the assist level on the wireless board on a switch button).

The EBike wireless remote can be bought on the market since there is a standard for it, although I built my own DIY using the VLCD5 wired remote and the small wireless board, and a coin cell - will include a connection to the brake sensors, make them also wireless.:
Image
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Dec 18 2020 2:05pm

Some news about the TSDZ2 wireless board:

I assembled a TSDZ2 wireless board and took pictures for future documentation. As you can see, the board is very small, easy to DIY and cheap (about 25€).

I put the wireless board under the DC-DC converter board. I used a perfboard to hold one board in one side and other on the other side and giving enough space to solder the only 2 extra components (mosfets).

DC-DC converter boar (60V battery -> 5V for the wireless board):
Image

Wireless board with all the needed wires soldered:
Image

The board is quite small, here the final cable to connect to TSDZ2 display connector:
Image

Finally I soldered the wires for STLinkV2 and connected to my PC, so I could flash the Bluetooth bootloader and finally the firmware using the bootloader:
Image

And finally testing by connecting the mobile app as also the Garmin GPS display:
[youtube]AklWXqSHkPU[/youtube]
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Andrew707   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Andrew707 » Dec 21 2020 1:58pm

Hello,

I've had lots of issues with my inner motor after disassembling it and applying thermal paste inside but eventually I made it work...for like 50km. I went for a longer ride and the motor was working fine while suddenly the power dropped and I've got E04 error on VLCD5 and I wasn't even going any steep hill or anything. Later I noticed that the motor works for about half a minute after turning the system on and then throws the error and disables. I've disassembled it and found a green wire connector burned a little bit.

Do you have any ideas what could be wrong? Why did it burn? Why only green wire was affected? I already replaced the inner motor with the new one and everything is working fine again (so far I have about 100km on it). But I'm a little bit afraid the the core problem is somewhere else and it may burn my new inner motor again.

P.S. I've done internal relay modifaction for powering lights out of the battery but I'm not sure if that may have caused the issue. When motor burned and was throwing error the lights continued to work fine.

Image

Doohickey   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Doohickey » Dec 22 2020 8:36am

Andrew707 wrote:
Dec 21 2020 1:58pm

Do you have any ideas what could be wrong? Why did it burn? Why only green wire was affected? I already replaced the inner motor with the new one and everything is working fine again (so far I have about 100km on it). But I'm a little bit afraid the the core problem is somewhere else and it may burn my new inner motor again.
The screws holding those wire connections together strip very easily - if the connection is poor, the resistance is higher and it may heat up and burn as a result. Make sure the connection is good and clean, and there's no remaining corrosion or something. I soldered mine.

Your old inner motor may still be good with just the screw / connection being bad?

The manual says e04 is related to throttle, so maybe check the wiring for that too.

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Dec 22 2020 1:40pm

I would use a bit of Deoxit D100 on those screw terminals.

fireflyer451   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by fireflyer451 » Dec 27 2020 2:56pm

When starting up the TSDZ2, configuration has you specify that the Right or Left pedal be 'down'. My question is:

What is the result (or symptoms) if you do not put the specified pedal down at startup?

I have calibrated the torque sensor and specified Right pedal down. But I cannot detect any difference in operation when starting with the Left pedal down. Curious to know what I might look for in this regard.

Thanks

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Dec 27 2020 3:06pm

how asymetric were your calibration numbers?

fireflyer451   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by fireflyer451 » Dec 27 2020 3:51pm

ADC values between right and left were very close. I ride a recumbent trike, so pedal pressure (weight) is fairly low. No standing on the pedals.

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Dec 27 2020 3:55pm

fireflyer451 wrote:
Dec 27 2020 3:51pm
ADC values between right and left were very close. I ride a recumbent trike, so pedal pressure (weight) is fairly low. No standing on the pedals.
in which case, the left-right start is less important.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Dec 27 2020 7:07pm

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Dec 27 2020 3:55pm
fireflyer451 wrote:
Dec 27 2020 3:51pm
ADC values between right and left were very close. I ride a recumbent trike, so pedal pressure (weight) is fairly low. No standing on the pedals.
in which case, the left-right start is less important.
Yes, that is correct. There are torque sensors were the measured values for left and right side are very different, hence I implemented the firmware to differentiate both sides when making the calculation of the force applied on the pedals.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

fireflyer451   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by fireflyer451 » Dec 27 2020 10:27pm

Thank you for the clarification.

BeachRider2016   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by BeachRider2016 » Dec 28 2020 7:16am

casainho wrote:
Dec 27 2020 7:07pm
LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Dec 27 2020 3:55pm
fireflyer451 wrote:
Dec 27 2020 3:51pm
ADC values between right and left were very close. I ride a recumbent trike, so pedal pressure (weight) is fairly low. No standing on the pedals.
in which case, the left-right start is less important.
Yes, that is correct. There are torque sensors were the measured values for left and right side are very different, hence I implemented the firmware to differentiate both sides when making the calculation of the force applied on the pedals.

I don’t know if you have a thread/post already working on a custom firmware for the bafang ultra ? You’d be the right man for that! Thanks for all your work on the tsdz.
My Ebike with chinese frame: viewtopic.php?t=83275
2nd Stealth clone ebb w/3k hub laced 19” dirt rim/tires
2 Walmart special dk duke fatties bbshd and the other w/1k rear hub motor
Full suspension fatty/AliExpress frame w/bbshd
29er hard tail w/tsdz 500w dyi programmed
Intense uzzi slx w/1600w mini cyclone
Trident fat trike 26” w/tsdz 500w diy programmed
Carbon fat bike Bafang ultra, DengfuE06 frame viewtopic.php?f=6&t=109970

Andrew707   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Andrew707 » Dec 28 2020 4:18pm

Doohickey wrote:
Dec 22 2020 8:36am
Andrew707 wrote:
Dec 21 2020 1:58pm

Do you have any ideas what could be wrong? Why did it burn? Why only green wire was affected? I already replaced the inner motor with the new one and everything is working fine again (so far I have about 100km on it). But I'm a little bit afraid the the core problem is somewhere else and it may burn my new inner motor again.
The screws holding those wire connections together strip very easily - if the connection is poor, the resistance is higher and it may heat up and burn as a result. Make sure the connection is good and clean, and there's no remaining corrosion or something. I soldered mine.

Your old inner motor may still be good with just the screw / connection being bad?

The manual says e04 is related to throttle, so maybe check the wiring for that too.
Thank you! Next time I'll disassemble the motor I'll try to clean connections and see if old motor still works!

Doohickey   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Doohickey » Dec 29 2020 8:24am

BeachRider2016 wrote:
Dec 28 2020 7:16am
I don’t know if you have a thread/post already working on a custom firmware for the bafang ultra ? You’d be the right man for that! Thanks for all your work on the tsdz.
(Other) bafang motors use a microcontroller for which there is no cheap programmer and development tools available - that's why there is so little customization / firmware / mods for them. I'd imagine the ultra is similar (?) - IIRC it's mostly based on the BBSHD with just a different housing.

one of the reasons the TSDZ2 has so good custom firmware because the microcontroller in it is an STM32 - which is well supported by low-cost hobbyist dev tools.

It's the same reason why the stock LCD that comes with the tsdz2 isn't really used together with the custom firmware, since that too is based on a non-programmable (for us) microcontroller. (the bafang LCD's use STM32 or nrf52, which is why they were used for tsdz2 custom firmware)

mdumdei   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mdumdei » Dec 29 2020 10:10pm

I've got a strange problem I can't figure out. My 850C display went out on me and so I updated to an 860C. At the same time, I went from 1.00 to 1.10 on the opensource software. I have a 29 bike with larger tires and setting the circumference to 2410 had me sync'd with my GPS perfectly with the 850C. I put that same number in under the 860C / 1.10 setup and I'm constantly showing about 85% of actual distance no matter what I put in for wheel circumference. I moved it to 2800 since that was what it calculated out to, but was still off by the exact same percentage as when I had it at 2410. I looked in the source and saw 2100 is the default which calcs out to about what I'm seeing (2100/2410 = .87). It looks like it is not using the number in the UI and always using the default. Also dug through the source for both 1.00 and 1.10 and saw nothing that would appear to cause that. The trip stuff is in 1.10, but it doesn't look like it handles retrieval of the settings from the eeprom or the moving of the wheel_perimeter value any differently than 1.00. If no one has any suggestions, I'm going to revert to 1.00 and see if that resolves it (in case I missed something). Going to blame the 860C if that doesn't change anything. FYI: I've been running on various renditions for the last 8,000 km and it just works - good stuff.

andyme   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andyme » Dec 30 2020 11:53am

Hi there,

today i got "error 3 torque"....

i can imagine it has to do with bad weather yesterday...maybe some humidity got somewhere and damaged something...who knows...

display/engine start normal but as soon as pressure on the pedal increases a bit, support stops and i get this error code.

is there a way of checking this without changing the torque sensor right away.... :warn: :? what would you suggest to do before starting to disassemble everything.... :confused:

I want to add two observations: when i press the walk assist button, i will get this error 3 torque fault message also. so i do not even need to ride the bike to get it. it also "works" when standing.
and: when i go in menu "technical" i do get changing values of the torque when i step on the pedal...so something seems to still be working there...no idea....

so my assumption is: engine failure? meaning: it cannot create the necessary torque and thus the error message..
what do you think?
Last edited by andyme on Dec 30 2020 1:42pm, edited 2 times in total.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Dec 30 2020 11:57am

mdumdei wrote:
Dec 29 2020 10:10pm
I've got a strange problem I can't figure out. My 850C display went out on me and so I updated to an 860C. At the same time, I went from 1.00 to 1.10 on the opensource software. I have a 29 bike with larger tires and setting the circumference to 2410 had me sync'd with my GPS perfectly with the 850C. I put that same number in under the 860C / 1.10 setup and I'm constantly showing about 85% of actual distance no matter what I put in for wheel circumference. I moved it to 2800 since that was what it calculated out to, but was still off by the exact same percentage as when I had it at 2410. I looked in the source and saw 2100 is the default which calcs out to about what I'm seeing (2100/2410 = .87). It looks like it is not using the number in the UI and always using the default. Also dug through the source for both 1.00 and 1.10 and saw nothing that would appear to cause that. The trip stuff is in 1.10, but it doesn't look like it handles retrieval of the settings from the eeprom or the moving of the wheel_perimeter value any differently than 1.00. If no one has any suggestions, I'm going to revert to 1.00 and see if that resolves it (in case I missed something). Going to blame the 860C if that doesn't change anything. FYI: I've been running on various renditions for the last 8,000 km and it just works - good stuff.
Maybe you can try to change the sources for you specific value and see if it works...
This issue is strange since no one reported it before but everyone used it!!
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

andyme   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andyme » Dec 30 2020 7:13pm

I apologize for the following question:..

The actual motor has 3 thick wires blue, green and yellow.

Can the battery be connected to (which) 2 of these in order to see if the motor works or if it is broken? My intention would be to simply.make the motor run.b applying voltage directly to it to see if it is still.working at all.

Or is there another way of checking this out without proper installation?

Many thanks in advance

mdumdei   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mdumdei » Dec 30 2020 7:14pm

casainho wrote:
Dec 30 2020 11:57am
mdumdei wrote:
Dec 29 2020 10:10pm
I've got a strange problem I can't figure out. My 850C display went out on me and so I updated to an 860C. At the same time, I went from 1.00 to 1.10 on the opensource software. I have a 29 bike with larger tires and setting the circumference to 2410 had me sync'd with my GPS perfectly with the 850C. I put that same number in under the 860C / 1.10 setup and I'm constantly showing about 85% of actual distance no matter what I put in for wheel circumference. I moved it to 2800 since that was what it calculated out to, but was still off by the exact same percentage as when I had it at 2410. I looked in the source and saw 2100 is the default which calcs out to about what I'm seeing (2100/2410 = .87). It looks like it is not using the number in the UI and always using the default. Also dug through the source for both 1.00 and 1.10 and saw nothing that would appear to cause that. The trip stuff is in 1.10, but it doesn't look like it handles retrieval of the settings from the eeprom or the moving of the wheel_perimeter value any differently than 1.00. If no one has any suggestions, I'm going to revert to 1.00 and see if that resolves it (in case I missed something). Going to blame the 860C if that doesn't change anything. FYI: I've been running on various renditions for the last 8,000 km and it just works - good stuff.
Maybe you can try to change the sources for you specific value and see if it works...
This issue is strange since no one reported it before but everyone used it!!
Did that, but it's been raining too much to check it out. Thought about just trying the 'Reset to Defaults' to and reconfiguring to see if that shook it loose. Going to try the version compiled with the new perimeter default first though.

Wapous   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Dec 30 2020 8:36pm

For many of us, the time has come for a good cleaning and refurbishment of our TSDZ2. This often involves the replacement of different bearings.
Hope this might help you.
Attachments
BB_Bearings_description.JPG
BB_Bearings_description.JPG (371.22 KiB) Viewed 625 times
Blue_Gear_description.jpg
Blue_Gear_description.jpg (525.33 KiB) Viewed 625 times

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Dec 31 2020 12:14am

andyme wrote:
Dec 30 2020 7:13pm
I apologize for the following question:..

The actual motor has 3 thick wires blue, green and yellow.

Can the battery be connected to (which) 2 of these in order to see if the motor works or if it is broken? My intention would be to simply.make the motor run.b applying voltage directly to it to see if it is still.working at all.

Or is there another way of checking this out without proper installation?

Many thanks in advance
no, its a 3 phase servo motor, you need to apply 3 phases of AC to it to get it to spin. higher the frequency the faster it turns, the phases should be synchronized with the encoder outputs for it to spin smoothly.

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