New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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HughF   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by HughF » Mar 15 2021 8:27am

devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 12 2021 12:56pm
After conversing with @casainho and talking about how we love our bikes and where they can take us, he asked me to post this picture I sent him.
Happy trails...
giant-anthem-s.jpg
Awesome battery pack design, awesome view... Could easily pass for the somerset levels, it looks so familiar to my stomping ground.
Genesis iOiD Alfine8 Hard tail MTB, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display
Raleigh reynolds road frame from the 80's, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display, 1x10 drivetrain, gravel tyres

devboy-greg   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by devboy-greg » Mar 15 2021 9:51am

HughF wrote:
Mar 15 2021 8:27am
devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 12 2021 12:56pm
After conversing with @casainho and talking about how we love our bikes and where they can take us, he asked me to post this picture I sent him.
Happy trails...
giant-anthem-s.jpg
Awesome battery pack design, awesome view... Could easily pass for the somerset levels, it looks so familiar to my stomping ground.
The Downs of Dorset... :D

HughF   100 W

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Location: Dorset, England

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by HughF » Mar 15 2021 11:50am

devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 15 2021 9:51am
HughF wrote:
Mar 15 2021 8:27am
devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 12 2021 12:56pm
After conversing with @casainho and talking about how we love our bikes and where they can take us, he asked me to post this picture I sent him.
Happy trails...
giant-anthem-s.jpg
Awesome battery pack design, awesome view... Could easily pass for the somerset levels, it looks so familiar to my stomping ground.
The Downs of Dorset... :D
Even closer, I'm actually in purbeck most of the time.
Genesis iOiD Alfine8 Hard tail MTB, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display
Raleigh reynolds road frame from the 80's, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display, 1x10 drivetrain, gravel tyres

devboy-greg   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by devboy-greg » Mar 15 2021 12:01pm

HughF wrote:
Mar 15 2021 11:50am
devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 15 2021 9:51am
HughF wrote:
Mar 15 2021 8:27am
devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 12 2021 12:56pm
After conversing with @casainho and talking about how we love our bikes and where they can take us, he asked me to post this picture I sent him.
Happy trails...
giant-anthem-s.jpg
Awesome battery pack design, awesome view... Could easily pass for the somerset levels, it looks so familiar to my stomping ground.
The Downs of Dorset... :D
Even closer, I'm actually in purbeck most of the time.
I rode there last year with the Dorset Rough Riders (when we were allowed), ...fab riding ...fab day! And you need an Ebike for those hills!!!

JohnAnanda   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by JohnAnanda » Mar 15 2021 6:49pm

Has anybody tried the Enerpower 500S-U TSDZ2 compatible display ?
It looks like an interesting alternative to the VLCD6, and it has a 500mA USB charging port.
https://enerprof.de/en/motor-kits/displ ... ble?c=234/
Attachments
500S_U_600x600@2x.png
500S_U_600x600@2x.png (66.47 KiB) Viewed 1098 times

dunc0000   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dunc0000 » Mar 21 2021 5:43am

Hello, i´m form spain, sorry form my english. I install 48v 500w version of tsdz2 with xh18 display. The motor no assist but he work well in walk assist mode. The batery have 54,11v full charged. Somebody know what might happen? Thank´s

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Mar 21 2021 6:11am

dunc0000 wrote:
Mar 21 2021 5:43am
...The motor no assist but he work well in walk assist mode. .....
Your speedsensor is problably to close to the magnet, sometimes it must be between 8-10mm.
Or the magnet is placed on the wrong place. It should face the arrow on the speedsensor.

dunc0000   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dunc0000 » Mar 21 2021 6:31am

Elinx wrote:
Mar 21 2021 6:11am
dunc0000 wrote:
Mar 21 2021 5:43am
...The motor no assist but he work well in walk assist mode. .....
Your speedsensor is problably to close to the magnet, sometimes it must be between 8-10mm.
Or the magnet is placed on the wrong place. It should face the arrow on the speedsensor.
I'll check the distance, but the speed is displayed. I will comment on the results

Hudson   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Hudson » Mar 21 2021 7:18am

Hi,
Please may I have some guidance. I have been having a great time with the TSDZ2 on a kona Stinky, mostly offroad trails. Its got the opensource code on it with an 860c which is a nice combination. Yesterday the motor packed in 20k from home, luckily it was at the highest peak and the trip back home was still fun under just my human power ( legs are feeling it today though) .

Here are the symptoms.

Total loss of power from motor; display and battery ok.

1. The back wheel will not free wheel at all, it feels very stiff, if i want to reverse I have to lift the back wheel. Got the bike on the stand now and can rotate the wheel backwards but it is not smooth. It rotates less than one revolution and then gets very stiff and then frees up, then rotates the same again before getting stiff.
2. Display showing the "torque sensor " error message E3
3. When I switch on walk assist it makes a small humming noise for a few seconds then stops with E3 message.
4. The Hall sensor seems to be responding out ( output from the Tech section shows they are responding, just difficult to read accurately with the stiff wheel going backwards.

I did some reading last night and it sounds like a Hall sensor may have failed, but the stiffness of the motor in reverse makes me think there could be additional issues to resolve. I am going to have to open the motor up to check this out, but as this is the first time opening one up for me I would appreciate any tips on what too look for.



Regards

Huds

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 21 2021 8:30am

Hudson wrote:
Mar 21 2021 7:18am
I did some reading last night and it sounds like a Hall sensor may have failed, but the stiffness of the motor in reverse makes me think there could be additional issues to resolve. I am going to have to open the motor up to check this out, but as this is the first time opening one up for me I would appreciate any tips on what too look for.
Maybe fail hall sensor, then or a motor phase wire and or burned motor controller power mosfets... Please report later.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Mar 21 2021 10:50am

dunc0000 wrote:
Mar 21 2021 6:31am
....
I'll check the distance, but the speed is displayed. I will comment on the results
If I assume that you have stock firmware, it could be that the overvoltage protection of the controller is working.
Had you already charged the battery to 54,11V?
Have you this behaviour with a partly discharged battery too?

dunc0000   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dunc0000 » Mar 21 2021 1:15pm

Elinx wrote:
Mar 21 2021 10:50am
dunc0000 wrote:
Mar 21 2021 6:31am
....
I'll check the distance, but the speed is displayed. I will comment on the results
If I assume that you have stock firmware, it could be that the overvoltage protection of the controller is working.
Had you already charged the battery to 54,11V?
Have you this behaviour with a partly discharged battery too?
Yes, is stock firmware, the batery and motor are new. Tomorrow try to discharge battery with walk assist. What is the maximum voltage that the controller supports?

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Mar 21 2021 1:50pm

dunc0000 wrote:
Mar 21 2021 1:15pm
..... What is the maximum voltage that the controller supports?
I don't know that value. Normally the motor must be running with full charged battery.

Doohickey   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Doohickey » Mar 21 2021 3:08pm

Hudson wrote:
Mar 21 2021 7:18am

1. The back wheel will not free wheel at all, it feels very stiff, if i want to reverse I have to lift the back wheel. Got the bike on the stand now and can rotate the wheel backwards but it is not smooth. It rotates less than one revolution and then gets very stiff and then frees up, then rotates the same again before getting stiff.
I think you'll have to take apart the motor to to figure anything out. Since it doesn't spin properly, this sounds to me like something broken / snapped / stripped / stuck (possibly the blue gear?). I'd start off by taking off the non-drive side cover to access the inner motor and blue gear (IMO this is one of the easier things to check, depending on your bike this can be done without even taking the crank off, just take off the pedal, slide the locking tool over the crank arm and loosen the big nut); check that everything in there looks good.

Beyond that the main drive gear is also relatively easy to access to check, you need to take off the spider and chairing I believe.

Be careful since both the outer hex screws as well as the inner phillips ones holding the motor unit strip easily - use a good tool and try to avoid letting it slip out as you undo them, and don't overtighten when putting back together. (I replaced mine with torx)

Mr.Flibble   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mr.Flibble » Mar 24 2021 9:25am

JohnAnanda wrote:
Mar 15 2021 6:49pm
Has anybody tried the Enerpower 500S-U TSDZ2 compatible display ?
It looks like an interesting alternative to the VLCD6, and it has a 500mA USB charging port.
https://enerprof.de/en/motor-kits/displ ... ble?c=234/
That's a Bafang 500c display.
It's supposed to be really nice.

JohnAnanda   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by JohnAnanda » Mar 24 2021 1:53pm

Mr.Flibble wrote:
Mar 24 2021 9:25am
JohnAnanda wrote:
Mar 15 2021 6:49pm
Has anybody tried the Enerpower 500S-U TSDZ2 compatible display ?
It looks like an interesting alternative to the VLCD6, and it has a 500mA USB charging port.
https://enerprof.de/en/motor-kits/displ ... ble?c=234/
That's a Bafang 500c display.
It's supposed to be really nice.
The case looks almost identical to the Bafang color 500C display indeed, but this "500S-U" seems to be monochrome and Enerprof sells it for almost 20€ cheaper than the 500C. I wonder if it's a 500C that they flashed to make it compatible with the TSDZ2 (in this case it seems weird that they would sell it cheaper than the original 500C). I'm tempted to get one to see if it would work with the OSF for stock displays..
Attachments
500C 500SU.jpg
500C 500SU.jpg (81.03 KiB) Viewed 692 times

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Mar 24 2021 2:04pm

JohnAnanda wrote:
Mar 24 2021 1:53pm
The case looks almost identical to the Bafang color 500C display indeed, but this "500S-U" seems to be monochrome and Enerprof sells it for almost 20€ cheaper than the 500C. I wonder if it's a 500C that they flashed to make it compatible with the TSDZ2 (in this case it seems weird that they would sell it cheaper than the original 500C). I'm tempted to get one to see if it would work with the OSF for stock displays..
not only monochrome, but also fixed layout display elements, not a pixel addressable display. now, the 500C, hard to say if thats pixel addressable, or it too is fixed elements but the speed numbers in the middle do not look fixed.

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Mar 25 2021 11:03am

How do you remove these two bearings?
TSDZ2_bearings_to_remove.JPG
TSDZ2_bearings_to_remove.JPG (253.51 KiB) Viewed 633 times

kensender   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by kensender » Mar 26 2021 3:25am

Hi everyone, first message in the forum :)

Sorry for the noob questions, can´t manage to find the answer in the thread...

Just bought a 36v TSDZ2 version and I want to flash it with OSF firmware and connect to a 48v 13S5P battery.

- Should I change the motor setting to 48v or can I connect the 48v battery without issues?
- What "Battery low voltage cut off" value should I set?

Hudson   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Hudson » Mar 27 2021 10:27am

Doohickey wrote:
Mar 21 2021 3:08pm
Hudson wrote:
Mar 21 2021 7:18am

1. The back wheel will not free wheel at all, it feels very stiff, if i want to reverse I have to lift the back wheel. Got the bike on the stand now and can rotate the wheel backwards but it is not smooth. It rotates less than one revolution and then gets very stiff and then frees up, then rotates the same again before getting stiff.
I think you'll have to take apart the motor to to figure anything out. Since it doesn't spin properly, this sounds to me like something broken / snapped / stripped / stuck (possibly the blue gear?). I'd start off by taking off the non-drive side cover to access the inner motor and blue gear (IMO this is one of the easier things to check, depending on your bike this can be done without even taking the crank off, just take off the pedal, slide the locking tool over the crank arm and loosen the big nut); check that everything in there looks good.

Beyond that the main drive gear is also relatively easy to access to check, you need to take off the spider and chairing I believe.

Be careful since both the outer hex screws as well as the inner phillips ones holding the motor unit strip easily - use a good tool and try to avoid letting it slip out as you undo them, and don't overtighten when putting back together. (I replaced mine with torx)
Thanks for the advice, I dismantled the motor and found the nylon gear was damaged, i had a spare metal one (think I still prefer the nylon one but its what i have here to test with) This fixed the issue with the motor jamming when spinning the wheel backwards. I then tried the motor out and still getting the same issue, Error 3 torque sensor error. I am running the 1.1.0 code if i remember correctly this error may be incorrectly titled and the error may be something else? I have the bike on a stand and when i engage walk mode the motor engages but is very week and not smooth, then if i put the rear brake on very gently to simulate the bike operating in normal walk mode rather than being on a stand the E3 message appears.

casainho said it could be one of the following earler, so i guess i need to check the following but i am not sure which order to try them in

"Maybe fail hall sensor, then or a motor phase wire and or burned motor controller power mosfets... Please report later."

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 27 2021 12:03pm

Hudson wrote:
Mar 27 2021 10:27am
Thanks for the advice, I dismantled the motor and found the nylon gear was damaged, i had a spare metal one (think I still prefer the nylon one but its what i have here to test with) This fixed the issue with the motor jamming when spinning the wheel backwards. I then tried the motor out and still getting the same issue, Error 3 torque sensor error. I am running the 1.1.0 code if i remember correctly this error may be incorrectly titled and the error may be something else? I have the bike on a stand and when i engage walk mode the motor engages but is very week and not smooth, then if i put the rear brake on very gently to simulate the bike operating in normal walk mode rather than being on a stand the E3 message appears.

casainho said it could be one of the following earler, so i guess i need to check the following but i am not sure which order to try them in

"Maybe fail hall sensor, then or a motor phase wire and or burned motor controller power mosfets... Please report later."
The hall sensors are quite easy to check wuth a multimeter. Measure the voltage from the hall connector between red or black and the rest of the colors, you should get consistent change of voltage from each one when you turn the motor.

If the phase wires were properly attached and show no signs of damage they are probably fine.

I don't know if theres any way to check the MOSFETs without removing the potting, you might need to get another controller.

beemac   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by beemac » Mar 27 2021 12:54pm

Having weird torque sensor issues on a new motor. Using the 860c to calibrate - either the ADC value is really high (900+) and slowly falls. Or if I can get it to stabilize at, say 170 with no load on the pedals.. Then if I apply load - the value increases but very slightly - e.g. with me standing on the pedals (105kg) maybe rises to 180 - then takes a long time to fall back to the starting value...

Anyone seen similar? Any ideas other than to replace torque sensor/motor. Sod's law it's a motor i've already installed the temp sensor on - so no hope of any warranty...

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 27 2021 3:18pm

beemac wrote:
Mar 27 2021 12:54pm
Having weird torque sensor issues on a new motor. Using the 860c to calibrate - either the ADC value is really high (900+) and slowly falls. Or if I can get it to stabilize at, say 170 with no load on the pedals.. Then if I apply load - the value increases but very slightly - e.g. with me standing on the pedals (105kg) maybe rises to 180 - then takes a long time to fall back to the starting value...

Anyone seen similar? Any ideas other than to replace torque sensor/motor. Sod's law it's a motor i've already installed the temp sensor on - so no hope of any warranty...
You really need to check your torque sensor, I saw that kind of issues with a broquen one...
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

beemac   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by beemac » Mar 27 2021 5:12pm

casainho wrote:
Mar 27 2021 3:18pm
beemac wrote:
Mar 27 2021 12:54pm
Having weird torque sensor issues on a new motor. Using the 860c to calibrate - either the ADC value is really high (900+) and slowly falls. Or if I can get it to stabilize at, say 170 with no load on the pedals.. Then if I apply load - the value increases but very slightly - e.g. with me standing on the pedals (105kg) maybe rises to 180 - then takes a long time to fall back to the starting value...

Anyone seen similar? Any ideas other than to replace torque sensor/motor. Sod's law it's a motor i've already installed the temp sensor on - so no hope of any warranty...
You really need to check your torque sensor, I saw that kind of issues with a broquen one...
Thanks, yes I think sadly that's looking like it's the case - I've tried lots of things and it's still the same... have another motor on order then I'll dig into this one and see if I can find the problem.

What's interesting though is how the motor behaves.... Turning the pedals briefly the motor runs (fast) and stops - but turning for more than about 3/4 of a turn it runs away at a crazy rate only stopping when you use the brakes - on the 860 the motor rpm and pwm values go into the red - riding it is quite alarming, the acceleration is pretty dramatic. Motor heats up pretty quick too...

I wonder if there's a filter/threshold on the torque adc that's not working properly - as if you didn't have good brakes/brake sensors - it would be quite a rollercoaster :)

Doohickey   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Doohickey » Mar 29 2021 2:24am

Hudson wrote:
Mar 27 2021 10:27am

"Maybe fail hall sensor, then or a motor phase wire and or burned motor controller power mosfets... Please report later."
If you disconnect the inner motor and check the three phase wires with multimeter, all combinations should show the same resistance relative to each other (if I'm correct..). If you spin the motor by hand, it should have a "magnetic" feeling, which goes away and it turns smoothly when you short the three wires together.

Otherwise it could be the controller, or hall sensor, (or something else...)

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