New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Jan 13 2022 11:10am

gordone wrote:
Jan 12 2022 3:24pm
....
I have double checked my wiring between the display and TSDZ2 against these guide:
https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ ... C-to-TSDZ2
...
Read & look carefully, ignore the mention of colors and concentrate at the circles on the pin's of the two pictures to connect the right pin's

Big_Daddy   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Big_Daddy » Jan 22 2022 8:37am

Wapous wrote:
Jan 30 2021 10:18am
casainho wrote:
Jan 29 2021 7:40am
Wapous wrote:
Jan 27 2021 6:14pm
casainho wrote:
Jan 27 2021 1:13pm

It is your design? If so, can you share the source files? because I am pretty sure they can be very useful for others.

And I wish some mechanical guy could improve the motor by reducing the noise - I think the noise comes from the gears, maybe from the main gear and the pinion gear.

I did industrial design for several years. I have been using Solidworks software since 2000.
Obviously I would be happy to offer the reverse engineering drawings free of charge but NOT in the native form.
Those interested only have to ask for the desired format.
Like STEP, DXF, SAT, IGES etc.
Note: The CAD files you see in my mail are not for production but for viewing. But these CAD drawings are faithful to the components of the TSDZ2 engine.
Can you please please share in STEP files as also that images, so I can add to our github and to the TSDZ2 FAQ repair page?
I am sending a step file of an assembly. If you want individual files let me know. Witch program are you using to open the step files?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QTW4yI ... sp=sharing
Animations will follow soon.
Wapous, does your Solidworks CAD file have the motor cover and body included? I imported it into Fusion 360 and and it has the internal components with pedal cranks. Really great work you have done with this!

Wapous   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Jan 23 2022 11:29am

Wapous, does your Solidworks CAD file have the motor cover and body included? I imported it into Fusion 360 and and it has the internal components with pedal cranks. Really great work you have done with this!

New step assembly with covers. Note: The main helical gear teeth are conform and can be used for production. All other parts are for illustration purpose only. Around 450 meg.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HMBWYk ... sp=sharing

Big_Daddy   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Big_Daddy » Jan 23 2022 7:33pm

Wapous wrote:
Jan 23 2022 11:29am
Wapous, does your Solidworks CAD file have the motor cover and body included? I imported it into Fusion 360 and and it has the internal components with pedal cranks. Really great work you have done with this!

New step assembly with covers. Note: The main helical gear teeth are conform and can be used for production. All other parts are for illustration purpose only. Around 450 meg.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HMBWYk ... sp=sharing
Wapous, thanks for sharing! This is really great work. Imported perfectly

lolo2905   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by lolo2905 » Jan 24 2022 2:09am

Hello,.
I have a manufactured bike with a tsdz2 36v included. I tried multiple times to flash through the explained process but always get device not detected.

The difference is that that the speed sensor is a 6 pin but not the usual wires. It's more like Julet cable with 6 colors ( black, red , yellow, white , green & blue).

As anyone experienced this and could advice how to detect SWIM GND & VCC wires ? Thanks

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Jan 24 2022 6:44am

lolo2905 wrote:
Jan 24 2022 2:09am
...
I have a manufactured bike with a tsdz2 36v included. I tried multiple times to flash through the explained process but always get device not detected......
I don't exact understand what you describe with these colors, because normally you only need the to unplug the connector.
imho there should be no problem to connect the STlink wires directly to the Tsdz2 speed plug.

I don't know were you have bought this Tsdz2, but if it is from Enerprof Germany, then you have for sure a new controller version, which can't be flashed with STlink.
Also the current version of osf is not suitable either.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 28 2022 7:39am

About TSDZ2 firmware on the new V2 motor controller

I am being developing, testing and learning FOC motor controller. I am using the EScooter M365 because there is high interest on it, because like TSDZ2, it is a really cheap option. The motor controller is cheap as the TSDZ2 one, and widely available.

Unfortunately, the TSDZ2 V1 and V2 microcontrollers are inferior and so this FOC motor controller code can not be directly reused. However, there are parts that could be reused and I am pretty sure would improve current OpenSource firmware, like the angle estimation using the PLL. And on TSDZ2 V2 motor controller, probably the FOC code could be adapted and be much more improved.

But to do all this, it is need time!! Or at least more developers whiling to do it. What I did strategically was to make a FOC motor control code (based on EBICS firmware) as a library / git submodule to be included on different projects, so developers can reuse this piece of technology and saving time: https://github.com/EBiCS/EBiCS_motor_FOC

Image

So I hope this code can be reused by other developers and get more traction, and who knows, help the TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware developers!! (can be me in future, if I have time to revise the current TSDZ2 motor firmware).

By the way, I am also working on our DIY, customizable, easy to to build and repair motor controller, running our OpenSource firmware. I am always asking to myself: should I focus on developing the firmware for TSDZ2 new V2 motor controller or try to exchange that motor controller by my own DIY motor controller, that already has good performance??

Here is our very first prototype, running our FOC firmware, driving a M365 motor:
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

charakaSamawry   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by charakaSamawry » Jan 28 2022 12:53pm

Dang. Went to get on my bike today (TSDZ2 with open source kt-lcd3) and the temps are instantly saying they are over 100C jumping around..
Is this likely water in the LCD or the motor housing? i have opened the motor housing and the wires around the temp sensor all look dry so im a bit confused what's going on. Was definitely wet last time i went out and i hosed the bike down, as ive done many times before, but never had this issue..

Have stripped down the bike and bought motor and screen indoors to dry out in the warm so hopefully any water inside dries out.

Has anyone had this issue before?

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 28 2022 5:04pm

casainho wrote:
Jan 28 2022 7:39am
About TSDZ2 firmware on the new V2 motor controller

I am being developing, testing and learning FOC motor controller. I am using the EScooter M365 because there is high interest on it, because like TSDZ2, it is a really cheap option. The motor controller is cheap as the TSDZ2 one, and widely available.

Unfortunately, the TSDZ2 V1 and V2 microcontrollers are inferior and so this FOC motor controller code can not be directly reused. However, there are parts that could be reused and I am pretty sure would improve current OpenSource firmware, like the angle estimation using the PLL. And on TSDZ2 V2 motor controller, probably the FOC code could be adapted and be much more improved.

But to do all this, it is need time!! Or at least more developers whiling to do it. What I did strategically was to make a FOC motor control code (based on EBICS firmware) as a library / git submodule to be included on different projects, so developers can reuse this piece of technology and saving time: https://github.com/EBiCS/EBiCS_motor_FOC

Image

So I hope this code can be reused by other developers and get more traction, and who knows, help the TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware developers!! (can be me in future, if I have time to revise the current TSDZ2 motor firmware).
Today I connected TSDZ2 motor to Xiaomi M365 motor controller running our OpenSource firmware. I can tell you that the motor noise and vibrations are very low, I never saw it running so good. On the lab power supply I can see the current it uses and it is also a low value as expected:

- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

Malloot   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Malloot » Jan 30 2022 10:49am

I have an issue with my TSDZ2 that I don't understand. I left it outside on a cold and wet night (0C 100% humid and rainy), I normally leave it inside at night. The next morning it didn't even turn on, the controller shorted, and I had a spare at work, replaced the controller and it turns on again.

But now the torque sensor does not seem to react, the walking function still works so my new controller works. What can I do to get the torque sensor working again? Not running the open-source FW, the install seems to hard for a newb like me.

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Jan 31 2022 9:00am

Malloot wrote:
Jan 30 2022 10:49am
.... What can I do to get the torque sensor working again? Not running the open-source FW,.....
If you have a vlcd5 with stock FW, you can check with the hidden menu the TE and TE1 values of the torque sensor for zero and max weight. Check this first to determine if the torque sensor is the cause.
When you see different values it will be another sensor (PAS or speed)

wesmamyke   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wesmamyke » Feb 02 2022 1:24am

Recently got a kit from Eco cycles, have maybe 100 miles on it. Got the brass gear pre-installed as that seemed to be the major issue. Pretty sure I'm already over heating the thing, but that and many other issues are not really preventing me from using the motor.

One odd issue I can't seem to find any reference to while searching this massive thread, I'm having lots of noise while NOT under power. While running it's a pretty consistent buzzing, as soon as you come off power it sounds like a coffee can full of bolts. At first I thought it was the chain jumping off, have the narrow wide ring now and pretty sure it's not that.

Certainly seems like it's the large clutch bearing disengaging, I've never heard a one way bearing make noise like that though. I pulled the spider to change the chainring, only thing wrong was a stripped bolt straight from Eco cycles. Nothing else seemed to be exploding so I put it back together. I ordered all the bearings so I can rebuild it if I have to, but also need to get around on the bike.

Eco cycles has been pretty much useless with support so any help would be appreciated.

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Feb 02 2022 5:10am

wesmamyke wrote:
Feb 02 2022 1:24am
.....
.seems like it's the large clutch bearing disengaging, I've never heard a one way bearing make noise like that though. ....
That sprag clutch is not of high quality, but should last more than 100 miles. You see a lot of sideplay in the spider?
You can prevent the wear of it a bit with inserting an extra spindle bearing (waterproof) inside the spider, instead of the rubber seal. (On the other side of the spindle you can add a bearing too behind the rubber seal)
But in this case I think even these two extra bearings couldn't help you.

Akita   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Akita » Feb 02 2022 9:52am

Elinx wrote:
Jan 31 2022 9:00am
Malloot wrote:
Jan 30 2022 10:49am
.... What can I do to get the torque sensor working again? Not running the open-source FW,.....
If you have a vlcd5 with stock FW, you can check with the hidden menu the TE and TE1 values of the torque sensor for zero and max weight. Check this first to determine if the torque sensor is the cause.
When you see different values it will be another sensor (PAS or speed)
Press power and i buttons simultaneousfor 10 seconds under ODO menu, then only press to show “ODO”, “TRIP”, “AVG”, “TIME”, “TE”and “TE1”respectively.

Does not work.
Display turns off.
What am I doing wrong?

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Feb 02 2022 12:11pm

Akita wrote:
Feb 02 2022 9:52am
.....

Does not work.
Display turns off.
What am I doing wrong?
If that is the case, it looks that you press the power only.
This works only with stock firmware. Not with OSF

There are different Vlcd5 manuals for different controllers
You have quoted the manual of Enerpower, which does sell the new (not flashable) controller only. I am not sure if that new stock FW can show TE values too.

For the old controller I read here:
"To show the hidden settings, you should press these two buttons (power and i) simultaneously for 3 seconds on the startup screen, then quick press the i button 4 times, you will then see the first setting. If you leave the setting menu for a few seconds, the LCD will exit the setting mode."

blowhole   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by blowhole » Feb 02 2022 2:23pm

Akita wrote:
Feb 02 2022 9:52am
Press power and i buttons simultaneousfor 10 seconds under ODO menu, then only press to show “ODO”, “TRIP”, “AVG”, “TIME”, “TE”and “TE1”respectively.

Does not work.
Display turns off.
What am I doing wrong?
Try the alternate procedure I described in this post (at the end): viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1671199#p1671199

Akita   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Akita » Feb 03 2022 1:06pm

blowhole wrote:
Feb 02 2022 2:23pm
Akita wrote:
Feb 02 2022 9:52am
Press power and i buttons simultaneousfor 10 seconds under ODO menu, then only press to show “ODO”, “TRIP”, “AVG”, “TIME”, “TE”and “TE1”respectively.

Does not work.
Display turns off.
What am I doing wrong?
Try the alternate procedure I described in this post (at the end): viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1671199#p1671199
Thanks!
Works perfectly.
TE = 85 and TE1 = 0

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Feb 03 2022 1:20pm

Akita wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:06pm
....
TE = 85 and TE1 = 0
Under which conditions?
imho they should be equal with no load, while TE1 should be go higher with load on the pedals
This is with old controller, but don't know if this is also for new (not flashable) controller

Akita   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Akita » Feb 03 2022 1:35pm

Elinx wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:20pm
Akita wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:06pm
....
TE = 85 and TE1 = 0
Under which conditions?
imho they should be equal with no load, while TE1 should be go higher with load on the pedals
This is with old controller, but don't know if this is also for new (not flashable) controller
No pressure on the pedal.

Akita   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Akita » Feb 03 2022 1:36pm

Akita wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:35pm
Elinx wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:20pm
Akita wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:06pm
....
TE = 85 and TE1 = 0
Under which conditions?
imho they should be equal with no load, while TE1 should be go higher with load on the pedals
This is with old controller, but don't know if this is also for new (not flashable) controller
No pressure on the pedal.
I have a V2 control unit.

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Feb 03 2022 1:40pm

Akita wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:36pm
....
No pressure on the pedal.
....
I have a V2 control unit.
I'm curious what happens with load on the pedal, because V2 look to behave different from V1 for the TE/TE1 values.
If the TE zero value (no load) already is equalized with TE1 it explains the 0 value for it, but will rise with some load.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Akita » Feb 03 2022 1:51pm

Elinx wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:40pm
Akita wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:36pm
....
No pressure on the pedal.
....
I have a V2 control unit.
I'm curious what happens with load on the pedal, because V2 look to behave different from V1 for the TE/TE1 values.
If the TE zero value (no load) already is equalized with TE1 it explains the 0 value for it, but will rise with some load.
Under load, TE1 = 0.
The value does not change.

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Feb 03 2022 3:09pm

Akita wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:51pm
...
Under load, TE1 = 0.
The value does not change.
This behaviour is not the same as with old v1 controller.
If TE also doesn't change under load, there is no option to check the torquesensor with vlcd5 for the new controller.

Because it looks there is a different behaviour, it could be possible to find out whether some has an old or new controller inside the Tsdz2 and don't need a multimeter to measure the speedconnector.

Akita   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Akita » Feb 04 2022 4:06am

Elinx wrote:
Feb 03 2022 3:09pm
Akita wrote:
Feb 03 2022 1:51pm
...
Under load, TE1 = 0.
The value does not change.
This behaviour is not the same as with old v1 controller.
If TE also doesn't change under load, there is no option to check the torquesensor with vlcd5 for the new controller.

Because it looks there is a different behaviour, it could be possible to find out whether some has an old or new controller inside the Tsdz2 and don't need a multimeter to measure the speedconnector.
No pedal force TE = 85.
With pedal force, TE increases.
Previously, only TE was for pedal force control.

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Feb 04 2022 5:16am

Akita wrote:
Feb 04 2022 4:06am
....With pedal force, TE increases....
In that case the conclusion I would give is that it is possible to determine if it is an old or new controller version by checking TE/TE1 values with VLCD5 hidden settings.

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