New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 07 2021 5:42pm

Wapous wrote:
Nov 07 2021 5:04pm
TSDZ2 engine is no longer listed on Tongsheng website "www.tsbicycle.net".
And most of the sellers have stopped selling it.
It is rumored that Bafang is suing Tongsheng.
Will replacement parts be available in the long term?
There is a discussion about this on facebook
https://m.facebook.com/groups/734929600180813/
I was thinking of buying two TSDZ2 engines this spring for friends but I will follow the development of this story.
Thanks for the news!! this is an important warning. I never expected this end :-(
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

Wapous   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Nov 08 2021 4:45am

I have received info from Tangsheng office:

"This motor TSDZ2 is being upgraded currently, so the old model isn't listed on the official website. "

So we will be waiting for development.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 08 2021 4:56am

Wapous wrote:
Nov 08 2021 4:45am
I have received info from Tangsheng office:

"This motor TSDZ2 is being upgraded currently, so the old model isn't listed on the official website. "

So we will be waiting for development.
Thanks.

Time to make a wish list and see if that will happen.

For me I only wish it to be more silent and keep the same weight, or even better if the weight is even less.
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

CKBuijs   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by CKBuijs » Nov 10 2021 9:12am

I emailed EcoCycles (Nashville, TN, USA) about the law suit a couple weeks ago. Hopefully it is resolved. Here is their response:

RE: The infringement legal ruling - it's not a problem here. Tongsheng has already addressed the issue, moving some production to an already established location in Japan, among other changes. No worries.

Best Regards

CKBuijs   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by CKBuijs » Nov 10 2021 9:19am

I am finally starting to get comfortable with the TSDZ2 after living with it a few weeks (Casainho OSF V1.1, 650C display).

I still need to set the battery resistance; the wiki method wasn't working (it stays at 0); I've ordered a resistance tester (AideTek SM8124A Portable Battery Internal Resistance Voltmeter Resistance Tester).

New thing I noticed is that the battery bar indicator started showing very low even though my battery voltage was fine. Now it shows nothing. Hasn't affected performance though. Any one seen this?

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Nov 10 2021 10:17am

CKBuijs wrote:
Nov 10 2021 9:19am
New thing I noticed is that the battery bar indicator started showing very low even though my battery voltage was fine. Now it shows nothing. Hasn't affected performance though. Any one seen this?
Perhaps your battery reset voltage is higher than the voltage of your charged battery?

Wapous   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Nov 11 2021 11:52am

It is interesting to read this article on the Edrivenet.com site
Among other things it is written this:

"September 2021: Bafang has sued Tongsheng for patent infringement. Bafang has won this lawsuit, therefore the Tongsheng TSDZ2 officially can’t be sold on big platforms like Aliexpress and Amazon anymore. Because of this, it can be hard to find sellers of the Tongsheng TSDZ2 on these platforms. Sellers on Aliexpress and Amazon now don’t use the official name anymore to avoid getting their listings removed by the platforms."

https://edrivenet.com/tongsheng-tsdz2-vs-bafang-bbs02/

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Nov 11 2021 12:09pm

Wapous wrote:
Nov 11 2021 11:52am
It is interesting to read this article on the Edrivenet.com site
Among other things it is written this:

"September 2021: Bafang has sued Tongsheng for patent infringement. Bafang has won this lawsuit, therefore the Tongsheng TSDZ2 officially can’t be sold on big platforms like Aliexpress and Amazon anymore. Because of this, it can be hard to find sellers of the Tongsheng TSDZ2 on these platforms. Sellers on Aliexpress and Amazon now don’t use the official name anymore to avoid getting their listings removed by the platforms."

https://edrivenet.com/tongsheng-tsdz2-vs-bafang-bbs02/
Very good writing in edrivenet.com about the differences between bafang and TSDZ2. Thank you for shearing.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 11 2021 12:52pm

Wapous wrote:
Nov 11 2021 11:52am
It is interesting to read this article on the Edrivenet.com site
Among other things it is written this:

"September 2021: Bafang has sued Tongsheng for patent infringement. Bafang has won this lawsuit, therefore the Tongsheng TSDZ2 officially can’t be sold on big platforms like Aliexpress and Amazon anymore. Because of this, it can be hard to find sellers of the Tongsheng TSDZ2 on these platforms. Sellers on Aliexpress and Amazon now don’t use the official name anymore to avoid getting their listings removed by the platforms."

https://edrivenet.com/tongsheng-tsdz2-vs-bafang-bbs02/
So sad as TSDZ2 is such important technology for ebikes, Bafang lags behind and decided to make only available the torque sensor on expensive models (integrated motor).

We really need accessible technology, and not locked one that is only to protect the business models of expensive brands.

I really hope we can keep buying TSDZ2. I just built a bigger display, with the same size OLED display as SW102, that works for TSDZ2 but since the firmware and hardware are OpenSource and DIY, it is future prof that can be adapted for future motors:
Image

Image
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Nov 11 2021 3:30pm

dameri wrote:
Nov 11 2021 12:09pm
.....

"September 2021: Bafang has sued Tongsheng for patent infringement. ....
The only similarity between Bafang and Tongsheng I can think of is the bottom bracket mounting.
When the sue was about that, then I fear for the future production of the Tsdz2.

gfmoore   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gfmoore » Nov 11 2021 4:06pm

I doubt they'll stop making motors. Far too much money in them. TSDZ3 (or is it 4!) :D
Known purveyor of useless questions :roll:

Wapous   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Nov 11 2021 5:22pm

Elinx wrote:
Nov 11 2021 3:30pm
dameri wrote:
Nov 11 2021 12:09pm
.....

"September 2021: Bafang has sued Tongsheng for patent infringement. ....
The only similarity between Bafang and Tongsheng I can think of is the bottom bracket mounting.
When the sue was about that, then I fear for the future production of the Tsdz2.
It looks like this patent was filled by SunStar around 2007.
Attachments
SunStar-Patent_EP-2-143-628-B1.pdf
(363.19 KiB) Downloaded 99 times

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Nov 12 2021 4:53am

Wapous wrote:
Nov 11 2021 5:22pm
....
It looks like this patent was filled by SunStar around 2007.
I found here that Sunstar sued Bafang too for the BBS01.

Woody100DK   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Woody100DK » Nov 12 2021 3:17pm

I've decided to upgrade my Winther Kangaroo Luxe Cargo bike with a TSDZ2 250W 36V coaster brake model with a 48V battery and XH18 display. I intend to flash it with emmebrusas 20.1c later on. I have a couple of questions and doubts which I was hoping anybody could help me with:

1. Does anybody know of an upgrade to the Winther Kangaroo Luxe with a TSDZ2?

2. Originally I had planned to install the 350W motor but that would mean it wasn't road legal in Denmark. I have read that the only difference between the different models (250W, 350W, 500W) is a setting and nothing to do with any electrical components, is that correct?
In that case i could buy the 250W and upgrade if desired.

3. I have read on a forum that it's best to combine the 36V motor with a 48V battery as that gives it more power, is that correct?

4. Does it make sense to fit it with a hand break sensor since i have a coaster brake on it? It's a hydraulic brake. Is it even possible with the XH18?

5. The battery would be placed app. 1,5m from the motor, that shouldn't be a problem correct?

6. I would like to hear if anybody sees an issue with mounting it on the frame? I'll attach some pictures.

7. Can anybody confirm that emmebrusas OSF works with a coaster brake motor?
I appreciate all the feedback and advice I can ge
Attachments
20211112_141124.jpg
20211112_141124.jpg (6.93 MiB) Viewed 1386 times

Doohickey   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Doohickey » Nov 13 2021 2:13am

Woody100DK wrote:
Nov 12 2021 3:17pm
2. Originally I had planned to install the 350W motor but that would mean it wasn't road legal in Denmark. I have read that the only difference between the different models (250W, 350W, 500W) is a setting and nothing to do with any electrical components, is that correct?
In that case i could buy the 250W and upgrade if desired.

3. I have read on a forum that it's best to combine the 36V motor with a 48V battery as that gives it more power, is that correct?
36v motor with 48v battery gives higher cadence (beyond 80 rpm or so), so yes, it gives higher power, but only when you pedal fast. Torque remains the same, just that you can pedal faster and still have torque from the motor (IIRC). If you pedal slower and want high power, IMO you should get a 48v motor with 48v battery. Out of the factory, only 36v motor is available with 250w rating - using 48v battery means that you'll have to pedal fast to get that additional power. 48v motor is only available with 500w/750w rating I think. Stock firmware will refuse to work with "wrong" voltage, you need to flash opensource firmware immediately to use this "mismatched" combination. Opensource firmware allows you to set power limit, so you can put 250w limit and theoretically make it road legal.
Woody100DK wrote:
Nov 12 2021 3:17pm
5. The battery would be placed app. 1,5m from the motor, that shouldn't be a problem correct?
no problem - just need to make / solder a wire extension.

thineight   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thineight » Nov 14 2021 4:39pm

Hello everyone.
Not sure this has been solved over the last months (I have a huuuge backlog on this thread).. but today I sketched a cap for the second plug of the speed sensor, that remains exposed to environment.. the black tape does not last long so I decided to 3D print my own solution.
Let me share it with you in case you need a working solution to protect the exposed plug, of course you need a 3D printer.
Casainho, please see if you want to put the STL in the main wiki for wider audience.

Thanks
Cap speed sensor cable TSDZ2.zip
(33.7 KiB) Downloaded 507 times
tappo.png
tappo.png (29.25 KiB) Viewed 1266 times
MTB KTM Ultra 29" - City bike DAYTONA 28"

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 14 2021 4:43pm

thineight wrote:
Nov 14 2021 4:39pm
Hello everyone.
Not sure this has been solved over the last months (I have a huuuge backlog on this thread).. but today I sketched a cap for the second plug of the speed sensor, that remains exposed to environment.. the black tape does not last long so I decided to 3D print my own solution.
Let me share it with you in case you need a working solution to protect the exposed plug, of course you need a 3D printer.
Casainho, please see if you want to put the STL in the main wiki for wider audience.

Thanks
Cap speed sensor cable TSDZ2.zip

tappo.png
Yes, please add to the wiki.
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

thineight   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thineight » Nov 15 2021 4:14pm

casainho wrote:
Nov 14 2021 4:43pm
Yes, please add to the wiki.
I'm afraid I'm not able to do that, I'm not that skilled with github :roll: .
Sorry, can you do that in the proper section?
Te cap fits with a "click", but perhaps printed at 99% scale gives a tighter fit.
MTB KTM Ultra 29" - City bike DAYTONA 28"

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 15 2021 6:29pm

I just installed the second unit of the DIY OpenSource display on my mini cargo bike with TSDZ2:

Image

Image

thineight wrote:
Nov 15 2021 4:14pm
casainho wrote:
Nov 14 2021 4:43pm
Yes, please add to the wiki.
I'm afraid I'm not able to do that, I'm not that skilled with github :roll: .
Sorry, can you do that in the proper section?
Te cap fits with a "click", but perhaps printed at 99% scale gives a tighter fit.
Done, at the end of main page.
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

Wapous   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Nov 16 2021 3:03pm

Just for information.
This is the first time that I have installed a chain dedicated to electric bikes.
I mainly do road trips and normally I have to change the chain 2 to 3 times to cover 5000 km.
But this KMC chain for eBike is indestructible and after 5400 km it is still in the standards.
And of course the cassette will last much longer.
An expensive but profitable product.
Attachments
KMC 9 speed eBike.jpg
KMC 9 speed eBike.jpg (1.07 MiB) Viewed 1124 times

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 16 2021 6:41pm

I did finish the configurations menus. Next week I will be using this firmware on my EBikes and if all goes well, I will make a release and I will document the build process for the display, as also update the TSDZ2 wiki:

Image

Image

Image
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

feyris   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feyris » Nov 17 2021 6:02am

Woody100DK wrote:
Nov 12 2021 3:17pm
I've decided to upgrade my Winther Kangaroo Luxe Cargo bike with a TSDZ2 250W 36V coaster brake model with a 48V battery and XH18 display. I intend to flash it with emmebrusas 20.1c later on. I have a couple of questions and doubts which I was hoping anybody could help me with:

1. Does anybody know of an upgrade to the Winther Kangaroo Luxe with a TSDZ2?

2. Originally I had planned to install the 350W motor but that would mean it wasn't road legal in Denmark. I have read that the only difference between the different models (250W, 350W, 500W) is a setting and nothing to do with any electrical components, is that correct?
In that case i could buy the 250W and upgrade if desired.

3. I have read on a forum that it's best to combine the 36V motor with a 48V battery as that gives it more power, is that correct?

4. Does it make sense to fit it with a hand break sensor since i have a coaster brake on it? It's a hydraulic brake. Is it even possible with the XH18?

5. The battery would be placed app. 1,5m from the motor, that shouldn't be a problem correct?

6. I would like to hear if anybody sees an issue with mounting it on the frame? I'll attach some pictures.

7. Can anybody confirm that emmebrusas OSF works with a coaster brake motor?
I appreciate all the feedback and advice I can ge
2: You can order any power. I added a 250W sticker on mine just in case.
4: No need to add a hand break sensor for you. You may adapt the sensor to any moving part on the coaster brake, not sure how it's work.
5: no pb.
6: verify you can reroute the black cable to upper the pedals axe, it may interfere with the motor here.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 17 2021 7:22am

Pictures of my 5 months old baby, while we do our daily ride on the mini cargo bike with TSDZ2 -- sleeping at the end.

I am being testing the display and the screen data on the display, is almost invisible against the sunlight - my only hope is that this OLED displays get better over time.

Image

Image

Image
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 19 2021 2:37pm

I am updating the website documentation and I am proud of what we got so far. I am all for repairing and reusing and that are strong advantages for me, reusing the knowledge, technology and electronic components over different devices and in time, making this future prof.

https://opensourceebike.github.io/

Image
- TSDZ2 and OpenSource EV display: 128x64 OLED display, easy to build as DIY, Bluetooth and ANT, OTA wireless updates, easy to repair and customize for other EVs.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: OpenSource EV display, Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays.

Griepje   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Griepje » Nov 21 2021 2:03pm

Hi guys,i replaced my old tsdz2 for a new one after riding to long with shitty bearings, damaging the pass ant torque sensors on the way.
After about 1000km the new motor somtimes suddenly stops supporting making a strange noise as if it runs freely, (could it be running backwards?) trembling a little also and then just stops completely. At first stop and start pedaling was enough to make it go again but its getting worse. Tried putting it in a low gear pedaling fast today and it started to work again but that coold be coincidental. Changed my old vlcd5 for the new one but that doesn’t help. Before i take the whole thing apart, does anybody has a clue whats going on here.

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