New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
manoz   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz » Mar 10 2021 3:50pm

ilu wrote:
Mar 10 2021 3:05pm
manoz wrote:
Mar 10 2021 1:32pm
Hello all, I just inherited a tsdz2 motor from a collegue but the controller has a 8 pin connector and I have a 6 pin display. Is it a simple case of connected like for like colours at both ends together and leaving the 2 excess ones alone? Kind regards.
The colours in the wires do not match. Check this page for the proper combinations. If you want to use a brake sensor (or throttle), you can attach another cable(s) to the 8 wire cable as well, or just leave the excess wires cut.
Aah thanks for that, at least 2 are the same!

Jaybee258   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Jaybee258 » Mar 11 2021 5:37am

Waynemarlow wrote:
Mar 04 2021 5:08pm
Where ever you have the motor, you have same problem, offset. We have got around that problem by fitting the front chainring gear changer and using it as a guide rather than to change the chainring. With the spread now available on the 10spd rear gear sets of 11 - 48 you only need one front chainring.
Yes, I have done the same thing and fitted an 11-50 cassette and keeping the front gear changer fitted. The range works well on road and also for serious off road. The chain line looks bad, but my chain lasted 1000 miles, so who cares. That included plenty bottom gear work in mud and gritty conditions

Jaybee258   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Jaybee258 » Mar 11 2021 6:07am

Waynemarlow wrote:
Feb 17 2021 7:22am
Well that told me. Yup the Bosch does have a more pleasant noise but I would put the overall motor noise about the same as the best of the TSDZ2's we have.

Then we have the Bosch CX rattle when not peddling, the TSDZ2 is infinately quieter. When you can hear the rattle 2 bikes away as soon as you all stop peddling, then you know its loud and really annoying. :D
Hi Wayne. I think you are a master of good maintenance and quiet motors. As much of the noise will be from the gears, I wonder if your choice of grease could be a key issue. I bought some basic silicone grease for the plastic gear, but I'm not convinced. What grease would you recommend? Thank you.

Manbeer   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Manbeer » Mar 11 2021 6:38am

am i going nuts or do i recall that there was a way to get more info on the display (human power and watts etc)

fwiw, i only have the vlcd5 so i dont know if it was a different display or not, but when i first start it up i see many different spots on the lcd that look like it can do more, yet trying to find info on it, it seems about as no frills as possible

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 11 2021 6:58am

Manbeer wrote:
Mar 11 2021 6:38am
am i going nuts or do i recall that there was a way to get more info on the display (human power and watts etc)

fwiw, i only have the vlcd5 so i dont know if it was a different display or not, but when i first start it up i see many different spots on the lcd that look like it can do more, yet trying to find info on it, it seems about as no frills as possible
Yes, see here our EBike OpenSource firmware:
- https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki
- https://opensourceebike.github.io/
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Manbeer   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Manbeer » Mar 11 2021 11:01am

awesome, i knew i remembered it from somewhere!

i guess im finally going to have to bite the bullet and do it. ive been pretty happy with everything in stock format but i keep finding more reasons

Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Mar 11 2021 2:44pm

Manbeer wrote:
Mar 11 2021 6:38am
..... more info on the display (human power and watts etc)
.... i only have the vlcd5 .........
For vlcd5 you can try the latest build for stock displays made by mbrusa.
There is also the possibility to get that info on a vlcd5 too.
You only need a st link v2 for flashing the controller.
The basic settings can be programmed with a grafical interface on the PC.

TSDZ2 adapter   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by TSDZ2 adapter » Mar 12 2021 9:07am

Hi guys, don't you experience a wiggle / wobble of your TSDZ2 ?

devboy-greg   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by devboy-greg » Mar 12 2021 12:56pm

After conversing with @casainho and talking about how we love our bikes and where they can take us, he asked me to post this picture I sent him.
Happy trails...
giant-anthem-s.jpg
giant-anthem-s.jpg (377.52 KiB) Viewed 677 times

shirk   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shirk » Mar 12 2021 1:05pm

Just took a closer look at the torque sensor on one of the axles I had from destroying the transfer ring and it's occurred to me that the torque sensor itself is just a hall effect sensor reading the movement of the two little magnets. Am I correct here?

Chri_Tof   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Chri_Tof » Mar 13 2021 4:29am

shirk wrote:
Mar 12 2021 1:05pm
Just took a closer look at the torque sensor on one of the axles I had from destroying the transfer ring and it's occurred to me that the torque sensor itself is just a hall effect sensor reading the movement of the two little magnets. Am I correct here?
Jep. You are right.

https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index ... dz2.45029/

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 13 2021 4:56am

devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 12 2021 12:56pm
After conversing with @casainho and talking about how we love our bikes and where they can take us, he asked me to post this picture I sent him.
Happy trails...
Image
Your bicycle is beautiful but not so much as that fields view!!

I really like the battery design, also because is small and the way it is attached to the frame. Was that a DIY or did you bought it? can you please give more details about it? maybe some close up photos?
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

devboy-greg   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by devboy-greg » Mar 13 2021 9:40am

casainho wrote:
Mar 13 2021 4:56am
Your bicycle is beautiful but not so much as that fields view!!

I really like the battery design, also because is small and the way it is attached to the frame. Was that a DIY or did you bought it? can you please give more details about it? maybe some close up photos?
It is a custom built battery, I realised early on that the making of a full suss conversion would be the battery, most bought ones won’t fit in the frame especially when the rear suspension is using a piggy-back shock.

It’s 320wh, 13s 2p 185650 cells with BMS and internal fuse. I designed it in fusion 360, the case is 2.4mm 3d printed PETG, with 3d printed internal cell holders. It’s quite a bit of work to build one of these, so not for the faint hearted (I only do it out of necessity). I have designed and built other sizes as well.

I will take and post some pictures when I have it on the bike next, I use a simple but effective system of velcro straps to fit it to the frame using the water bottle cage bolts screwed all the way in just as locating pins (so it can’t rotate) which has so far never failed even in extreme rocky descents.
320wh battery.png
320wh battery.png (164.34 KiB) Viewed 604 times

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 13 2021 10:10am

devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 13 2021 9:40am
casainho wrote:
Mar 13 2021 4:56am
Your bicycle is beautiful but not so much as that fields view!!

I really like the battery design, also because is small and the way it is attached to the frame. Was that a DIY or did you bought it? can you please give more details about it? maybe some close up photos?
It is a custom built battery, I realised early on that the making of a full suss conversion would be the battery, most bought ones won’t fit in the frame especially when the rear suspension is using a piggy-back shock.

It’s 320wh, 13s 2p 185650 cells with BMS and internal fuse. I designed it in fusion 360, the case is 2.4mm 3d printed PETG, with 3d printed internal cell holders. It’s quite a bit of work to build one of these, so not for the faint hearted (I only do it out of necessity). I have designed and built other sizes as well.

I will take and post some pictures when I have it on the bike next, I use a simple but effective system of velcro straps to fit it to the frame using the water bottle cage bolts screwed all the way in just as locating pins (so it can’t rotate) which has so far never failed even in extreme rocky descents.

Image
Thanks for the explanation.

It is not only beautiful the final result (I must say all EBikes with TSDZ2 are a bit ugly because of that chinese battery case and because they are very big compared to the frame tube size - yours has a very good size!!).

My EBikes are also ugly even If my battery is custom. I need to design and 3D print also the enclosure for my batteries.

You have something I that I do not and that I want: my batteries are glued to the frame using the black tape (the same you seem to use around your 3D printed enclosure) and on long travels I wish to quick remove the battery like to charge on a restaurant while I eat or simple to exchange for a charged one. I need to look better to your solution of velcro straps and also that way to avoid rotation.

And I also have 2 batteries of 14S 2P 185650 cells with BMS, that is a nice size!! But we can always go to a size like 12S or 11S or any other with a 36V motor...

I wish we could have an OpenSource design for battery packs, with an easy fix way to be easily removable. Also the design should be parametric so user could change some parameters like the cells configuration. I think users are buying big batteries without the need, so ending with an heavy ebike and more expensive.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Manbeer   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Manbeer » Mar 13 2021 10:50am

as you were saying above, it seems like the 36 V is the best one to start out with for flexibility if you're planning on going OSF, Are there any disadvantages such as lower thermal mass?

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 13 2021 11:13am

I recommend these kind of straps for securing the battery (actually I think Voile Strap is the original, but a bit more expensive). They strech just enough to make a snug fit, but are still quite robust and easy to remove. I have a generic 'shark' battery attached to water bottle mounts, but I use three straps to make it suitable for rough off road riding.

JohnAnanda   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by JohnAnanda » Mar 13 2021 12:04pm

Hi, first post here )

Speaking about battery cases, I stumbled upon a nice design someone has made :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJK2sumRNJw&t=1s

He managed to fit a 13S6P in there.. It gave me inspiration for my next build and I think I will make a smaller 18650 14S3P (or maybe a 21700 14S2P) in the same location, with the case made in Kepler style : viewtopic.php?f=14&t=65719&hilit=close+packed+18650

What's interesting with this design, besides the aesthetics, is that is easily allows to fit a second battery in the triangle for extended range if needed.

Manbeer   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Manbeer » Mar 14 2021 9:11am

^not to mention placing the bulk of the weight down low. That looks sick

SlowCo   1 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by SlowCo » Mar 14 2021 4:36pm

JohnAnanda wrote:
Mar 13 2021 12:04pm
Hi, first post here )

Speaking about battery cases, I stumbled upon a nice design someone has made :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJK2sumRNJw&t=1s

He managed to fit a 13S6P in there.. It gave me inspiration for my next build and I think I will make a smaller 18650 14S3P (or maybe a 21700 14S2P) in the same location, with the case made in Kepler style : viewtopic.php?f=14&t=65719&hilit=close+packed+18650

What's interesting with this design, besides the aesthetics, is that is easily allows to fit a second battery in the triangle for extended range if needed.
Manbeer wrote:
Mar 14 2021 9:11am
^not to mention placing the bulk of the weight down low. That looks sick
I ordered a 14S6P triangle pack (and made a protective box with steel wire frame to pull it up against the downtube) that fits above my BBS02B mid drive and just clears the front tire on full compression:

thumbnail_IMG-20210225-WA0001.jpg
thumbnail_IMG-20210225-WA0001.jpg (365.37 KiB) Viewed 447 times

This could also be copied for a TSDZ2 or other full suspension build of course. I wanted long range and low center of gravity for maneuverability at slow climbing speeds. Hopefully I can test that out when the lockdowns end...

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 14 2021 4:53pm

Image
SlowCo wrote:
Mar 14 2021 4:36pm
This could also be copied for a TSDZ2 or other full suspension build of course. I wanted long range and low center of gravity for maneuverability at slow climbing speeds. Hopefully I can test that out when the lockdowns end...
You bicycle is just the same model as mine from Decatlhon -- here notes of my TSDZ2 assembly: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ ... -commuting

But your frame seems to be like size M. At least my wife and my son, they have the same bicycle as me but with frame S and there I put a 14S2P battery pack just at the center of the frame, works very well!!

My EBike with 14S3P battery pack:
Image

My son EBike with 14S2P battery pack:
Image
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Mar 15 2021 3:12am

SlowCo wrote:
Mar 14 2021 4:36pm

thumbnail_IMG-20210225-WA0001.jpg


This could also be copied for a TSDZ2 or other full suspension build of course. I wanted long range and low center of gravity for maneuverability at slow climbing speeds. Hopefully I can test that out when the lockdowns end...
What saddle do you have on that bike?

SlowCo   1 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by SlowCo » Mar 15 2021 4:09am

dameri wrote:
Mar 15 2021 3:12am
What saddle do you have on that bike?
Lingmai zadel.jpg
Lingmai zadel.jpg (425.27 KiB) Viewed 393 times

It's a 34,5cm/13,5" wide (!) Lingmai seat: https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000117614331.html
There are stores that seem to sell them cheaper but they might be copies that aren't as good. I did reinforce/strengthen the underside to make the seat much more rigid for better support. Now it's ideal for me as I'm always in pain when sitting (handicapped).

Alternative stores:https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4001118188937.html(if you look at the photo's in the reviews it does seem they have been sent the original Lingmai seat)
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001431475205.html

SlowCo   1 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by SlowCo » Mar 15 2021 4:19am

casainho wrote:
Mar 14 2021 4:53pm
Your bicycle is just the same model as mine from Decatlhon -- here notes of my TSDZ2 assembly: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ ... -commuting

But your frame seems to be like size M. At least my wife and my son, they have the same bicycle as me but with frame S and there I put a 14S2P battery pack just at the center of the frame, works very well!!
Yes it is a Rockrider ST540S in size M from Decathlon: https://www.decathlon.nl/p/mountainbike ... 61&c=BLAUW
I think they are also built under the B'TWIN name by and for Decathlon but the bikes we get are named Rockrider instead.

I haven't been able to really test it yet but hope it will serve me well. How are the bikes in your family doing? Are you satisfied? It seems the price and quality are very decent.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 15 2021 4:48am

SlowCo wrote:
Mar 15 2021 4:19am
I haven't been able to really test it yet but hope it will serve me well. How are the bikes in your family doing? Are you satisfied? It seems the price and quality are very decent.
Mostly our rides around and I decided to go full suspension for us to have most comfortable riding possible.

And sometimes I do some MTB events on the mountains.

My next EBike to install TSDZ2 will be this mini cargo bike, that has the size of a regular bicycle and so I will be able to put on my car hitch rack: https://yoonitbikes.com/
Should cost over 3.200€ including the delivery BUT I have locally an old experienced manual bicycle frame manufacturer that will make the same bicycle for me but with some adjustments like using regular chain and regular gears and not that internal geared hub, including make sure that TSDZ2 will be installed on that frame, for around 2.000€.

And by the way, that bicycle has original electric motor version, that increases the costs +1.900€!! And am being looking at other cargo bikes and the price difference to be electric is around 1.800€ to 2.200€!! -- so I get a TSDZ2 and battery for 600€, huge savings!!

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Mar 15 2021 4:58am

SlowCo wrote:
Mar 15 2021 4:09am
dameri wrote:
Mar 15 2021 3:12am
What saddle do you have on that bike?
Lingmai zadel.jpg


It's a 34,5cm/13,5" wide (!) Lingmai seat: https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000117614331.html
There are stores that seem to sell them cheaper but they might be copies that aren't as good. I did reinforce/strengthen the underside to make the seat much more rigid for better support. Now it's ideal for me as I'm always in pain when sitting (handicapped).

Alternative stores:https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4001118188937.html(if you look at the photo's in the reviews it does seem they have been sent the original Lingmai seat)
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001431475205.html
Thank you. Your answer was very good. :bigthumb:

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